Discussion
REALIST123 said:
Charging and range actually aren’t a deterrent to the majority. Anyone using their car for regular commutes and local use (the majority) doesn’t have a problem with either.
I think they are a deterrent. How many people have cars that are just for regular commutes and local use? Range anxiety is a huge problem.Bert
I suspect it depends a lot where you live! Stuck in London I have two cars and use neither for commuting / local. The seven is for blatting fun and track, the boring barge is for long range stuff. Local use 2 wheeled or public transport. But if you dont live in a city, different..
Back to the point, I doubt many folks need a lot or range from the blatting car, might work for a 7. Batteries would suck for track use tho
Back to the point, I doubt many folks need a lot or range from the blatting car, might work for a 7. Batteries would suck for track use tho
BertBert said:
REALIST123 said:
Charging and range actually aren’t a deterrent to the majority. Anyone using their car for regular commutes and local use (the majority) doesn’t have a problem with either.
I think they are a deterrent. How many people have cars that are just for regular commutes and local use? Range anxiety is a huge problem.Bert
Currently, I am fortunate to have a local commute but in the recent past have worked away in Falmouth, Farnborough and Newcastle for several weeks at a time at each of those locations. Each is a long trip to and from the Midlands on a Monday and a Friday, and I was doing each of those trip in either one shift or with one coffee break of about 20 - 30 mins only (two for Falmouth).
I also travel to Norfolk on average every second weekend; a trip of about 110 miles without diversions. Road works or an accident on the A47 between Peterborough and Kings Lynn can lead to a 30-40 mile detour. I also travel to race meetings from Anglesey to Brands Hatch about 6-7 times a year, towing an enclosed trailer, total weight of about 2000Kg plus wind resistance. What would the range of an e-SUV be in those circumstances?
I use the same car for my commute, long distance travel and towing and expect to do most of my journeys without refueling, or with only very brief stops.
When I can drive from the Midlands to Anglesey race circuit, towing, a distance of about 160 miles, without stopping and with a decent contingency reserve of, say, about 40 miles, and can be guaranteed to re-charge for the return journey when I get there without having to mess about, I will think about changing to an e-SUV. That purchase would have to be available second hand (I never buy new cars); would have to cost no more than about £20-25K, would have to have a life expectancy of about 150K miles (on top of the mileage at purchase) and would have to be able to be serviced at a local garage 1 mile down the road. That's the car selection criteria I have now (except that my current vehicle will probably do about 300-350 miles between refuels when towing), and I would expect a vehicle to change to, to meet the same criteria.
Edited by andy97 on Thursday 10th January 12:37
BertBert said:
REALIST123 said:
Charging and range actually aren’t a deterrent to the majority. Anyone using their car for regular commutes and local use (the majority) doesn’t have a problem with either.
I think they are a deterrent. How many people have cars that are just for regular commutes and local use? Range anxiety is a huge problem.Bert
2/3 of commuters use cars for their commute the average length of that commute is around 10 miles.
That is over 16 million people commuting by car and mostly alone. Over half of the cars in the UK are therefore used for commuting.
The average commute would equate to an annual mileage of around 4600 pa. The average mileage of cars in the UK is under 8000. (Used to be 12000 but it’s falling partly due to us owning more cars per household).
So, statistically, half of the cars in the UK do half of their miles on 10 mile commutes.
Undoubtedly, much of the other mileage will be short trips well within any EV’s range.
Of course there’ll be some for whom they don’t work on account of range but not that many.
We have two cars, other than the 7, both petrol. We do lots of long runs that wouldn’t be achievable, reasonably, in an EV but we could certainly replace one with an EV were there any comparable to what we have for a similar price and specification.
REALIST123 said:
I said they aren’t a deterrent to the majority and the statistics bear that out.
2/3 of commuters use cars for their commute the average length of that commute is around 10 miles.
That is over 16 million people commuting by car and mostly alone. Over half of the cars in the UK are therefore used for commuting.
The average commute would equate to an annual mileage of around 4600 pa. The average mileage of cars in the UK is under 8000. (Used to be 12000 but it’s falling partly due to us owning more cars per household).
So, statistically, half of the cars in the UK do half of their miles on 10 mile commutes.
Undoubtedly, much of the other mileage will be short trips well within any EV’s range.
Of course there’ll be some for whom they don’t work on account of range but not that many.
We have two cars, other than the 7, both petrol. We do lots of long runs that wouldn’t be achievable, reasonably, in an EV but we could certainly replace one with an EV were there any comparable to what we have for a similar price and specification.
