buying first caterham - advice greatly appreciated
Discussion
rubystone said:
A few specific points
Also there are 2 positions for the rear trailing arms, the lower one is the one used for racing, you may want to change this if it's going to predominantly used on the road (look under the arch in front of the rear wheel)
Forgive my ignorance, but are there really trailing arms fitted to Caterhams?
What else keeps the de dion in place? Incorrigible is spot on.
Ok here are my £0.02P worth.
Like you I looked to join the Caterham clan. Went to club meets and read low flying and blatchat voraciously, bought and read all the books. I rejected the K series. The head gasket is too fragile. I rejected the Vauxhall cars, the engine is too heavy and corrupts the handling. So I went back to the Ford crossflow and bought a Supersprint.
I reckon this is the perfect entry level 7. IIRC it is 137 BHP which is nice but with far more torque than a K. It is de dion, long cockpit etc.
Look long and hard for your car and try many. You want one with a loving and knowledgable owner who has continuously upgraded it. For instance mine had been fitted with SPAX shockers and the head had been gasflowed and converted to unleaded. I have converted the front suspension to the full top wishbone and fitted an FIA roll over bar, nice steering wheel, etc.
Like you I looked to join the Caterham clan. Went to club meets and read low flying and blatchat voraciously, bought and read all the books. I rejected the K series. The head gasket is too fragile. I rejected the Vauxhall cars, the engine is too heavy and corrupts the handling. So I went back to the Ford crossflow and bought a Supersprint.
I reckon this is the perfect entry level 7. IIRC it is 137 BHP which is nice but with far more torque than a K. It is de dion, long cockpit etc.
Look long and hard for your car and try many. You want one with a loving and knowledgable owner who has continuously upgraded it. For instance mine had been fitted with SPAX shockers and the head had been gasflowed and converted to unleaded. I have converted the front suspension to the full top wishbone and fitted an FIA roll over bar, nice steering wheel, etc.
bruciebabie said:
Ok here are my £0.02P worth.
Like you I looked to join the Caterham clan. Went to club meets and read low flying and blatchat voraciously, bought and read all the books. I rejected the K series. The head gasket is too fragile. I rejected the Vauxhall cars, the engine is too heavy and corrupts the handling. So I went back to the Ford crossflow and bought a Supersprint.
I reckon this is the perfect entry level 7. IIRC it is 137 BHP which is nice but with far more torque than a K. It is de dion, long cockpit etc.
Look long and hard for your car and try many. You want one with a loving and knowledgable owner who has continuously upgraded it. For instance mine had been fitted with SPAX shockers and the head had been gasflowed and converted to unleaded. I have converted the front suspension to the full top wishbone and fitted an FIA roll over bar, nice steering wheel, etc.
Forgot to say 8 to 10K. Money in your pocket and less depreciation as the Ks will inevitably suffer from events.
Brucie - I own an VX HPC and took it on track at Brands last week, having done over 1,000 road miles and I can assure you that the engine DOES NOT corrupt the handling.
Yes, I thought that it would after having owned 3 K series cars including 2 SLRs, but having driven a few before taking the plunge, I was pleasantly surprised.
My car is fitted with widetrack, 13 inch wheels, lsd, quicker rack and big brakes and I have no doubt that this assists the handling.
Jaycee, the VX and xflows are totally different from a K. The K needs revving to get the best (althouggh in standard Roadsport trim with 5 speed, the engine is very tractable and perfect for cruising). The VX and xflow have loads of torque, with the latter not liking much revs at all, unless it's in a highly tuned state, in which case torque is sacrified for revs.
I can't recall what your budget is, nor what you want to use the car for, but say you have £10k to spend: Don't blow it on those overpriced xflows that hang around the 'net and classifieds for ages, don't squander it on the 1600 VX cars wiht live axles, don't even buy a VX 2 litre, buy a 1600 K Series Roadsport with a 5 speed 'box and cycle wings, preferably with an FIA bar and 13 or 14 inch wheels.
This car is the best intro to Seven motoring.
Yes, I thought that it would after having owned 3 K series cars including 2 SLRs, but having driven a few before taking the plunge, I was pleasantly surprised.
My car is fitted with widetrack, 13 inch wheels, lsd, quicker rack and big brakes and I have no doubt that this assists the handling.
Jaycee, the VX and xflows are totally different from a K. The K needs revving to get the best (althouggh in standard Roadsport trim with 5 speed, the engine is very tractable and perfect for cruising). The VX and xflow have loads of torque, with the latter not liking much revs at all, unless it's in a highly tuned state, in which case torque is sacrified for revs.
I can't recall what your budget is, nor what you want to use the car for, but say you have £10k to spend: Don't blow it on those overpriced xflows that hang around the 'net and classifieds for ages, don't squander it on the 1600 VX cars wiht live axles, don't even buy a VX 2 litre, buy a 1600 K Series Roadsport with a 5 speed 'box and cycle wings, preferably with an FIA bar and 13 or 14 inch wheels.
This car is the best intro to Seven motoring.
Thanks rubystone...
Have a very 'torquey' road car (330d) and really want a toy that you can rev, don't see changing up at 4,000 fun.
Don't really have a fixed budget was gonna start at £12ish and then maybe upgrade, saying that would happily pay more for the right car.
Back to the hunt for a K-then.....
have put a wanted add on here if anyone knows a good car being sold?
Thanks
Jon
Have a very 'torquey' road car (330d) and really want a toy that you can rev, don't see changing up at 4,000 fun.
Don't really have a fixed budget was gonna start at £12ish and then maybe upgrade, saying that would happily pay more for the right car.
Back to the hunt for a K-then.....
have put a wanted add on here if anyone knows a good car being sold?
