c5 - ride height
Discussion
UTH said:
Good point on the performance, it's not like I'm crying out for another 100bhp!
Where in Surrey are you? Good to know there's another Z06 owner in the county!
Where in Surrey are you? Good to know there's another Z06 owner in the county!
I am in Camberley.
My Z06 is a seven speed manual.
I did nt go for the performance package as I don t intend to track the car and I also prefer the cleaner look without the bigger spoiler and winglets, although I did specify the performance data recorder which I use as a dash cam.
PrinceRupert said:
Thanks for your responding to the thread and joining the conversation. Did you sell your car? If so, would you be willing to share for what price? It would be interesting to know if my present view on values is wildly out of kilter with reality. Though if as you say manual convertibles are very rare, perhaps it could indeed command a premium, and perhaps an auto C5 at the price I am willing to spend would be achievable.
It's difficult to get out and drive the cars, given lockdown, and the fact that so few cars are at dealers - I wouldn't want to test drive one that I wasn't reasonably keen on buying.
On spec, I think convertible is the key one, and being a decent well maintained example. I could live with an auto, and could live with most colours.
On budget, I could afford a C6. I would prefer to spend less on a C5, but if it really is the case that you can't get into a decent C5 for less than 17/18k, then I might as well get a C6 for a relatively small sum more.
On issues, doesn't seem there are too many, which is good to hear! There is also a specialist not too far from me, Ian Goss. If possible I would investigate a pre purchase inspection
No i didn't sell it, I decided I was making a rash decision driven by the ongoing covid restrictions and my own impatience! its a mega car and i do love it, I don't think i could ever replace it and I've invested significantly already in terms of maintenance etc, just got that feeling I'd seriously regret it if I let it go now.It's difficult to get out and drive the cars, given lockdown, and the fact that so few cars are at dealers - I wouldn't want to test drive one that I wasn't reasonably keen on buying.
On spec, I think convertible is the key one, and being a decent well maintained example. I could live with an auto, and could live with most colours.
On budget, I could afford a C6. I would prefer to spend less on a C5, but if it really is the case that you can't get into a decent C5 for less than 17/18k, then I might as well get a C6 for a relatively small sum more.
On issues, doesn't seem there are too many, which is good to hear! There is also a specialist not too far from me, Ian Goss. If possible I would investigate a pre purchase inspection
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 5th January 23:34
In terms of values its a difficult one to answer really when a car is so niche and in short supply, I think you could find something in the right circumstance but obviously you know from what's out there at the moment you're at the lower end of the spread as to what people are generally asking, so it may not come easy.
Manual convertibles are thin on the ground from my experience, in fact they don't come up for sale in the states all that often, I'd be fascinated to know how many are actually in the UK. the other issue you may find with convertibles is there was some dodgy hood & paint combos at the time! The cars with white/red/beige roofs are an acquired taste I would say. I think all things considered if you worked on either a manual coupe or an auto convertible you'd have a much greater chance of success of finding something that meets most of your criteria.
Well maintained - I saw you mentioned this and in my view this is key, C5's have some common issues but in my opinion (and whilst I'll admit I'm a little OTT) I think they're generally under maintained. At circa 20 years old & regardless of mileage, basic servicing maintenance isn't good enough if you want the car to be right, it needs to be preventative, which doesn't seem to be happening on many I see for sale.
Here are a few bits I'd be on the look out for;
These are what I'd describe as more common C5 issues - rocking seats, HVAC dim/temp not adjusting, water ingress seals and door hinges, oil pressure sender fault, failing headlamp gears, coolant header tank leak, harmonic balancer wobbling, leaking steering rack, seat foams failing, failed side bolster bladders, broken sunvisors, EBCM/BMPV faults, HUD height adjuster fault.
And what I think you'll find quite often that I'd put down more to lack of maintenance - old, low quality tyres, TPMS sensor failure, aircon not working, original shock absorbers - these cars came from factory with runflats, though thankfully most don't have them now, but leaving them on the original old shocks after ditching the runflats doesn't work great! Serviced with wrong engine oil/oil filter used, old belts, manual specific - gearbox/diff oils not changed, clutch fluid not bled.
