5 speed type 9 replacement options
Discussion
I have a Birkin with a 5 speed type 9 which was a factory build.
I think the T9 is good standard for 180 bhp, but if I believe the hype, my up graded tuned and ECU'd 2.0 duratec engine is giving about 245bhp.
The gearbox is the biggest let down on the car as it is very stiff and lets everything down.
As an aside the gear stick is a little too far forward for me, but that is not a deal breaker.
Can anyone give an opinion on the options open to me to improve things?
I was thinking how a 5 speed compares to a 6 speed (the birkin has a Subaru diff)
But also how a Caterham box differs from the others available.
I know I don't own a Caterham, but I have helped many a Caterham owner out at track days!! So be kind!
Cheers
Ed
I think the T9 is good standard for 180 bhp, but if I believe the hype, my up graded tuned and ECU'd 2.0 duratec engine is giving about 245bhp.
The gearbox is the biggest let down on the car as it is very stiff and lets everything down.
As an aside the gear stick is a little too far forward for me, but that is not a deal breaker.
Can anyone give an opinion on the options open to me to improve things?
I was thinking how a 5 speed compares to a 6 speed (the birkin has a Subaru diff)
But also how a Caterham box differs from the others available.
I know I don't own a Caterham, but I have helped many a Caterham owner out at track days!! So be kind!
Cheers
Ed
The first thing I would say is that the 5 speed shouldn't be stiff. I have the 5 speed in my much less powerful Seven and once the oil is warm, it is a great shift at least in the first four gears as the spring is strong to get into fifth.
I'm not sure the Caterham Six speed is the way to go. It is based on the type 9, the gears are unecessarily close for a 2 litre engine and you get a low 1:1 top gear.
The sequential boxes seem to be the best way to upgrade a very high powered Seven, but I would also consider the Mazda MX5 box that Caterham are now fitting to all their new cars.
I'm not sure the Caterham Six speed is the way to go. It is based on the type 9, the gears are unecessarily close for a 2 litre engine and you get a low 1:1 top gear.
The sequential boxes seem to be the best way to upgrade a very high powered Seven, but I would also consider the Mazda MX5 box that Caterham are now fitting to all their new cars.
I agree on both counts. I have the 5 speed in my Duratec and the shift is great. I put redline MTL into it from new as general consensus is that this improves the shift. I certainly have no complaints. I too think the 5 speed is well suited to the Duratec cars.
With regards your 5 speed, perhaps change to Redline MTL and see if that improves things for you. Failing that there are a few good places to go to for a rebuild / advice on what to do. BGH , SPC & Road & Race transmissions are all experts on the type 9 and are worth talking to
Tom
With regards your 5 speed, perhaps change to Redline MTL and see if that improves things for you. Failing that there are a few good places to go to for a rebuild / advice on what to do. BGH , SPC & Road & Race transmissions are all experts on the type 9 and are worth talking to
Tom
Stick to the 5 speed, with 245bhp unless the diff is running a ratio around 3.14 or 3.38 the 6 speed will be painful.
Also, sometimes the pivot point on the 5 speed gear stick can be less than optimal, remove the gearstick and carefully tap the pivot collar along the shaft ... trial and error might improve it. It's an interference fit.
Also, sometimes the pivot point on the 5 speed gear stick can be less than optimal, remove the gearstick and carefully tap the pivot collar along the shaft ... trial and error might improve it. It's an interference fit.
I've never experienced any problems with my original T9 save for the really short 1st gear. At 59,000 miles Phil at Road & Race refurbed it and only issues were 2 cracked synchros and a bent selector fork. I then ran this gearbox for another 29,000 miles and used it for sprinting, touring etc. The most recent use being with a torquey 200bhp Zetec, Throughout the diff has been a 3.92
In 2015 I finally decided to change the ratios and went for one of Tracsport T9 semi-helical gearsets which IMHO has transformed the car. For comparison:
Standard T9 ratios: 1st: 3.36 - 2nd: 1.84 - 3rd: 1.22 - 4th: 1.0 - 5th: 0.82
SPC Tracsport ratios: 1st: 2.29 - 2nd: 1.61 - 3rd: 1.22 - 4th: 1.0 - 5th: 0.87
When speaking to BGH they advised me not to go lower than their 2.67 offering for a first gear as it would be difficult to drive 'in traffic'. I've certainly not experienced any such problems with the long first.
In 2015 I finally decided to change the ratios and went for one of Tracsport T9 semi-helical gearsets which IMHO has transformed the car. For comparison:
Standard T9 ratios: 1st: 3.36 - 2nd: 1.84 - 3rd: 1.22 - 4th: 1.0 - 5th: 0.82
SPC Tracsport ratios: 1st: 2.29 - 2nd: 1.61 - 3rd: 1.22 - 4th: 1.0 - 5th: 0.87
When speaking to BGH they advised me not to go lower than their 2.67 offering for a first gear as it would be difficult to drive 'in traffic'. I've certainly not experienced any such problems with the long first.
