Going slowly in a Caterham
Discussion
Enjoyment is all down to the drivers attitude. All Caterhams give an unequalled driving experience, open to the sights and sounds of nature, feedback from unassisted controls and the knowledge that there is no electronic nanny to interfere in how you drive.
If you aren't enjoying driving a Seven either quickly or slowly, you're attitude to the car has changed and instead of treating noises and poor ride etc as forgiveable foibles of the car you love, they become the irritating habits of the soon to be ex partner. Just accept the situation, the Seven hasn't changed, you have.
Buy a different car, but don't expect it to be more fun.
If you aren't enjoying driving a Seven either quickly or slowly, you're attitude to the car has changed and instead of treating noises and poor ride etc as forgiveable foibles of the car you love, they become the irritating habits of the soon to be ex partner. Just accept the situation, the Seven hasn't changed, you have.
Buy a different car, but don't expect it to be more fun.
I have been enjoying my seven in the lovely weather , and keeping within the speed limits , it is possible to do this , on a variation of roads . I even took out my father in law for the caterham experience , he loved it , and did not tell me to slow down once . No other car comes close .
I built it in 1989, 1700 Super Spint spec, then over the years upgraded bits.
Around 2000 I fitted a 2l Dunnell Zetec just under 230bhp running fuel injection,
I was racing at the time in the JCC centurion series that were 100 mile ish races.
So bigger fuel tank, brakes, suspension by Gary May, BGH gearbox, LSD, Raceco exhaust etc.
Then packed in the racing and the engine was a pig on the road, undrivable under 4000 rpm,
took it back to Dunnell to be remapped to be told it was a race engine designed like that and nothing else could be done.
Then I took it to Dave Walker at emerald, Dunnell wouldn't release the software for a remap so
Dave fitted the emerald ecu and mapped it.
Chalk and cheese!
Under 4000rpm now it drives like a Honda Civic, pulls from tick over yet still makes the same peak power as before.
Only difference now is the slicks are off, road tyres on.
The last four years we've toured the Sth of France and into Italy for holidays and the wife has loved it, what a car!
Around 2000 I fitted a 2l Dunnell Zetec just under 230bhp running fuel injection,
I was racing at the time in the JCC centurion series that were 100 mile ish races.
So bigger fuel tank, brakes, suspension by Gary May, BGH gearbox, LSD, Raceco exhaust etc.
Then packed in the racing and the engine was a pig on the road, undrivable under 4000 rpm,
took it back to Dunnell to be remapped to be told it was a race engine designed like that and nothing else could be done.
Then I took it to Dave Walker at emerald, Dunnell wouldn't release the software for a remap so
Dave fitted the emerald ecu and mapped it.
Chalk and cheese!
Under 4000rpm now it drives like a Honda Civic, pulls from tick over yet still makes the same peak power as before.
Only difference now is the slicks are off, road tyres on.
The last four years we've toured the Sth of France and into Italy for holidays and the wife has loved it, what a car!
Edited by tight fart on Saturday 3rd June 14:56
Great looking car with a happy owner 
Mapping can make a huge difference. My Sigma 125 has the original Caterham map which is fine 90% of the time, but can get caught out when reapplying the throttle gently. It can lead to a jolt, but now I know what's going on, it is possible to drive around the problem.
Mapping can make a huge difference. My Sigma 125 has the original Caterham map which is fine 90% of the time, but can get caught out when reapplying the throttle gently. It can lead to a jolt, but now I know what's going on, it is possible to drive around the problem.
Yep, fully agree. And now an interesting discussion of what makes fun driving. Now like all good PHERs, I am a smart arse and know everything, but I can't quite work out what I find fun on the road. I think it's to do with chuckability and responsiveness and responsiveness(!). So on here where the inevitable 'what Caterham should I buy?' comes up, I always urge people to try low power. So the two best driving cars that I've had are my 1600k-exec superlight and my 911/996 GT3 RS. And both were driven on the road and with hardly any blatting. I think pretty safely and reasonably considerately.
Both awesome cars for me at pretty low speeds. I love my new-to-me 140bhp 1969 911 (shameless, I've got an old 911 plug). Beautifully light and lithe.
So for me I can enjoy road driving at non-licence-losing speeds and hardly any oppo needed!
Bert
Both awesome cars for me at pretty low speeds. I love my new-to-me 140bhp 1969 911 (shameless, I've got an old 911 plug). Beautifully light and lithe.
So for me I can enjoy road driving at non-licence-losing speeds and hardly any oppo needed!
Bert
Equus said:
OK, but serious point: early morning blats are:
a) When you're most likely to encounter large wildlife on the road; some of which can kill you if you're going too fast to avoid hitting it.
b) The time of day when some serious cyclists go out, for the same reason: to avoid traffic. See point A, with the added bonus of a prison sentence if you happen to hit the cyclist.
b) Pretty bloody antisocial. People live in rural areas too.It may surprise you to find that they're not keen on f
kwits with loud exhausts blaring past them at full chat at 4:30 in the morning.