On top of your required spec I'd suggest you'd want one with as many of these items ticked off as either not faulty or replaced. You could easily be in for 4k plus of work if the majority of these issues are present.
Bonuses
Good quality non droning aftermarket exhaust
Z51 optioned suspension (standard is FE1)
Suspension bushes/ball joints/engine mounts replaced
I think the one you found in Northern Ireland would be worth getting some more info on, if you can get on with the spec, and of course can get round getti it over here!
Keith at Eurovettes had a silver auto convertible a little while back, not sure if he still has that. He knows these cars very well so i'd expect it to be a good one, think it was a 2004 with 90k miles and up for 16k or so.
daniel-5zjw7 said:
No i didn't sell it, I decided I was making a rash decision driven by the ongoing covid restrictions and my own impatience! its a mega car and i do love it, I don't think i could ever replace it and I've invested significantly already in terms of maintenance etc, just got that feeling I'd seriously regret it if I let it go now.
The issue for me is when i look at things that id consider a worth while upgrade from my C5, i always end up looking at cars worth at least double the value.For £15K i have a car thats as quick as i could ever realistically need, provides bags of drama, is comfortable and which costs very little to run for the performance.
An Evora may just about tempt me out.
Benbay001 said:
The issue for me is when i look at things that id consider a worth while upgrade from my C5, i always end up looking at cars worth at least double the value.
For £15K i have a car thats as quick as i could ever realistically need, provides bags of drama, is comfortable and which costs very little to run for the performance.
An Evora may just about tempt me out.
Certainly my conclusion - if you want a big engined two seat sports car at 20k or under your choices are Corvette or TVR. One is a reliable mainstream vehicle. One was built in a shed in Blackpool. I like the idea of owning a TVR. Not sure id like owning one...For £15K i have a car thats as quick as i could ever realistically need, provides bags of drama, is comfortable and which costs very little to run for the performance.
An Evora may just about tempt me out.
The car Eurovettes has for sale here
https://www.facebook.com/groups/153964465166335/pe...
It says 17k but he has offered it for 16k on other posts
https://www.facebook.com/groups/153964465166335/pe...
It says 17k but he has offered it for 16k on other posts
Yea agreed, i really like a TVR, and while some comparisons can be drawn, when it comes to all round usability they're very different propositions.
If you chuck in manual v8 sports car the next step really is a V8 vantage or R8. Different leagues in terms of buy in and running costs.
I know you said about not wanting to view one your not reasonably interested in buying but when conditions allow Keiths car wouldnt be a bad place to start, he certainly knows his stuff and seems a honest guy from the dealings I've had with him, so I'd expect the car to be there or thereabouts and if nothing else should give you a firm idea if a C5 is something you want to pursue.
If you chuck in manual v8 sports car the next step really is a V8 vantage or R8. Different leagues in terms of buy in and running costs.
I know you said about not wanting to view one your not reasonably interested in buying but when conditions allow Keiths car wouldnt be a bad place to start, he certainly knows his stuff and seems a honest guy from the dealings I've had with him, so I'd expect the car to be there or thereabouts and if nothing else should give you a firm idea if a C5 is something you want to pursue.
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Yea agreed, i really like a TVR, and while some comparisons can be drawn, when it comes to all round usability they're very different propositions.
If you chuck in manual v8 sports car the next step really is a V8 vantage or R8. Different leagues in terms of buy in and running costs.
I know you said about not wanting to view one your not reasonably interested in buying but when conditions allow Keiths car wouldnt be a bad place to start, he certainly knows his stuff and seems a honest guy from the dealings I've had with him, so I'd expect the car to be there or thereabouts and if nothing else should give you a firm idea if a C5 is something you want to pursue.
Thanks. Yes it looks a good car would want some pictures of the "minor" cosmetic issues (they're often not minor...) and to find out how much it is to sort the chromed wheel (sure I read somewhere they're very expensive to sort?). 16k isn't cheap but at the same time is probably fair for a late car from a specialist dealer. He is only an hour away from me so maybe worth a trip once lockdown is lifted.If you chuck in manual v8 sports car the next step really is a V8 vantage or R8. Different leagues in terms of buy in and running costs.
I know you said about not wanting to view one your not reasonably interested in buying but when conditions allow Keiths car wouldnt be a bad place to start, he certainly knows his stuff and seems a honest guy from the dealings I've had with him, so I'd expect the car to be there or thereabouts and if nothing else should give you a firm idea if a C5 is something you want to pursue.
Yea that wheel needs replacing imo. But Keith should be well placed to sort afterall as well as the other issues. It will be polished aluminium/laquered btw not chrome.
Forgot to mention also the arb droplinks are plastic originally. Moog do metal ones which are whats needed really, many cars should have these by now. Also a good 12v battery is required, so worth checking on the age/make of the one fitted.
Forgot to mention also the arb droplinks are plastic originally. Moog do metal ones which are whats needed really, many cars should have these by now. Also a good 12v battery is required, so worth checking on the age/make of the one fitted.
Benbay001 said:
My Z06 scrapes on everything.
It has a front air dam which is spring loaded. Its the airdam that scrapes and not the bumper.
It sounds horrible but is actually just damaging a bit of the car designed to rub.
Someone will correct me if im wrong.
As for price, mine is a red 2002 Z06 which had 38000 miles on it, but had a Carfax report for flood damage in 2004. I paid £15000. No idea whether i over or under paid but the car was pristine (other than a mark on the bonnet)
I missed this, your z06 looks awesome! It looks quite low to me so not surprised it scrapes everything! But as you say the airdam is designed for it. Is it still on standard bolts or aftermarket ones? It has a front air dam which is spring loaded. Its the airdam that scrapes and not the bumper.
It sounds horrible but is actually just damaging a bit of the car designed to rub.
Someone will correct me if im wrong.
As for price, mine is a red 2002 Z06 which had 38000 miles on it, but had a Carfax report for flood damage in 2004. I paid £15000. No idea whether i over or under paid but the car was pristine (other than a mark on the bonnet)
Sounds like you did very well getting that for what you did, only thing is when you do sell it I'd get some good pics of the underside, as long as you can show that its tidy underneath then 16/17 years on I personally wouldn't see an issue with the flood damage.
daniel-5zjw7 said:
I missed this, your z06 looks awesome! It looks quite low to me so not surprised it scrapes everything! But as you say the airdam is designed for it. Is it still on standard bolts or aftermarket ones?
Sounds like you did very well getting that for what you did, only thing is when you do sell it I'd get some good pics of the underside, as long as you can show that its tidy underneath then 16/17 years on I personally wouldn't see an issue with the flood damage.
Thank you.Sounds like you did very well getting that for what you did, only thing is when you do sell it I'd get some good pics of the underside, as long as you can show that its tidy underneath then 16/17 years on I personally wouldn't see an issue with the flood damage.
I believe its standard height. Apparently it used to be even lower, but the previous owner lifted it back up.
Its a good question and one i will check out come spring time (its parked for winter).
Its incredibly tidy underneath. The joys of plastic body and galvanised frames i guess.
PrinceRupert said:
This is turning into C5 / C6 market watch.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11141246?c...
Just appeared on PH. Some sort of odd auction website, 14k seems a lot for 160k miles, but it is a lovely colour and photographs well.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010235...
This one has been slowly dropping in price for some time.
The auction car above didn't sell. It turns out it was misadvertised at 150k miles when it was in fact 150k km which is 90k miles, as it is a Japanese import. It appears to have not reached its reserve after bidding reached £10,360. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11141246?c...
Just appeared on PH. Some sort of odd auction website, 14k seems a lot for 160k miles, but it is a lovely colour and photographs well.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010235...
