Caterham without history
Discussion
Hi all
Am looking at purchasing a Caterham from a dealer for a car without any history. Its an 09 plate one owner car with 4500 miles on it.
According to the dealer its been garaged by the owner for most of its life. If I were to proceed I would want a full service completed together with all fluids being replaced plus an engine diagnostics report.
What is the collective view on how this might impact value and is there anything else I should be wary of?
Thanks!
Am looking at purchasing a Caterham from a dealer for a car without any history. Its an 09 plate one owner car with 4500 miles on it.
According to the dealer its been garaged by the owner for most of its life. If I were to proceed I would want a full service completed together with all fluids being replaced plus an engine diagnostics report.
What is the collective view on how this might impact value and is there anything else I should be wary of?
Thanks!
Top lurking 1st. post in 14yrs. on P.H.
Is the dealer a Caterham dealer or sells many different vehicles may be a consideration.
Do you know much about Caterhams.
Look at the Cats. for sale here to see how it compares price wise for age, mileage, spec.
Have you asked the dealer if he minds you contacting previous owner for background, you may get a feeling on his reply.
Is the dealer a Caterham dealer or sells many different vehicles may be a consideration.
Do you know much about Caterhams.
Look at the Cats. for sale here to see how it compares price wise for age, mileage, spec.
Have you asked the dealer if he minds you contacting previous owner for background, you may get a feeling on his reply.
sutchy said:
Hi all
Am looking at purchasing a Caterham from a dealer for a car without any history. Its an 09 plate one owner car with 4500 miles on it.
According to the dealer its been garaged by the owner for most of its life. If I were to proceed I would want a full service completed together with all fluids being replaced plus an engine diagnostics report.
What is the collective view on how this might impact value and is there anything else I should be wary of?
Thanks!
Not sure what you're asking about with regard to impacting on value?Am looking at purchasing a Caterham from a dealer for a car without any history. Its an 09 plate one owner car with 4500 miles on it.
According to the dealer its been garaged by the owner for most of its life. If I were to proceed I would want a full service completed together with all fluids being replaced plus an engine diagnostics report.
What is the collective view on how this might impact value and is there anything else I should be wary of?
Thanks!
If it's the mileage and age, there are plenty of 7s with that sort of history. A fellow L7C member recently bought a car (R400D) of similar age with less than 1k miles. The builder built it then became ill and just stored the car.
It's new owner gave it a thorough check but it's been fine.
A service and fluid change is a given, if only so that you know where you are, but that's easy enough to do.
If it's been poorly stored I would think the signs will be easily recognised, dirt, dust, corrosion maybe?
Which engine is it?
DE15 CAT said:
Top lurking 1st. post in 14yrs. on P.H.
Is the dealer a Caterham dealer or sells many different vehicles may be a consideration.
Do you know much about Caterhams.
Look at the Cats. for sale here to see how it compares price wise for age, mileage, spec.
Have you asked the dealer if he minds you contacting previous owner for background, you may get a feeling on his reply.
Yes first post has been a long time coming hasnt it?! I am a master of lurking...Is the dealer a Caterham dealer or sells many different vehicles may be a consideration.
Do you know much about Caterhams.
Look at the Cats. for sale here to see how it compares price wise for age, mileage, spec.
Have you asked the dealer if he minds you contacting previous owner for background, you may get a feeling on his reply.
This is the car:
https://www.oakmeremotorgroup.co.uk/cars/prestige/...
I think price wise, at face value, its in line with other R500s for sale recently. My question around value related to whether you would consider it priced on the high side given its lack of history.
Thanks for your response
REALIST123 said:
Not sure what you're asking about with regard to impacting on value?
If it's the mileage and age, there are plenty of 7s with that sort of history. A fellow L7C member recently bought a car (R400D) of similar age with less than 1k miles. The builder built it then became ill and just stored the car.
It's new owner gave it a thorough check but it's been fine.
A service and fluid change is a given, if only so that you know where you are, but that's easy enough to do.
If it's been poorly stored I would think the signs will be easily recognised, dirt, dust, corrosion maybe?