There is no good time to drive at the sort of speeds that a Caterham is capable of, on UK roads.
a) When you're most likely to encounter large wildlife on the road; some of which can kill you if you're going too fast to avoid hitting it.
b) The time of day when some serious cyclists go out, for the same reason: to avoid traffic. See point A, with the added bonus of a prison sentence if you happen to hit the cyclist.
b) Pretty bloody antisocial. People live in rural areas too.It may surprise you to find that they're not keen on f
kwits with loud exhausts blaring past them at full chat at 4:30 in the morning.There is no good time to drive at the sort of speeds that a Caterham is capable of, on UK roads.
Edited by Equus on Wednesday 31st May 08:49
downsman said:
Mapping can make a huge difference. My Sigma 125 has the original Caterham map which is fine 90% of the time, but can get caught out when reapplying the throttle gently. It can lead to a jolt, but now I know what's going on, it is possible to drive around the problem.
It's also worth checking cam timing. The old K series supersport had a slightly retarded intake cam when standard timing pulleys were used. Thius was made worse when the K series inevitably cooked its HG and needed a skim, the timing was shifted slightly in the wrong direction because obviously the geometry was now changed. The result was a bloody awful flat spot at low revs. Vernier pulleys and careful setup to correct timing fixed this. It didn't add much to the top end but low speed running was much better.I was struck by 'Tighfart's post above as my car sounds very similar, though it's a 2002 SV.
It has a very highly specced K1800 engne, one of six PTP Evo 220 units build in 2000 by Janspeed for PTP.
It will produce between 220 and 230bhp now I've fitted the right R500 fuel pump. The torque was huge on Emerald's dyno.
I recently had it finessed at Watton on the Emerald dyno and it's now running as well as can be expected. It was build for endurance racing, and is a total bd to drive slowly, transmission driveline shunt, R500 flywheel but the worst thing is without doubt the Titan Phantom throttle bodies.
These have problems with progressivity at smaller throttle openings, because of the basic design. The butterflies are too far from the ports, and shockwaves formed in the column of mixture cause the problems.
Jenveys have the butterflies much closer to the ports....no length for the shockwaves to form in.
Emerald reckon that if they are replaced with Jenveys the nasty kangarooing tendency will go, so that's what I will do.
Tightfart, what TBs do you have on the 230bhp Zetec?
I live in SW France, so this sort of car is more usable, but I have kept the original K1600 engine with a lower state of tune just in case the Jenveys don't fully cure the slow speed driving problem.
It has a very highly specced K1800 engne, one of six PTP Evo 220 units build in 2000 by Janspeed for PTP.
It will produce between 220 and 230bhp now I've fitted the right R500 fuel pump. The torque was huge on Emerald's dyno.
I recently had it finessed at Watton on the Emerald dyno and it's now running as well as can be expected. It was build for endurance racing, and is a total b
d to drive slowly, transmission driveline shunt, R500 flywheel but the worst thing is without doubt the Titan Phantom throttle bodies.These have problems with progressivity at smaller throttle openings, because of the basic design. The butterflies are too far from the ports, and shockwaves formed in the column of mixture cause the problems.
Jenveys have the butterflies much closer to the ports....no length for the shockwaves to form in.
Emerald reckon that if they are replaced with Jenveys the nasty kangarooing tendency will go, so that's what I will do.
Tightfart, what TBs do you have on the 230bhp Zetec?
I live in SW France, so this sort of car is more usable, but I have kept the original K1600 engine with a lower state of tune just in case the Jenveys don't fully cure the slow speed driving problem.
Edited by unclefester on Sunday 11th June 18:40
The engine was in a small Caterham under the PTP/ Trinity Garages banner. I imagine at the time it did have a high output pump otheriwise it would have been too weak over about 6k.
I had simply forgotten to fit one when I installed the Evo 220 in my SV, and it was on the dyno at Emerald that we noticed it weakening at high revs. I haven't used high revs since, the motor had just been rebuilt before the dyno session when I'd also re-shimmed the head and fitted new Turbosport verniers so I think I can safely say that it's fine.
I wouldn't have run it on track with the stock 120bhp pump, hence the new one.
I've been building race engines, and racing, for a long time!
I had simply forgotten to fit one when I installed the Evo 220 in my SV, and it was on the dyno at Emerald that we noticed it weakening at high revs. I haven't used high revs since, the motor had just been rebuilt before the dyno session when I'd also re-shimmed the head and fitted new Turbosport verniers so I think I can safely say that it's fine.
I wouldn't have run it on track with the stock 120bhp pump, hence the new one.
I've been building race engines, and racing, for a long time!
I think they may be Rover KV6 units, as they are on a manifold. I may be wrong...the KV6 were used on the K engines anyway, on a 'swan neck manifold'. As it's a Ford unit they may be Ford TBs?
Can you see any markings on them?
They aren't Titan Phantoms or Jenveys, for sure.
I think due to the length of the manifold, you may well have the same manifold shockwave problem I have!
Can you see any markings on them?
They aren't Titan Phantoms or Jenveys, for sure.
I think due to the length of the manifold, you may well have the same manifold shockwave problem I have!
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