This one has been slowly dropping in price for some time.
There is now a detailed advert - https://www.tradeclassics.com/auctions/chevrolet/1... - which makes it appear an honest and well loved if not perfect car. Given it is a very early car, wonder what would represent good value. I do like the colour. 12k? Might be worth a message to the seller...
PrinceRupert said:
The auction car above didn't sell. It turns out it was misadvertised at 150k miles when it was in fact 150k km which is 90k miles, as it is a Japanese import. It appears to have not reached its reserve after bidding reached £10,360.
There is now a detailed advert - https://www.tradeclassics.com/auctions/chevrolet/1... - which makes it appear an honest and well loved if not perfect car. Given it is a very early car, wonder what would represent good value. I do like the colour. 12k? Might be worth a message to the seller...
Do you plan on modding?There is now a detailed advert - https://www.tradeclassics.com/auctions/chevrolet/1... - which makes it appear an honest and well loved if not perfect car. Given it is a very early car, wonder what would represent good value. I do like the colour. 12k? Might be worth a message to the seller...
1997 and 98 Model Years have slightly different heads and bolt spacing. Not a deal breaker, but might be something to consider if you plan on doing anything like a head and cam upgrade.
Only real way you can establish the model year for sure is to check the VIN then Google how to decode it for the model year (lots of info on the vaiour s LS1/Vette forums). In the UK we don't really use model years and tend to go on registration year or the year it entered the country, which might not be the same thing.
If you don't plan to mod, then it'll make no real odds.
300bhp/ton said:
Do you plan on modding?
1997 and 98 Model Years have slightly different heads and bolt spacing. Not a deal breaker, but might be something to consider if you plan on doing anything like a head and cam upgrade.
Only real way you can establish the model year for sure is to check the VIN then Google how to decode it for the model year (lots of info on the vaiour s LS1/Vette forums). In the UK we don't really use model years and tend to go on registration year or the year it entered the country, which might not be the same thing.
If you don't plan to mod, then it'll make no real odds.
No probably wouldn't do engine mods, but thanks for the info. I understand the early cars don't have some nice to haves like the HUD. Not sure if there is anything else they lack? 1997 and 98 Model Years have slightly different heads and bolt spacing. Not a deal breaker, but might be something to consider if you plan on doing anything like a head and cam upgrade.
Only real way you can establish the model year for sure is to check the VIN then Google how to decode it for the model year (lots of info on the vaiour s LS1/Vette forums). In the UK we don't really use model years and tend to go on registration year or the year it entered the country, which might not be the same thing.
If you don't plan to mod, then it'll make no real odds.
I just asked the chap what he would let it go for. He said 12k + the auction houses fee, whatever that is ...
EDIT: Auction house charges a buyer premium of 20% + VAT i.e. £720
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 12th January 17:04
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 12th January 17:06
Thanks.
mark387mw said:
Auto with a fancy aftermarket gaiter?
Get a car with the heads up, it’s a nice extra.
Yup, I'd like HUD, but few cars for sale and at 12k, this one could be good value? Or would 16k for a 2004 with similar mileage be better value (i.e. the Eurovettes car). I prefer the blue of this car to the silver of the Eurovettes one (which I've noticed isn't for sale on their website, so might be an attempt to sell it as a private sale?). Get a car with the heads up, it’s a nice extra.
Good honest write up & video and looks a decent spec car, in fact it has pretty much every option for the year i think including the magnesium wheels which were a an expensive option.
It's clearly spent some money on it, gearbox overhaul/lcm5 module/dunlop tyres/exhaust, aircon working, brake fluid, coolant and engine oil changed, silicone rad hoses etc. but it looks a bit rough round the edges, sunvisors broken, no remote fob, seat motor broken, no mention of harmonic balancer replaced, seat covers and foams dead, random black wheel centres and huge spacers, HVAC issue etc
Other points to note;
Steering wheel adjustment only up and down, not telescopic don't think it was an option on the early cars
I *think* this car has the rear mounted EBCM, as far as i know this cannot be retrofitted with a 01-04 EBCM so if it was to fail your only option is a second hand like for like, though supposedly the earlier EBCM's are less prone to failure in the first place.