I've never seen such statistical nonsense. Are you seriously arguing that 8 mill cars are just used for their commute and have no other purpose? Our electric car does it's commute. But no s2/3 of commuters use cars for their commute the average length of that commute is around 10 miles.
That is over 16 million people commuting by car and mostly alone. Over half of the cars in the UK are therefore used for commuting.
The average commute would equate to an annual mileage of around 4600 pa. The average mileage of cars in the UK is under 8000. (Used to be 12000 but it’s falling partly due to us owning more cars per household).
So, statistically, half of the cars in the UK do half of their miles on 10 mile commutes.
Undoubtedly, much of the other mileage will be short trips well within any EV’s range.
Of course there’ll be some for whom they don’t work on account of range but not that many.
We have two cars, other than the 7, both petrol. We do lots of long runs that wouldn’t be achievable, reasonably, in an EV but we could certainly replace one with an EV were there any comparable to what we have for a similar price and specification.
t Sherlock, it had other uses, other journeys where range is absolutely a problem.Bert
BertBert said:
I think they are a deterrent. How many people have cars that are just for regular commutes and local use? Range anxiety is a huge problem.
Bert
I'm sure lots do. I only use my winter car for exactly that. I'm looking at changing the family vehicle for an EV at the end of this PCP period as it's mainly used by my wife for the same kind of journeys unless we're going on holiday or she is visiting family or friends at the other end of the country. That's one consideration we'll have to take into account but worst case we can hire an ICE vehicle for these trips. Bert
BertBert said:
REALIST123 said:
I said they aren’t a deterrent to the majority and the statistics bear that out.
2/3 of commuters use cars for their commute the average length of that commute is around 10 miles.
That is over 16 million people commuting by car and mostly alone. Over half of the cars in the UK are therefore used for commuting.
The average commute would equate to an annual mileage of around 4600 pa. The average mileage of cars in the UK is under 8000. (Used to be 12000 but it’s falling partly due to us owning more cars per household).
So, statistically, half of the cars in the UK do half of their miles on 10 mile commutes.
Undoubtedly, much of the other mileage will be short trips well within any EV’s range.
Of course there’ll be some for whom they don’t work on account of range but not that many.
We have two cars, other than the 7, both petrol. We do lots of long runs that wouldn’t be achievable, reasonably, in an EV but we could certainly replace one with an EV were there any comparable to what we have for a similar price and specification.
I've never seen such statistical nonsense. Are you seriously arguing that 8 mill cars are just used for their commute and have no other purpose? Our electric car does it's commute. But no s2/3 of commuters use cars for their commute the average length of that commute is around 10 miles.
That is over 16 million people commuting by car and mostly alone. Over half of the cars in the UK are therefore used for commuting.
The average commute would equate to an annual mileage of around 4600 pa. The average mileage of cars in the UK is under 8000. (Used to be 12000 but it’s falling partly due to us owning more cars per household).
So, statistically, half of the cars in the UK do half of their miles on 10 mile commutes.
Undoubtedly, much of the other mileage will be short trips well within any EV’s range.
Of course there’ll be some for whom they don’t work on account of range but not that many.
We have two cars, other than the 7, both petrol. We do lots of long runs that wouldn’t be achievable, reasonably, in an EV but we could certainly replace one with an EV were there any comparable to what we have for a similar price and specification.
t Sherlock, it had other uses, other journeys where range is absolutely a problem.Bert
Whatever, we all have our reasons; yours may be range anxiety but that isn’t supported, as a widespread factor, by any evidence that I can find
I think that even those massively in favour of electric vehicles as the way ahead would agree that for them to be successful in the forseable future users are going to have to change behaviours; eg stopping more frequently to charge, planning routes carefully to plolt where charging stations are, using different means of transport for longer journeys, leasing vehicles rather than buying (due to high capital cost and low secondhand options at the moment) etc etc.
Behavioural change is very difficult to accomplish and we have an undeniably car centred culture in the vast majority of the UK. Electric vehicles may be OK in the large urban conurbations, but for large swathes of the UK, they are just not sufficiently practical given current infrastructure. Which comes first, the infrastructure or the demand? I would argue that there needs to be a massive expenditure on electric charging infrastructure nationwide before electric vehicles become widespread.
Behavioural change is very difficult to accomplish and we have an undeniably car centred culture in the vast majority of the UK. Electric vehicles may be OK in the large urban conurbations, but for large swathes of the UK, they are just not sufficiently practical given current infrastructure. Which comes first, the infrastructure or the demand? I would argue that there needs to be a massive expenditure on electric charging infrastructure nationwide before electric vehicles become widespread.
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