Discussion
There are a few options to make the brakes require more force - though most people think the brakes on a caterham aren't sensitive enough to light pressure, lol.
You can get a high-effort brake pedal, that decreases leverage, or you can get the AP racing master cylinder which is a high-quality unit but has less hydraulic leverage, so needs more force but less travel. Good for heel-toe techniques.
You may have really grabby brake pads or a sticky piston, as well.
Most people who tweak their brakes, tend to actually upgrade to better than stock/stickier pads, maybe bigger brake kits. So it is interesting that you feel they grab too much.
You can get a high-effort brake pedal, that decreases leverage, or you can get the AP racing master cylinder which is a high-quality unit but has less hydraulic leverage, so needs more force but less travel. Good for heel-toe techniques.
You may have really grabby brake pads or a sticky piston, as well.
Most people who tweak their brakes, tend to actually upgrade to better than stock/stickier pads, maybe bigger brake kits. So it is interesting that you feel they grab too much.
So I have the stock academy pads, calipers...etc Here is a little more background:
Lets assume the 10/10 on the brakes is full lock / skid. at 80mph I am trying to get 8/10 or 9/10 thus maximising the brake effect, then as the speed scrubs off reduce the braking to 7/10 or 6/10.
The the issue that I am having is that I am either 10/10 or 5/10, I.E I grab a load of brake, the wheels lock, then i "bounce off then too much" I am really struggling to find the sensitivity.
I wondered if having a bit more travel, or desensitising then may help? It may of course make things worse!
Lets assume the 10/10 on the brakes is full lock / skid. at 80mph I am trying to get 8/10 or 9/10 thus maximising the brake effect, then as the speed scrubs off reduce the braking to 7/10 or 6/10.
The the issue that I am having is that I am either 10/10 or 5/10, I.E I grab a load of brake, the wheels lock, then i "bounce off then too much" I am really struggling to find the sensitivity.
I wondered if having a bit more travel, or desensitising then may help? It may of course make things worse!
That sounds as much a tyre issue as brakes to me, but the quality of the braking can be dramatically improved with an upgrade to the 10" ventilated discs and 4 pot calipers. There's just a lot more control on that set-up as you're not at the performance limit of the pads and discs so much.
Edited by DCL on Saturday 22 July 12:32
Hi - the issue is probably more with the application of the brakes in the first place. Once you lock a wheel, getting rotation again requires a much greater release of pressure. Try to be more progressive when applying the brakes - still fast, but progressive. It would be better to practice how far you can push the pedal in which circumstances slowly at first and then build up speed over time.
Check your rear brakes are working properly!!
I had an Identical problem - it took a long time to sort, My car had rear drums which wern't operating [however similar could happen to Discs] this caused the fronts to lock and NO feel whatsoever on the brake pedal. However because the 7 brakes work so well it was only during extreme braking that it was a problem!
It turned out that the brake pipe to rears was blocked with really sludged up brake fluid the fluid had somehow degraded, I suggest you bleed the rears several times, One flush does NOT remove all the sludge. My brakes are now back to their awesome selves.
Hope this works for you
I had an Identical problem - it took a long time to sort, My car had rear drums which wern't operating [however similar could happen to Discs] this caused the fronts to lock and NO feel whatsoever on the brake pedal. However because the 7 brakes work so well it was only during extreme braking that it was a problem!
It turned out that the brake pipe to rears was blocked with really sludged up brake fluid the fluid had somehow degraded, I suggest you bleed the rears several times, One flush does NOT remove all the sludge. My brakes are now back to their awesome selves.
Hope this works for you
CharlesElliott said:
Hi - the issue is probably more with the application of the brakes in the first place. Once you lock a wheel, getting rotation again requires a much greater release of pressure. Try to be more progressive when applying the brakes - still fast, but progressive. It would be better to practice how far you can push the pedal in which circumstances slowly at first and then build up speed over time.
Thanks. I think that could be the problemrene7 said:
Check your rear brakes are working properly!!
I had an Identical problem - it took a long time to sort, My car had rear drums which wern't operating [however similar could happen to Discs] this caused the fronts to lock and NO feel whatsoever on the brake pedal. However because the 7 brakes work so well it was only during extreme braking that it was a problem!