The exhaust has no rear silencers at all.. which iprobably sounds pretty good but I'd be amazed if it isn't drone city at higher speeds.
I don't see any handbooks/owners wallet in the docs pics.
What I'd like to see is a photo of the the inside of the glovebox lid as this shows the option codes, we want to see if it has Z51 suspension and also the Performance axle ratio (3.15 is the performance ratio, 2.73 is standard)
HUD is tricky, I love it on mine, however it can have its issues and its a full on dash out repair generally to fix, also it needs a particular windscreen, finding a replacement windscreen for a HUD car in the UK may not be that easy.. so it depends on the individual but certainly pros and cons to each!
In reality it needs a few grand spending on it to really tidy it up, but has potential to be a pretty nice car. I saw on the website that it looked like the company selling it was advising 12,995 inclusive? so guess that includes their fee?
It's clearly spent some money on it, gearbox overhaul/lcm5 module/dunlop tyres/exhaust, aircon working, brake fluid, coolant and engine oil changed, silicone rad hoses etc. but it looks a bit rough round the edges, sunvisors broken, no remote fob, seat motor broken, no mention of harmonic balancer replaced, seat covers and foams dead, random black wheel centres and huge spacers, HVAC issue etc
Other points to note;
Steering wheel adjustment only up and down, not telescopic don't think it was an option on the early cars
I *think* this car has the rear mounted EBCM, as far as i know this cannot be retrofitted with a 01-04 EBCM so if it was to fail your only option is a second hand like for like, though supposedly the earlier EBCM's are less prone to failure in the first place.
The exhaust has no rear silencers at all.. which iprobably sounds pretty good but I'd be amazed if it isn't drone city at higher speeds.
I don't see any handbooks/owners wallet in the docs pics.
What I'd like to see is a photo of the the inside of the glovebox lid as this shows the option codes, we want to see if it has Z51 suspension and also the Performance axle ratio (3.15 is the performance ratio, 2.73 is standard)
HUD is tricky, I love it on mine, however it can have its issues and its a full on dash out repair generally to fix, also it needs a particular windscreen, finding a replacement windscreen for a HUD car in the UK may not be that easy.. so it depends on the individual but certainly pros and cons to each!
In reality it needs a few grand spending on it to really tidy it up, but has potential to be a pretty nice car. I saw on the website that it looked like the company selling it was advising 12,995 inclusive? so guess that includes their fee?
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Good honest write up & video and looks a decent spec car, in fact it has pretty much every option for the year i think including the magnesium wheels which were a an expensive option.
It's clearly spent some money on it, gearbox overhaul/lcm5 module/dunlop tyres/exhaust, aircon working, brake fluid, coolant and engine oil changed, silicone rad hoses etc. but it looks a bit rough round the edges, sunvisors broken, no remote fob, seat motor broken, no mention of harmonic balancer replaced, seat covers and foams dead, random black wheel centres and huge spacers, HVAC issue etc
Other points to note;
Steering wheel adjustment only up and down, not telescopic don't think it was an option on the early cars
I *think* this car has the rear mounted EBCM, as far as i know this cannot be retrofitted with a 01-04 EBCM so if it was to fail your only option is a second hand like for like, though supposedly the earlier EBCM's are less prone to failure in the first place.
The exhaust has no rear silencers at all.. which iprobably sounds pretty good but I'd be amazed if it isn't drone city at higher speeds.
I don't see any handbooks/owners wallet in the docs pics.
What I'd like to see is a photo of the the inside of the glovebox lid as this shows the option codes, we want to see if it has Z51 suspension and also the Performance axle ratio (3.15 is the performance ratio, 2.73 is standard)
HUD is tricky, I love it on mine, however it can have its issues and its a full on dash out repair generally to fix, also it needs a particular windscreen, finding a replacement windscreen for a HUD car in the UK may not be that easy.. so it depends on the individual but certainly pros and cons to each!