Which engine is it?
Hi, thanks for your response. its an R500 duratec engine. (link above in previous post) It was stored on axle stands apparently to stop the tyres from flat spotting. Regarding the other items you mention, I would need to check those over when I go for a look.If it's the mileage and age, there are plenty of 7s with that sort of history. A fellow L7C member recently bought a car (R400D) of similar age with less than 1k miles. The builder built it then became ill and just stored the car.
It's new owner gave it a thorough check but it's been fine.
A service and fluid change is a given, if only so that you know where you are, but that's easy enough to do.
If it's been poorly stored I would think the signs will be easily recognised, dirt, dust, corrosion maybe?
Which engine is it?
Sorry my answer can only be vague as i'm not looking to buy this car so not doing the research. I would take the steps I have already mentioned as part of that decision making process.
I would bear in mind a dealer would be looking to maximise profit so would not necessarily be initially offering a lower asking price & confident in there sales ability to minimise lack of history worries by customers. If you feel confident bartering its your chance to try for maximum discount.
Your only other consideration is how do you view depreciation when you want to sell, if you sell private a buyer will probably bring in the lack of history as their negotiating tool, to another dealer the same. If back to this dealer you should remind them of their confidence in the vehicle when selling to you.
If you're looking to keep the Cat. long term keeping receipts to build your own history will help.
If you feel it has to be this car nothing else your desire will weaken your strategy.
My self I would look at a few others of similar price & spec. & if they had much more history probably buy one for that reason.
I would bear in mind a dealer would be looking to maximise profit so would not necessarily be initially offering a lower asking price & confident in there sales ability to minimise lack of history worries by customers. If you feel confident bartering its your chance to try for maximum discount.
Your only other consideration is how do you view depreciation when you want to sell, if you sell private a buyer will probably bring in the lack of history as their negotiating tool, to another dealer the same. If back to this dealer you should remind them of their confidence in the vehicle when selling to you.
If you're looking to keep the Cat. long term keeping receipts to build your own history will help.
If you feel it has to be this car nothing else your desire will weaken your strategy.
My self I would look at a few others of similar price & spec. & if they had much more history probably buy one for that reason.
I thought the R500Ds all had numbered plaques (either on dash or pedal box)? This car may possibly have been kit-built "to R500 spec" - or subsequently upgraded to it - which usually means with a Duratec engine tuned (by someone) to a similar power output to the official R500s. it would be worth checking exactly what the engine is. I don't think I've ever seen an R500D without Tillett seats before either! But it's with a reputable dealer, so I'm sure they can verify whether or not it started life as an R500. If it didn't, then that looks an ambitious price..
I was in a similar boat a couple of years ago.
Found an absolutely mint R500D, (registered in 2014), being offered as a private sale, with less than 1,000 miles on the clock, although the first service has been carried out by CC.
However despite appearing to be built to the exact model spec, the car had no official CC build plaque / number and that made me nervous enough to prevent me 'pulling the trigger' there and then, despite the car being the best example I had seen by far. For once I 'let my head rule my heart' but told the seller I was very interested but wanted to do 'a bit of digging' first.
Firstly I contacted Jon Millwood at Millwood Caterham who had supplied the vehicle new at first registration and he was extremely helpful, advising that he had commissioned a couple of cars to be built for customers from CC-supplied kits, by a chap, (name escapes me), who had close ties with the CC factory near Dartford. Jon mentioned that build quality and set up was probably better than the factory-standard as a result!
Thereafter and having taken the VIN number, I contacted the archivist at Caterham Cars, (Martin Phipps I believe his name is), who again was really helpful and he confirmed that the kit had been sold for assembly outside of CC. This included a crated engine.
This is quite unusual for the R500D albeit there are genuine cases where it did happen. In my case, there was no plaque or number but the kit and engine were fully to spec and I was advised that even a genuine, factory-built car did not necessarily have one. (Think it's been discussed on here a few times)
Anyway, I took the plunge and haven't regretted it for a single moment. Awesome cars!