It turned out that the brake pipe to rears was blocked with really sludged up brake fluid the fluid had somehow degraded, I suggest you bleed the rears several times, One flush does NOT remove all the sludge. My brakes are now back to their awesome selves.
Hope this works for you
Thanks. I will give them a good serviceI had an Identical problem - it took a long time to sort, My car had rear drums which wern't operating [however similar could happen to Discs] this caused the fronts to lock and NO feel whatsoever on the brake pedal. However because the 7 brakes work so well it was only during extreme braking that it was a problem!
It turned out that the brake pipe to rears was blocked with really sludged up brake fluid the fluid had somehow degraded, I suggest you bleed the rears several times, One flush does NOT remove all the sludge. My brakes are now back to their awesome selves.
Hope this works for you
ok, your more detailed description helps a lot. :-)
It isn't so much that the brakes you have are sensitive, it seems more that they have really poor modulation. You can lock them in near desperation, but fine control near the limit is not really there, and moderate braking at speed may seem wooden.
Strangely enough, I've found that to be a symptom of too _little_ braking power. You can lock the wheels still, but don't have the braking power to finesse what is happening - almost all or nothing. Such a thing is very obvious on downhill mountain bikes; smaller rotors will work, but you tend to lock up more, and don't have the feel and power for controlling speed on very steep slower stuff. Example would be a steep rock slab at Whistler. Bigger rotors and metallic brake pads change that immensely, despite the using same calipers.
So you might benefit from creating a stronger braking system. The simplest way is to increase your available friction with higher friction brake pads that also have good modulation and cold bite. Pagid RS-14, CL RC6, Carbotech AX6 or XP8 (carbotech have a rather aggressive friction curve with heat, that may not work for you). Also, the stock front brakes need a bit more help than the back brakes, so you can juggle pad friction front/rear.
So if you have the time, it might be good to check that your brakes are functioning well - ie. pistons aren't seized. Then flush through with good brake fluid. Then consider experimenting with some high friction street/track pads.
The AP racing big brake kit from caterham is very high quality, doesn't squeal, easy to work on, and may match what you want out of your brakes. Hispec make some big brake kits at a good price, and you might be able to mount an M16(?) front brake setup.
I run the AP racing big brake kit, and the AP racing master cylinder, with Performance Friction PF01 front pads. I have good modulation, but still it takes a lot of force to stop the car compared to a very modern brembo power brake system. I do have very nice modulation, though with a light car it can be subtle. I played around with them coming down one of the local mountains to get a better feel. The cool thing about a caterham is you can watch what your tires are doing. :-D.
It isn't so much that the brakes you have are sensitive, it seems more that they have really poor modulation. You can lock them in near desperation, but fine control near the limit is not really there, and moderate braking at speed may seem wooden.
Strangely enough, I've found that to be a symptom of too _little_ braking power. You can lock the wheels still, but don't have the braking power to finesse what is happening - almost all or nothing. Such a thing is very obvious on downhill mountain bikes; smaller rotors will work, but you tend to lock up more, and don't have the feel and power for controlling speed on very steep slower stuff. Example would be a steep rock slab at Whistler. Bigger rotors and metallic brake pads change that immensely, despite the using same calipers.
So you might benefit from creating a stronger braking system. The simplest way is to increase your available friction with higher friction brake pads that also have good modulation and cold bite. Pagid RS-14, CL RC6, Carbotech AX6 or XP8 (carbotech have a rather aggressive friction curve with heat, that may not work for you). Also, the stock front brakes need a bit more help than the back brakes, so you can juggle pad friction front/rear.
So if you have the time, it might be good to check that your brakes are functioning well - ie. pistons aren't seized. Then flush through with good brake fluid. Then consider experimenting with some high friction street/track pads.
The AP racing big brake kit from caterham is very high quality, doesn't squeal, easy to work on, and may match what you want out of your brakes. Hispec make some big brake kits at a good price, and you might be able to mount an M16(?) front brake setup.
I run the AP racing big brake kit, and the AP racing master cylinder, with Performance Friction PF01 front pads. I have good modulation, but still it takes a lot of force to stop the car compared to a very modern brembo power brake system. I do have very nice modulation, though with a light car it can be subtle. I played around with them coming down one of the local mountains to get a better feel. The cool thing about a caterham is you can watch what your tires are doing. :-D.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff