420R SV Short person problems!
Discussion
I recently picked up my almost new (1 year old) 420R SV and thoroughly enjoying it.
Not sure if it's normal but she (the car) doesn't enjoy idol'ing from a very cold start for a few minutes but I was told this can be normal due to the cams used on the 420R?
Also my girlfriend has really short legs which I didn't take in to consideration when I insured her on the car for longer journeys. She can't reach the pedals with the seat right forward. Any suggestions / recommendations? Can you purchase seat runners that allow the seat (standard leather) to go further forward for people with short legs? There is plenty of room to move it forward with her still being about to use the car.
Thanks in advance!
Rich
Not sure if it's normal but she (the car) doesn't enjoy idol'ing from a very cold start for a few minutes but I was told this can be normal due to the cams used on the 420R?
Also my girlfriend has really short legs which I didn't take in to consideration when I insured her on the car for longer journeys. She can't reach the pedals with the seat right forward. Any suggestions / recommendations? Can you purchase seat runners that allow the seat (standard leather) to go further forward for people with short legs? There is plenty of room to move it forward with her still being about to use the car.
Thanks in advance!
Rich
Master Bean said:
The car will idle from cold. It's lazy dealers who say they all do that sir. I this is the throttle position sensor but somebody with actual brains will be along shortly.
Thanks! I thought it wouldn't be a normal thing as the car run smooth on idol for the first few days and now it struggles to idol for a few minutes and I have only done a couple of hundred miles since ownership. Look forward to hearing anyone else's opinionMine can't reach the pedals (or see over the wheel) on our S3 without extra cushions underneath and behind her.
I bought some foam and cut two to shape, then covered them in duct tape to look more like leather. Works perfectly.
If you really need the chair to go further forward, keep in mind it might be quite uncomfortable to change gear too since the stick will be too far back. I tried an SV when I bought ours and it was just way too big for me.
I bought some foam and cut two to shape, then covered them in duct tape to look more like leather. Works perfectly.
If you really need the chair to go further forward, keep in mind it might be quite uncomfortable to change gear too since the stick will be too far back. I tried an SV when I bought ours and it was just way too big for me.
The idlngs as much to do with the single throttle body set up as the TPS, though they can be set to idle well, for a time at least.
I found s the best solution for my R400D was a set of RBTBs. Not only does the car now idle very steadily from the start at 800rpm, it will also move off with no increase in throttle, which it wouldn’t do before.
Of course, if you already have RBTBs.......
As for the seats what type are they and do you have lowered floors? I have composites and LF and when the seat’s at the front of the runner it’s very close to the cross member and wouldn’t go much further without being raised a lot.
I found s the best solution for my R400D was a set of RBTBs. Not only does the car now idle very steadily from the start at 800rpm, it will also move off with no increase in throttle, which it wouldn’t do before.
Of course, if you already have RBTBs.......
As for the seats what type are they and do you have lowered floors? I have composites and LF and when the seat’s at the front of the runner it’s very close to the cross member and wouldn’t go much further without being raised a lot.
Your cold idle problem is caused by having a cheap ECU.
From experience I will elaborate.......
I had an R400d years ago and loved it, it ran perfectly. Sold it as I needed the garage space.
Last year I bought a brand new 420R. Same idle problem as yourself and was told buy Williams that they do that when they are new. Few hundred miles later it was still doing it. I was told by Williams it's because of the dry sump and it's a highly tuned engine. It's a Duratec with cams, a basic ECU and dry sump that has F all to do with it. I hate bulls
t.
At this point I'm pissed off as I just spent 40K on a car that, when cold I can't drive as if I take my foot off the throttle it will stall. They eventually asked for the ECU back, I got it back stuck it in and it was improved but not fixed but now the car is running rich and down on power.
Due to this and a couple of other issues the car went back to Caterham and I decided I never wanted to see it again as the car as it never pleased me.
The fix is throttle bodies at a cost of 3000.
The irony is while I hated the experience I find myself now wanting a 620!!!.......... Second hand.
From experience I will elaborate.......
I had an R400d years ago and loved it, it ran perfectly. Sold it as I needed the garage space.
Last year I bought a brand new 420R. Same idle problem as yourself and was told buy Williams that they do that when they are new. Few hundred miles later it was still doing it. I was told by Williams it's because of the dry sump and it's a highly tuned engine. It's a Duratec with cams, a basic ECU and dry sump that has F all to do with it. I hate bulls
t.At this point I'm pissed off as I just spent 40K on a car that, when cold I can't drive as if I take my foot off the throttle it will stall. They eventually asked for the ECU back, I got it back stuck it in and it was improved but not fixed but now the car is running rich and down on power.
Due to this and a couple of other issues the car went back to Caterham and I decided I never wanted to see it again as the car as it never pleased me.
The fix is throttle bodies at a cost of 3000.
The irony is while I hated the experience I find myself now wanting a 620!!!.......... Second hand.
mike150 said:
Your cold idle problem is caused by having a cheap ECU.
From experience I will elaborate.......
I had an R400d years ago and loved it, it ran perfectly. Sold it as I needed the garage space.
Last year I bought a brand new 420R. Same idle problem as yourself and was told buy Williams that they do that when they are new. Few hundred miles later it was still doing it. I was told by Williams it's because of the dry sump and it's a highly tuned engine. It's a Duratec with cams, a basic ECU and dry sump that has F all to do with it. I hate bullst.
At this point I'm pissed off as I just spent 40K on a car that, when cold I can't drive as if I take my foot off the throttle it will stall. They eventually asked for the ECU back, I got it back stuck it in and it was improved but not fixed but now the car is running rich and down on power.
Due to this and a couple of other issues the car went back to Caterham and I decided I never wanted to see it again as the car as it never pleased me.
The fix is throttle bodies at a cost of 3000.
The irony is while I hated the experience I find myself now wanting a 620!!!.......... Second hand.
The ECU is fine. I’m sure that if the map isn’t right it could cause this issue but they all have the same map and the idle issues vary a lot. From experience I will elaborate.......
I had an R400d years ago and loved it, it ran perfectly. Sold it as I needed the garage space.
Last year I bought a brand new 420R. Same idle problem as yourself and was told buy Williams that they do that when they are new. Few hundred miles later it was still doing it. I was told by Williams it's because of the dry sump and it's a highly tuned engine. It's a Duratec with cams, a basic ECU and dry sump that has F all to do with it. I hate bulls
t.At this point I'm pissed off as I just spent 40K on a car that, when cold I can't drive as if I take my foot off the throttle it will stall. They eventually asked for the ECU back, I got it back stuck it in and it was improved but not fixed but now the car is running rich and down on power.
Due to this and a couple of other issues the car went back to Caterham and I decided I never wanted to see it again as the car as it never pleased me.
The fix is throttle bodies at a cost of 3000.
The irony is while I hated the experience I find myself now wanting a 620!!!.......... Second hand.
When RBTBs are fitted the same ECU is remapped and, certainly in my case, the car idles as well as anything I’ve ever had.
Duratec 175 here. I started to get a poor idle after 2 or 3 years from new. Had visions of TPS reset (although supposed to be untweakable) or worse... As an easier option, I tweaked the throttle stop at the engine end (under the cable end) by a quarter of a turn and the problem was fixed.
mike150 said:
Your cold idle problem is caused by having a cheap ECU.
From experience I will elaborate.......
I had an R400d years ago and loved it, it ran perfectly. Sold it as I needed the garage space.
Last year I bought a brand new 420R. Same idle problem as yourself and was told buy Williams that they do that when they are new. Few hundred miles later it was still doing it. I was told by Williams it's because of the dry sump and it's a highly tuned engine. It's a Duratec with cams, a basic ECU and dry sump that has F all to do with it. I hate bullst.
At this point I'm pissed off as I just spent 40K on a car that, when cold I can't drive as if I take my foot off the throttle it will stall. They eventually asked for the ECU back, I got it back stuck it in and it was improved but not fixed but now the car is running rich and down on power.
Due to this and a couple of other issues the car went back to Caterham and I decided I never wanted to see it again as the car as it never pleased me.
The fix is throttle bodies at a cost of 3000.
The irony is while I hated the experience I find myself now wanting a 620!!!.......... Second hand.
Surely as long as the ECU has cold start enrichment maps at sufficient granularity, it can be mapped appropriately? I think the issue here is in the calibration of what is (was) fitted rather than the kit itself. A top of the line MoTEC or Pectel, etc, can still be mapped poorly to provide the same symptoms, despite costing 10x what the Caterham kit costs, albeit it may have more bells and whistles (most of which you wouldn't utilise/need on a road engine). I would suggest a call to one of the well known rolling road guys who have access to the ECU to allow them to modify the auxiliary and base maps (e.g. Road and Race, Emerald). A combination of the correct amount of ignition advance, fuel and air will have the car idling very smoothly.From experience I will elaborate.......
I had an R400d years ago and loved it, it ran perfectly. Sold it as I needed the garage space.
Last year I bought a brand new 420R. Same idle problem as yourself and was told buy Williams that they do that when they are new. Few hundred miles later it was still doing it. I was told by Williams it's because of the dry sump and it's a highly tuned engine. It's a Duratec with cams, a basic ECU and dry sump that has F all to do with it. I hate bulls
t.At this point I'm pissed off as I just spent 40K on a car that, when cold I can't drive as if I take my foot off the throttle it will stall. They eventually asked for the ECU back, I got it back stuck it in and it was improved but not fixed but now the car is running rich and down on power.
Due to this and a couple of other issues the car went back to Caterham and I decided I never wanted to see it again as the car as it never pleased me.
The fix is throttle bodies at a cost of 3000.
The irony is while I hated the experience I find myself now wanting a 620!!!.......... Second hand.
With decent ECU calibration, historical issues with cams with high duration and running lots of overlap can be largely overcome. As for the dealer trying to blame idle behaviour on the oil system.... I'm not sure why he also suggested a fixed set of parameters stored in memory (i.e. various maps in the ECU) will change over time (unless the car is running closed loop via a lambda sensor).
None of this is rocket science.
If it makes any difference I had this problem with my 420R when it was new. It would buck around all the time when pulling off, would stall when stopping, and be generally pretty hard to pull off without lots of revs. Chatted to my mechanic cousin, who suggested setting the idle to maximum idle level allowed (~1500revs I seem to remember) up from around 800-1000revs. This fixed it straight away, doesn't buck around and doesn't stall when braking quickly, even when cold. Dunno if this will do anything if you genuinely have an ECU problem, but may help.
Ref : Reaching the pedals.
Do you have the pedals set on the highest possible setting....so you are sat as far back as possible when you drive ?
Worth checking in the pedal box if you have them as far up as possible and adjust your seating to see if that brings them in range of the young lady.
Do you have the pedals set on the highest possible setting....so you are sat as far back as possible when you drive ?
Worth checking in the pedal box if you have them as far up as possible and adjust your seating to see if that brings them in range of the young lady.
Thanks for all of your replies!
re. cold idol. I have had the car for 2-3 months now and for the first 4-5 weeks I used it 4-5 times per week and not one problem with cold start idoling. It's developed the problem and getting worse now. Once warmed up it's absolutely fine but I can't warm it up on the driveway without occasionally increasing the revs as it will just cut out. I can't see this developed problem being the ECU if it was working before as I suspect they don't unprogrammed themselves? So, could it be the TPS or something else?
re. seat position. I will get the pedal box situation checked out but otherwise I might need to get a seat insert or something to help move her closer to the wheel. Even with the seat right forward she has plenty of room for her arms to use the gear stick and steering wheel.
Rich
re. cold idol. I have had the car for 2-3 months now and for the first 4-5 weeks I used it 4-5 times per week and not one problem with cold start idoling. It's developed the problem and getting worse now. Once warmed up it's absolutely fine but I can't warm it up on the driveway without occasionally increasing the revs as it will just cut out. I can't see this developed problem being the ECU if it was working before as I suspect they don't unprogrammed themselves? So, could it be the TPS or something else?
re. seat position. I will get the pedal box situation checked out but otherwise I might need to get a seat insert or something to help move her closer to the wheel. Even with the seat right forward she has plenty of room for her arms to use the gear stick and steering wheel.
Rich
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