However maybe I got lucky so in light of the considerable sum involved, (and the dealer is asking for top money), my advice would be to investigate as far as you can by speaking to the previous owner if possible and by putting a call in to the archivist at CC, although you will need the VIN number. And as another poster mentioned the R500D usually came with the kevlar race seats albeit I'm sure it was possible to spec leather instead.
Good luck.
Found an absolutely mint R500D, (registered in 2014), being offered as a private sale, with less than 1,000 miles on the clock, although the first service has been carried out by CC.
However despite appearing to be built to the exact model spec, the car had no official CC build plaque / number and that made me nervous enough to prevent me 'pulling the trigger' there and then, despite the car being the best example I had seen by far. For once I 'let my head rule my heart' but told the seller I was very interested but wanted to do 'a bit of digging' first.
Firstly I contacted Jon Millwood at Millwood Caterham who had supplied the vehicle new at first registration and he was extremely helpful, advising that he had commissioned a couple of cars to be built for customers from CC-supplied kits, by a chap, (name escapes me), who had close ties with the CC factory near Dartford. Jon mentioned that build quality and set up was probably better than the factory-standard as a result!
Thereafter and having taken the VIN number, I contacted the archivist at Caterham Cars, (Martin Phipps I believe his name is), who again was really helpful and he confirmed that the kit had been sold for assembly outside of CC. This included a crated engine.
This is quite unusual for the R500D albeit there are genuine cases where it did happen. In my case, there was no plaque or number but the kit and engine were fully to spec and I was advised that even a genuine, factory-built car did not necessarily have one. (Think it's been discussed on here a few times)
Anyway, I took the plunge and haven't regretted it for a single moment. Awesome cars!
However maybe I got lucky so in light of the considerable sum involved, (and the dealer is asking for top money), my advice would be to investigate as far as you can by speaking to the previous owner if possible and by putting a call in to the archivist at CC, although you will need the VIN number. And as another poster mentioned the R500D usually came with the kevlar race seats albeit I'm sure it was possible to spec leather instead.
Good luck.
Are you planning on tracking the car? In its standard form the R500D fails all track day noise tests. Most people (me included) opt for a carbon airbox (~£500) and raceco exhaust (~£700). I would also want the roll bar changing to an FIA one.
Regarding history, with the checks you are requesting i would think it is probably ok. If you are planning to keep the car for a while you can build up a service history to give the next owner confidence in the buy?
Regarding history, with the checks you are requesting i would think it is probably ok. If you are planning to keep the car for a while you can build up a service history to give the next owner confidence in the buy?
Thanks for all your comments so far, which have been really helpful.
Interesting point re the track day noise tests being an issue for the R500D, I hadnt considered that. Does the R400 have the same issue?
I have decided to wait to see what else comes up for sale over the the next few months. I am looking for an R400D or R500D so if anyone is considering selling please let me know.
Thanks
Interesting point re the track day noise tests being an issue for the R500D, I hadnt considered that. Does the R400 have the same issue?
I have decided to wait to see what else comes up for sale over the the next few months. I am looking for an R400D or R500D so if anyone is considering selling please let me know.
Thanks
sutchy said:
Thanks for all your comments so far, which have been really helpful.
Interesting point re the track day noise tests being an issue for the R500D, I hadnt considered that. Does the R400 have the same issue?
I have decided to wait to see what else comes up for sale over the the next few months. I am looking for an R400D or R500D so if anyone is considering selling please let me know.
Thanks
I have a 2015 R400D, self built. When I built it, it was a single throttle body and 210bhp. Last year I upgraded it with RBTBs to 220bhp.Interesting point re the track day noise tests being an issue for the R500D, I hadnt considered that. Does the R400 have the same issue?
I have decided to wait to see what else comes up for sale over the the next few months. I am looking for an R400D or R500D so if anyone is considering selling please let me know.
Thanks
I've done TDs at Silverstone and Snetterton in both states of tune and never had an issue, it's always been well within the limits. I do run it with a cat, which may make a difference, and being an SV the intakes are fully covered by the engine cover.
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