Superlight R Caterham with Honda 2.0VTec K20 complete re bui

[dsl2]

Thanks for sharing that info Terry, all interesting stuff especially the overall weight.

Be very interesting to see how my Juno Duratec compares to an identical Juno fitted with a fully tuned Clockwork motion Honda.

[van cleef]

What type of Diff are you using as correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the K20 spin in the opposite direction compared with a K series?

[sundance002]

van cleef said:

What type of Diff are you using as correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the K20 spin in the opposite direction compared with a K series?

The very first engine years ago ran anti clockwise, all the K20s run clockwise, At the moment it has a R500 lsd re built, but that is being changed soon.

[sam919]

Whats everyones general concensous about this conversion, i think it really does make sense even in a lesser tuned form. Does anyone have any real concerns about it? Apart from being a little non by the caterham book to install, requires OOTB thinking.............apologies, out of the box!? David Brent office style acronym!

[JeffC]

my pal had a standard S2000 motor in his westy and I didnt rate it,he used the standard 6 speed Honda box and experimented with a few diff ratios but just couldnt get it to work, just seemed to rev and go no where, after driving his personally I wouldnt swap a duratec for one and defo not a high powered duratec .

then I watch this guy with one in his westfield with a good gearbox (Drenth DG 400 Sequential) and he can seriously make it move!!!! watch his other vids he is entertaining to say the least.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY3mMNlMFWw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv-mCxx1V90&fea...

Edited by JeffC on Friday 3rd May 18:24

[sam919]

He can peddle that thing about! What it does look like is the last 1500 revs is where it all is, anything lower and the torque isnt making thing easy for him. Chatting to a couple of folk, you can leave out the VVC bit maybe for a F20 for all the top end oomf, this could be the route this guy has gone down. Of course if you get an ECU that can accommodate the VVC then its more usable across the range.

The S2000 box i hear has ratios that are too long, so closer ratios/ final drive is needed.....as throughout the above its been a lot of hearing and taking in what others have done, so the jury is still out....but i like the idea of the actual engine side of things being 'easier on the pocket' in 240 ish form.

Apologies to the OP for high jacking this thread a bit! but i find the conversion intriguing!

[sam919]

Woopsie, 'VTC' not 'VVC'

[James.S]

JeffC said:

my pal had a standard S2000 motor in his westy and I didnt rate it,he used the standard 6 speed Honda box and experimented with a few diff ratios but just couldnt get it to work, just seemed to rev and go no where, after driving his personally I wouldnt swap a duratec for one and defo not a high powered duratec .

then I watch this guy with one in his westfield with a good gearbox (Drenth DG 400 Sequential) and he can seriously make it move!!!! watch his other vids he is entertaining to say the least.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY3mMNlMFWw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv-mCxx1V90&fea...

Wow....that's some special driving.

BAck on topic though, Stuast Faulds did a nice conversion for Rich McCann, really handy driver nad plenty of track miles under its belt. Followed it around Spa and Ring and proper rapid. You can contact him through outofthecity dot com.

Edited by JeffC on Friday 3rd May 18:24

[letterkenny]

I have a friend who had a ground up build from a bare chassis with a K20a. I have had a few DC5s and am a huge fan of this engine. The finished product is awesome (been around Donnington in it). I am a huge fan. That said when the build was commissioned the duratec was not in wide circulation. I am led to believe that the person who built it suggested he would not do it again as the build involved so much custom work that a duratec would be a much easier proposition and the components required are now easily available whereas a lot of the K20a installation required custom components. He felt that the results would be similar with much less work/cost.

That said the car in this thread looks fantastic with a meticulous build and as stated the K20a is probably my favourite engine (sevens/elises etc). Much car envy going on from this blogger!!

[letterkenny]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the Caterham six speed gearbox in my friends K20a has held up but been through 3 clutches in 18 months and now has AP racing one, standard clutch seems to get overwhelmed by the power.

[sundance002]

sam919 said:

He can peddle that thing about! What it does look like is the last 1500 revs is where it all is, anything lower and the torque isnt making thing easy for him. Chatting to a couple of folk, you can leave out the VVC bit maybe for a F20 for all the top end oomf, this could be the route this guy has gone down. Of course if you get an ECU that can accommodate the VVC then its more usable across the range.

The S2000 box i hear has ratios that are too long, so closer ratios/ final drive is needed.....as throughout the above its been a lot of hearing and taking in what others have done, so the jury is still out....but i like the idea of the actual engine side of things being 'easier on the pocket' in 240 ish form.

Apologies to the OP for high jacking this thread a bit! but i find the conversion intriguing!

Hi Sam, I fitted the Life F88 ecu, which gives total control of VVC and mine is set to come in early, so I have loads of torque
from 2500k all the way to 9k, as yo can see from the graphs, the power doesnt just full off.
I have found the Caterham 6sp box works really well with the AP twin plate clutch , no slipping and no wear so far,
the single plate clutch, didnt work at all, was continuously slipping even in fifth, with the spigot bearing we fitted with the clutch its been fautless..