In reality it needs a few grand spending on it to really tidy it up, but has potential to be a pretty nice car. I saw on the website that it looked like the company selling it was advising 12,995 inclusive? so guess that includes their fee?
Thanks for that information, super useful. It's clearly spent some money on it, gearbox overhaul/lcm5 module/dunlop tyres/exhaust, aircon working, brake fluid, coolant and engine oil changed, silicone rad hoses etc. but it looks a bit rough round the edges, sunvisors broken, no remote fob, seat motor broken, no mention of harmonic balancer replaced, seat covers and foams dead, random black wheel centres and huge spacers, HVAC issue etc
Other points to note;
Steering wheel adjustment only up and down, not telescopic don't think it was an option on the early cars
I *think* this car has the rear mounted EBCM, as far as i know this cannot be retrofitted with a 01-04 EBCM so if it was to fail your only option is a second hand like for like, though supposedly the earlier EBCM's are less prone to failure in the first place.
The exhaust has no rear silencers at all.. which iprobably sounds pretty good but I'd be amazed if it isn't drone city at higher speeds.
I don't see any handbooks/owners wallet in the docs pics.
What I'd like to see is a photo of the the inside of the glovebox lid as this shows the option codes, we want to see if it has Z51 suspension and also the Performance axle ratio (3.15 is the performance ratio, 2.73 is standard)
HUD is tricky, I love it on mine, however it can have its issues and its a full on dash out repair generally to fix, also it needs a particular windscreen, finding a replacement windscreen for a HUD car in the UK may not be that easy.. so it depends on the individual but certainly pros and cons to each!
In reality it needs a few grand spending on it to really tidy it up, but has potential to be a pretty nice car. I saw on the website that it looked like the company selling it was advising 12,995 inclusive? so guess that includes their fee?
Yes agreed on the slightly rough around the edges, it isn't concourse, which is why I wonder at what price would it represent good value. Perhaps 11-12k might be the sweet spot? I think 13k is steep as for a few grand more i could get a much later car. These cars don't seem likely to get much lower than 10k in the UK even for rough examples, and this one doesn't seem rough mechanically at least - the seats are probably the worst bit. I haven't seen anything out there that looks half decent any cheaper that's for sure ...
I posted a thread on CCUK, the chap turned up to comment. Apparently both UK owners have been CCUK members. The 129995 includes their fee. Given they failed to sell his car and advertised it as 150k miles rather than km i do wonder whether he would be willing to / can make a deal without involving them and avoid their fee... given it seems it is still a private sale in his possession than a dealer car.
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 12th January 22:59
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 12th January 23:06
Not really sure tbh, I think it depends on your personal preference, would you rather get a car as cheap as possible knowing it needs work or spend extra initially to buy one mostly done? (my view is that given the age any C5 should be considered an ongoing project, albeit there are varying levels!), if the former suits you better i think anywhere around the 12-13k mark seems OK for this one, though note I think you could be in it for around 16k on this basis by the time you've really got on top of it.
In terms of these auction sites I'm guessing you have to agree to some sort of contract that once consigned the sale needs to go through the auction company, i don't tend to see cars for sale through collecting cars/car and classic for sale anywhere else once they're going through the auction process, but there must be a limit somewhere, especially as they didn't get his reserve for him so surely he can revert to a private sale at some point.
I think you can definitely try to negotiate on the seats/seat motor/no remote fob etc as these will not be cheap things to sort.
In terms of these auction sites I'm guessing you have to agree to some sort of contract that once consigned the sale needs to go through the auction company, i don't tend to see cars for sale through collecting cars/car and classic for sale anywhere else once they're going through the auction process, but there must be a limit somewhere, especially as they didn't get his reserve for him so surely he can revert to a private sale at some point.
I think you can definitely try to negotiate on the seats/seat motor/no remote fob etc as these will not be cheap things to sort.
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