Great info on the tracsport ratios, thanks for sharing.
Can't say I'm surprised that you've not had any problems in traffic. My box is still standard and I've given up using first all together and just pull away in second the whole time which is longer than first is in your modified box.
Can I ask, what is the noise like compared to the standard gear set? I take its still quite pleasant to drive on the road?
Also, do you think you made the right choice opting for the 0.87 5th rather than the 0.82 as per the standard box? I presume it's still got good road manners in 5th and not to buzzy on the motorway?
Can't say I'm surprised that you've not had any problems in traffic. My box is still standard and I've given up using first all together and just pull away in second the whole time which is longer than first is in your modified box.
Can I ask, what is the noise like compared to the standard gear set? I take its still quite pleasant to drive on the road?
Also, do you think you made the right choice opting for the 0.87 5th rather than the 0.82 as per the standard box? I presume it's still got good road manners in 5th and not to buzzy on the motorway?
Equus said:
Get your gearbox rebuilt/modifed by BGH Geartech.
Definitely this, had a BGH 5 speed rocket box in my seven, superb ratios, slick change, 5th gear was 0.91 so a close overdrive.Dave
tomwoodis said:
Can I ask, what is the noise like compared to the standard gear set? I take its still quite pleasant to drive on the road?
Also, do you think you made the right choice opting for the 0.87 5th rather than the 0.82 as per the standard box? I presume it's still got good road manners in 5th and not to buzzy on the motorway?
I'm aero'd and use earplugs, but there is a gentle whine in 2nd and 3rd gears, not enough to bother me or SWMBO and as far as I'm concerned still pleasant to drive on the road.Also, do you think you made the right choice opting for the 0.87 5th rather than the 0.82 as per the standard box? I presume it's still got good road manners in 5th and not to buzzy on the motorway?
My car is really a compromise between a sprint car and a touring car, I now find with the the shorter 5th I'm using 5th and still able to accelerate on longer circuits and on the road I find I'm using 5th more as all the gears feel more closely matched. Going from 4th to 5th on the road feels more 'natural' now.
For road driving I normally use Yoko 21s in 186/70/13 profile and according to Gearcalc 70mph is approx. 3500 revs (in France 80mph is approx. 4,000 revs), but the real trick is to avoid motorways
Sorry for not getting back, I have been sorting a few things on the car.
To up date everyone, I changed all the oil I could get out of it with the Ford recommended oil (as I'd bought it before reading the MTL advice).
The gear change has certainly improved but I still find it very easy to select reverse!
I want to suck it and see for a while but the weather is against me!
The Birkin has 15 inch wheels as that is all that fit over the brakes.
To up date everyone, I changed all the oil I could get out of it with the Ford recommended oil (as I'd bought it before reading the MTL advice).
The gear change has certainly improved but I still find it very easy to select reverse!
I want to suck it and see for a while but the weather is against me!
The Birkin has 15 inch wheels as that is all that fit over the brakes.
My plastic one was quite badly worn and making changes feel a bit mushy.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rLr6htSkPM1TJBLO2
I bought a new one (and an additional spare) and it's been fine ever since. In fact it was a revelation as far as the gear change went. It feels very precise now.
I saw that it was possible to buy a brass on, but given the price, I figured I could do through 10 of the plastic ones and still be better off!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rLr6htSkPM1TJBLO2
I bought a new one (and an additional spare) and it's been fine ever since. In fact it was a revelation as far as the gear change went. It feels very precise now.
I saw that it was possible to buy a brass on, but given the price, I figured I could do through 10 of the plastic ones and still be better off!
Mine was not as bad as that but fingers crossed it helps.
My reckoning was the metal ones can't clip on like a plastic one, and in the instructions they say to crimp them on a bit, I think they mean bend it round.
There is also supposed to be Zing from the metal ones, a claim from a competitor! I have no idea what 'zing' is!
Anyway, I have ordered a plastic upgraded one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TYPE-9-ESCORT-CORTINA-C...
I will let you know once fitted, in case anyone is interested.
My reckoning was the metal ones can't clip on like a plastic one, and in the instructions they say to crimp them on a bit, I think they mean bend it round.
There is also supposed to be Zing from the metal ones, a claim from a competitor! I have no idea what 'zing' is!
Anyway, I have ordered a plastic upgraded one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TYPE-9-ESCORT-CORTINA-C...
I will let you know once fitted, in case anyone is interested.
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