Going slowly in a Caterham
Discussion
My thoughts/experience:
Keep your 7 for the track - but share the car on trackdays with a mate = another person to share the guilt of indulging in a selfish activity which often precludes family/kids involvement. Full cage / no screen / paddle clutch etc- makes for a real faff and not much fun to drive slowly on road. But mega value for performance - don't think could ever sell. As per previous poster - enjoy the car with friends to get most out of it. Downgrading to one with less power to me does not solve inherent problems of poor visibility / practicality etc and although in fairness i've have fond memories of slower 7's on less sticky tyres for lower speed thrills.
To replace 7's role on road - 2 weeks ago ended up with a friends mk1 mx5 - eyeing up Rocketeer alloy v6 3.0 jag conversion. Should make an engaging fun/sonorous road Q car at much lower speeds than 7 - to this end want to keep narrow rim width
You have a responsibility if you have kids to keep your v.fast 7 on road. I'm glad when I was a kid "irresponsible" adults took me out in fast cars and exercised their own judgement to determine what speed was appropriate for the conditions - how else can you develop an irrepressible enthusiasm for silly cars/bikes through out life?
I see you have a beautiful warmed up stepnose Alfa - clearly a man with first world problems and already with a sublime road car
Edited to remove daft 250/300 2t enduro bike suggestion - lwt 7 type thrills at lowish speeds on and off road
Keep your 7 for the track - but share the car on trackdays with a mate = another person to share the guilt of indulging in a selfish activity which often precludes family/kids involvement. Full cage / no screen / paddle clutch etc- makes for a real faff and not much fun to drive slowly on road. But mega value for performance - don't think could ever sell. As per previous poster - enjoy the car with friends to get most out of it. Downgrading to one with less power to me does not solve inherent problems of poor visibility / practicality etc and although in fairness i've have fond memories of slower 7's on less sticky tyres for lower speed thrills.
To replace 7's role on road - 2 weeks ago ended up with a friends mk1 mx5 - eyeing up Rocketeer alloy v6 3.0 jag conversion. Should make an engaging fun/sonorous road Q car at much lower speeds than 7 - to this end want to keep narrow rim width
You have a responsibility if you have kids to keep your v.fast 7 on road. I'm glad when I was a kid "irresponsible" adults took me out in fast cars and exercised their own judgement to determine what speed was appropriate for the conditions - how else can you develop an irrepressible enthusiasm for silly cars/bikes through out life?
I see you have a beautiful warmed up stepnose Alfa - clearly a man with first world problems and already with a sublime road car
Edited to remove daft 250/300 2t enduro bike suggestion - lwt 7 type thrills at lowish speeds on and off road
Edited by rossb on Tuesday 9th May 06:36
Edited by rossb on Tuesday 9th May 09:31
I really don't understand this... maybe the OP lives in the wrong place to drive a 7?
I have a quickish car, 200hp albeit with the much maligned (wrongly IMO) 5spd, its a joy to drive on the road- it bangs and pops with wonderous theatre as you bimble through a village, kids whoop and point at the howl from the carbs, when you reach a NSL sign its redline-howl-overtake-point and squirt through the lanes or (traffic depending) drift along smelling the fields and listening the countryside as only an open car (any open car to be fair) can give you.
Spent 25miles "following" a new BMW M235i the other day, he was Very much pushing on, no sigthlines sufficient to pass him but was great entertainment maintaining contact, he had the aero, suspension and legs to pull away beyond warp 8 but in the bends and out of them he was a sitting duck ;-)
Tracks are great but owning a car that only usable on 0.1% of the nations tarmac is abit self defeating unless its a racing car surely? I have a LSD, no particular shunting I'm aware of, the 7 is one of those rare multi-tool cars, a race car that's at home on the road, with a aeroscreen its practically a sports bike, throw the screen on and with a roof its almost civilized, you can even have a heater and it has a bloody boot FFS!! :-)
I have a quickish car, 200hp albeit with the much maligned (wrongly IMO) 5spd, its a joy to drive on the road- it bangs and pops with wonderous theatre as you bimble through a village, kids whoop and point at the howl from the carbs, when you reach a NSL sign its redline-howl-overtake-point and squirt through the lanes or (traffic depending) drift along smelling the fields and listening the countryside as only an open car (any open car to be fair) can give you.
Spent 25miles "following" a new BMW M235i the other day, he was Very much pushing on, no sigthlines sufficient to pass him but was great entertainment maintaining contact, he had the aero, suspension and legs to pull away beyond warp 8 but in the bends and out of them he was a sitting duck ;-)
Tracks are great but owning a car that only usable on 0.1% of the nations tarmac is abit self defeating unless its a racing car surely? I have a LSD, no particular shunting I'm aware of, the 7 is one of those rare multi-tool cars, a race car that's at home on the road, with a aeroscreen its practically a sports bike, throw the screen on and with a roof its almost civilized, you can even have a heater and it has a bloody boot FFS!! :-)
The roads in the countryside are in a terribly state. Bad for cycling along, worse for driving a seven on as you can't so easily avoid the pits/potholes.
The firm suspension means you're being thrown all over the place making it difficult to drive smoothly. I feel a holiday to France coming on.
The firm suspension means you're being thrown all over the place making it difficult to drive smoothly. I feel a holiday to France coming on.
My Seven has 6 speeds and 220bhp and whilst it gets a little fractious in stop start stuff- and my left leg gets hot - I find it just fine whether I am pressing on or pootling . I have always taken the view that every trip in a Seven is an event, often an adventure and after 80k miles plus in them nothing has changed my mind.
Roads bad- depends where you go- it was ever thus . There never was some halcyon past with billiard table smooth roads .
Busy ? Get up early or drive somewhere that isn't .
No places to pull v max in high gears ? I can only think of a couple where I wouldn't p
s off other people -but so what ? We have never had the open spaces of other countries. But what's it's matter? Threading a Seven briskly down a B road at vaguely legal speeds is huge fun and the sense of speed and engagement is unparalleled unless you drive something else so raw .
Roads bad- depends where you go- it was ever thus . There never was some halcyon past with billiard table smooth roads .
Busy ? Get up early or drive somewhere that isn't .
No places to pull v max in high gears ? I can only think of a couple where I wouldn't p
s off other people -but so what ? We have never had the open spaces of other countries. But what's it's matter? Threading a Seven briskly down a B road at vaguely legal speeds is huge fun and the sense of speed and engagement is unparalleled unless you drive something else so raw . First world problem here.
I can't really see the problem though. Driving a Caterham on the road is bound by the same rules as any other high performance car or bike. Personally I live for track days when I can unleash my car without worry of being fined, banned or prison. I do drive it on the road but tend to obey the speed limits but I don't find this makes the car less enjoyable. I don't particularly enjoy being stuck in traffic but the car handles it fine and you just have to be patient.
My pet hate is people who follow too close to the car in front and have no intention of ever overtaking. If you can't get past the whole queue in one go and have to cut in you generally get loads of flashing etc. If they left a suitable gap and/or looked in their mirror there wouldn't be a problem.
I can't really see the problem though. Driving a Caterham on the road is bound by the same rules as any other high performance car or bike. Personally I live for track days when I can unleash my car without worry of being fined, banned or prison. I do drive it on the road but tend to obey the speed limits but I don't find this makes the car less enjoyable. I don't particularly enjoy being stuck in traffic but the car handles it fine and you just have to be patient.
My pet hate is people who follow too close to the car in front and have no intention of ever overtaking. If you can't get past the whole queue in one go and have to cut in you generally get loads of flashing etc. If they left a suitable gap and/or looked in their mirror there wouldn't be a problem.
jimhcat said:
First world problem here.
I can't really see the problem though. Driving a Caterham on the road is bound by the same rules as any other high performance car or bike. Personally I live for track days when I can unleash my car without worry of being fined, banned or prison. I do drive it on the road but tend to obey the speed limits but I don't find this makes the car less enjoyable. I don't particularly enjoy being stuck in traffic but the car handles it fine and you just have to be patient.
My pet hate is people who follow too close to the car in front and have no intention of ever overtaking. If you can't get past the whole queue in one go and have to cut in you generally get loads of flashing etc. If they left a suitable gap and/or looked in their mirror there wouldn't be a problem.
It may well be a "first world problem", but given what the car <can> do from a performance perspective, my post was relating to the fact that even on "empty" roads, it's still frustrating having the power, etc but not really being in a position to use it. I imagine supercar owners have similar issues, but their cars, although a lot bigger on the road physically, could be considered less of a compromise (roof, aircon, etc, etc).I can't really see the problem though. Driving a Caterham on the road is bound by the same rules as any other high performance car or bike. Personally I live for track days when I can unleash my car without worry of being fined, banned or prison. I do drive it on the road but tend to obey the speed limits but I don't find this makes the car less enjoyable. I don't particularly enjoy being stuck in traffic but the car handles it fine and you just have to be patient.
My pet hate is people who follow too close to the car in front and have no intention of ever overtaking. If you can't get past the whole queue in one go and have to cut in you generally get loads of flashing etc. If they left a suitable gap and/or looked in their mirror there wouldn't be a problem.
Not a rant, more my thoughts.
I guess part of the "problem" is that when you develop yr 7 to work on track and you drive it to get same buzz on road your risk approach changes.20 yrs ago I did 18k miles in 12 months in my 1st 7 (whizzy x/flow with steel bits) went through 2 or 3 diffs + 2 cyl heads and had a cavalier approach to what I thought was acceptable on road - was my only car. 21 years later I'm more reserved as to my approach. Imagine OP with some other serious toys - track R1??!! - has a more relaxed view nowadays as to what he wants to do on road and today his track optimised 7 is a st compromise on road. Some years ago - he would not have given a flying fk. Time for a tartan blanket and review of dignitas prospectus ....only joking have fond memories of 7's which were less track focused on road
t compromise on road. Some years ago - he would not have given a flying fk. Time for a tartan blanket and review of dignitas prospectus ....only joking have fond memories of 7's which were less track focused on roadThat's why I ended up selling my Caterham. As a track car, they're great, but I wasn't doing enough track days for various reasons. As you say, opportunities to drive it 'properly' on the road are limited. I had two Caterhams over ten years and love them, but I wanted something more usable, more of the time. I ended up buying a 996, which is currently having an engine rebuild, but that's another story...
Fair enough.. but I think the 'properly' argument is kinda spurious - really you can't drive anything 'properly' on the road - certainly not the 996, nor my boring diesel commuting bus (as pointless as hussling it is, I could very easily get locked up).. heck even a basic stbox can be driven far too fast to be safe/sensible/avoid jail..
IMHO if you want to enjoy cars you need to find it somewhere a (long) way short of 10/10ths. If the 996 satisfies that, great (and not to pick on you, just as an example). For my part I find the 7 more fun at 3/10ths than I did the 986(s).. just because it's ridiculous, jiggly and so on - the 986 was too close to a 'normal car'.. but that's totally subjective.
tbox can be driven far too fast to be safe/sensible/avoid jail.. IMHO if you want to enjoy cars you need to find it somewhere a (long) way short of 10/10ths. If the 996 satisfies that, great (and not to pick on you, just as an example). For my part I find the 7 more fun at 3/10ths than I did the 986(s).. just because it's ridiculous, jiggly and so on - the 986 was too close to a 'normal car'.. but that's totally subjective.
upsidedownmark said:
Fair enough.. but I think the 'properly' argument is kinda spurious - really you can't drive anything 'properly' on the road - certainly not the 996, nor my boring diesel commuting bus (as pointless as hussling it is, I could very easily get locked up).. heck even a basic stbox can be driven far too fast to be safe/sensible/avoid jail..
IMHO if you want to enjoy cars you need to find it somewhere a (long) way short of 10/10ths. If the 996 satisfies that, great (and not to pick on you, just as an example). For my part I find the 7 more fun at 3/10ths than I did the 986(s).. just because it's ridiculous, jiggly and so on - the 986 was too close to a 'normal car'.. but that's totally subjective.
Who mentioned driving at 10/10ths on the road?. My point is, the opportunities to drive a Caterham at an 'enjoyable' speed on the road are few. It's almost like getting the 'perfect storm' - a clear-ish decent road in nice weather.tbox can be driven far too fast to be safe/sensible/avoid jail.. IMHO if you want to enjoy cars you need to find it somewhere a (long) way short of 10/10ths. If the 996 satisfies that, great (and not to pick on you, just as an example). For my part I find the 7 more fun at 3/10ths than I did the 986(s).. just because it's ridiculous, jiggly and so on - the 986 was too close to a 'normal car'.. but that's totally subjective.
Maybe the whole 'ridiculous and jiggly' novelty value of a Caterham wore off a long time ago. To me they just beg to be driven quickly. A poor ride, limited practicality and a quirky character can be a bit tedious when you're stuck in traffic doing 40 and it's starting to rain....
I get similar thoughts sometimes about getting something more comfortable and slower to get more use out of it to work etc on better days but not be in fear of having to pop to meetings/site etc.
However, (and this may sound daft) but have you tried the car with half hood?
I find it transforms the car.
I often don't feel like the complete rush on the senses on the way to work in the morning when I take the Caterham. However, putting the half hood on I find the car feels much more 'normal' and can drive as such.
Granted the 6 speed box still not great on the dual carriageway so I avoid them but other than that, at sensible speeds I find it ok.
Dave
However, (and this may sound daft) but have you tried the car with half hood?
I find it transforms the car.
I often don't feel like the complete rush on the senses on the way to work in the morning when I take the Caterham. However, putting the half hood on I find the car feels much more 'normal' and can drive as such.
Granted the 6 speed box still not great on the dual carriageway so I avoid them but other than that, at sensible speeds I find it ok.
Dave
ForzaGilles said:
Who mentioned driving at 10/10ths on the road?. My point is, the opportunities to drive a Caterham at an 'enjoyable' speed on the road are few. It's almost like getting the 'perfect storm' - a clear-ish decent road in nice weather.
Maybe the whole 'ridiculous and jiggly' novelty value of a Caterham wore off a long time ago. To me they just beg to be driven quickly. A poor ride, limited practicality and a quirky character can be a bit tedious when you're stuck in traffic doing 40 and it's starting to rain....
And my point was that if you need to drive 'fast' to get enjoyment, you're pretty much screwed, whatever the car (note I said *way short* of 10/10ths). Maybe the whole 'ridiculous and jiggly' novelty value of a Caterham wore off a long time ago. To me they just beg to be driven quickly. A poor ride, limited practicality and a quirky character can be a bit tedious when you're stuck in traffic doing 40 and it's starting to rain....
IMHO the caterham is more involving, even at low speed than anything else I've driven. I utterly fail to understand how replacing it with a 'faster' car solves the problem, but as I said YMMV - no need to get on your high horse.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Thursday 18th May 17:52
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