[sundance002]

letterkenny said:

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the Caterham six speed gearbox in my friends K20a has held up but been through 3 clutches in 18 months and now has AP racing one, standard clutch seems to get overwhelmed by the power.

Yep had the same problem 2clutches in so many weeks, twin plate is the only way if you like to drive on the road and the track, tripple plate for track only would be my way forward, but then again I would then add the paddle shift and seq box

[sundance002]

[quote=letterkenny]I have a friend who had a ground up build from a bare chassis with a K20a. I have had a few DC5s and am a huge fan of this engine. The finished product is awesome (been around Donnington in it). I am a huge fan. That said when the build was commissioned the duratec was not in wide circulation. I am led to believe that the person who built it suggested he would not do it again as the build involved so much custom work that a duratec would be a much easier proposition and the components required are now easily available whereas a lot of the K20a installation required custom components. He felt that the results would be similar with much less work/cost.

Yes it is a difficult marriage to get right, but when you do, IMO and I have driven many 250 Duratecs, I would not go back, its a different car and unbelievable quick with low running costs compared to a Duratec.
We now make all the parts to make the installation possible so not such a difficult install anymore.
Im back in the Uk next week, so if anyone would like to come and see for themselves drop me an email and we can make sone arrangements.
I also run a 650bhp Noble and the Cat keeps up.

[letterkenny]

sundance002]etterkenny said:

I have a friend who had a ground up build from a bare chassis with a K20a. I have had a few DC5s and am a huge fan of this engine. The finished product is awesome (been around Donnington in it). I am a huge fan. That said when the build was commissioned the duratec was not in wide circulation. I am led to believe that the person who built it suggested he would not do it again as the build involved so much custom work that a duratec would be a much easier proposition and the components required are now easily available whereas a lot of the K20a installation required custom components. He felt that the results would be similar with much less work/cost.

Yes it is a difficult marriage to get right, but when you do, IMO and I have driven many 250 Duratecs, I would not go back, its a different car and unbelievable quick with low running costs compared to a Duratec.
We now make all the parts to make the installation possible so not such a difficult install anymore.
Im back in the Uk next week, so if anyone would like to come and see for themselves drop me an email and we can make sone arrangements.
I also run a 650bhp Noble and the Cat keeps up.

Hmm .. how had would it be to convince SWMBO that this is a necessity!! What do you think a conversion would cost all in (minus a second hand engine I guess)??

[sundance002]

letterkenny said:

Hmm .. how had would it be to convince SWMBO that this is a necessity!! What do you think a conversion would cost all in (minus a second hand engine I guess)??

Not sure I understand the question, but depending on what stage you want to go to, and you supplying the Superlight R car and chassis with 6sp box,, engine fully built stage 1, clutch re developed, bellhousing, life88 ecu and racing loom + connectors, AT throttle bodies designed for the car and engine, pretty much like for like on this Caterham but less power 250bhp, fitted and ready to go, I would think around 15 to 18k so total around 35k for a 600bhpt car that will be bullit proof and run 2 seasons before a re build, with no problems, and drives and sounds superb. for me it made good sense, but you need to drive one to really appreciate its value.

[dsl2]

Sundance re-reading the thread trying to get a handle on the weight thing you mention earlier the engine & transmission weigh 385lbs (175kg) later on then Terry says the complete engine comes in around 97kg.

I don't have any figures for the Caterham Box but can't see it weighing much more than what say 30-32kg? that leaves a hell of a lot of extra weight to account for somewhere?

Were there other components included in your 385lb figure?

Edited by dsl2 on Saturday 4th May 19:54

[sundance002]

dsl2 said:

Sundance re-reading the thread trying to get a handle on the weight thing you mention earlier the engine & transmission weigh 385lbs (175kg) later on then Terry says the complete engine comes in around 97kg.

I don't have any figures for the Caterham Box but can't see it weighing much more than what say 30-32kg? that leaves a hell of a lot of extra weight to account for somewhere?

Were there other components included in your 385lb figure?

Edited by dsl2 on Saturday 4th May 19:54

Sorry just re read it, was supposed to say 285lb incl throttle bodies, clutch, etc

[dsl2]

Ah ha, makes more sense!

[sam919]

Some more good info, thanks. It would be interesting to see some shots of the install, if there not too secret! So much swinging in this direction now, i see Cosworth are stating a 3000 race mile service by approved Mr Smith even for their crate engines?! At a lap speed of say 90mph for Croft, thats er....33.3 hours, so you could equate it to:

8 x 1 hour meeting 2 x race + 1 x qualy = 8 hours

So that could be 4 seasons with no practise which aint bad.


If you do say 10 track days at 3 hours each thats the same 30 odd hours.


If your a petrol nutter and do racing plus track days:

2 x seasons 16 hours plus 5 track days @ 3 hours. = 32 odd.

Tought one, but what would a honda do, seeing as a re-fresh/ strip could be a couple of grand based on what i have been quoted, very parts and wear dependant .

[sam919]

James.S said:

James, cheers ill give him a mail