Thanks
Jon
Been reading this thread as I am in the same boat. What's the real story behind the K series reliabilty? Also, a subject that hasn't been mentioned here too much - servicing costs. Who are thew best people and how much should be put aside per year for servicing? Also many of the mid 90s cars have had engine rebuilds - how necessary/expensive/often is this? All help greatly appreciated.
Bill
Bill
Jaycee, A Superlight is the best K to my mind - for a beginner. Cheapest I've seen is £13,500, with the average price being £15k. That has all the desirable bits and offers the best platform for upgrades and ought to hold its money better.
Having said that, a 6 speed Supersport is cheaper and has most of the same toys as the SL. POORCARDEALER sold one for £11k some months ago. IIRC there's one for sale right now, on PH?
K Series are generally very reliable, certainly up to the 160 bhp level. Beyond that, in my experience (!) they are not bulletproof.
Servicing is to my mind expensive at all the so called "Caterham service agents" that I have used. I've never been disappointed with the work that has been done though. Who you use depends really on where you live. I've recently used Steve Parker Racing in Stansted and his labour rates are very low and his work seems fine. I'd recommend him to others, certainly.
Having said that, a 6 speed Supersport is cheaper and has most of the same toys as the SL. POORCARDEALER sold one for £11k some months ago. IIRC there's one for sale right now, on PH?
K Series are generally very reliable, certainly up to the 160 bhp level. Beyond that, in my experience (!) they are not bulletproof.
Servicing is to my mind expensive at all the so called "Caterham service agents" that I have used. I've never been disappointed with the work that has been done though. Who you use depends really on where you live. I've recently used Steve Parker Racing in Stansted and his labour rates are very low and his work seems fine. I'd recommend him to others, certainly.
supersport/superlight is gonna have to be. My only other problem is my lazyness?! I have to admit travelling the length of the country for one doesn't appeal. What if you get to Landsend and it turns out to be a dud? If I take my time I know the right car will come along?! Although a pending local track day in Llandow does look very appealing for the 11th June.......
Ruby has it on the nose I think. Intro car - get a 6spd Supersport or a Superlight, the latter being the preference.
Don't bother with a 5spd K series unless the 5spd has had its ratios modified. Ruby will sigh here, but he likes pink Porsches and his first seven had red wings. On a green car. He's also growing a moustache, and will be buying a medallion and wearing his shirt open very soon.
If you live in Wales, however, be prepared to travel to find a good car as most are in the South East (I believe some demographic was done that put the majority of cars a short ride away from Caterham itself).
There are a couple of SLs available on Blatchat at around 15k I think.
Reliability - the K has its issues, chief amongst them cooling. If the car's been serviced correctly, has the correct coolant in it and is currently running OK, chances are it's fine.
However, if the coolant levels are down, or you need to add more etc, you need to ensure you add coolant carefully and that the system is properly bled. Otherwise they can overheat and the head gaskets can go.
Also check to see if it's had this trouble before. The head sometimes warps after cooling issues. They can be skimmed, but not infinitely.
Ks also suffer from oil starvation if used hard round corners (right handers I think!). An Apollo tank helps with this (bit more oil in the system, and helps ensure that the oil that is there is air free), but it is not a failsafe. The only way to be safe with oil is to get a dry sump system.
Other than that, they're a quality, lightweight engine. And can be made to sound truly excellent.
Nice as the XFlow is, it's one for the "classic" enthusiast these days I think, not the beginner.
Don't bother with a 5spd K series unless the 5spd has had its ratios modified. Ruby will sigh here, but he likes pink Porsches and his first seven had red wings. On a green car. He's also growing a moustache, and will be buying a medallion and wearing his shirt open very soon.
If you live in Wales, however, be prepared to travel to find a good car as most are in the South East (I believe some demographic was done that put the majority of cars a short ride away from Caterham itself).
There are a couple of SLs available on Blatchat at around 15k I think.
Reliability - the K has its issues, chief amongst them cooling. If the car's been serviced correctly, has the correct coolant in it and is currently running OK, chances are it's fine.
However, if the coolant levels are down, or you need to add more etc, you need to ensure you add coolant carefully and that the system is properly bled. Otherwise they can overheat and the head gaskets can go.
Also check to see if it's had this trouble before. The head sometimes warps after cooling issues. They can be skimmed, but not infinitely.
Ks also suffer from oil starvation if used hard round corners (right handers I think!). An Apollo tank helps with this (bit more oil in the system, and helps ensure that the oil that is there is air free), but it is not a failsafe. The only way to be safe with oil is to get a dry sump system.
Other than that, they're a quality, lightweight engine. And can be made to sound truly excellent.
Nice as the XFlow is, it's one for the "classic" enthusiast these days I think, not the beginner.
Sorry to be a pain, but putting figures on annual servicing costs? Say roughly £400 pa? And from what is said here, a 1.6K shouldn't be too stressed so as to be trouble with head gaskets. What are the thoughts on the 1.4k? Finally at 6'3" will I simply be too big to fit?
Many thanks again!
Bill
Many thanks again!
Bill
I'm 6'4" when I can summon up the strength to overcome the gravitational effects on my gut, and the wrong side of 16 stone (could well be the wrong side of 17 stone these days, but who cares).
I fit in a standard chassis car, BUT.
I have a removable, 260mm wheel. Bench seats and the pedals set out as far as they will go (though I suspect this latter factor wasn't critical).
I tried a 93 car prior to the one I eventually bought (a 95) and it didn't fit - almost certainly down to S-type seats, plus and a "big" Motolita wheel.
It may also have been down to the better spec of the other car luring me away
And that first car? A 1400K Supersport with 6 speed box. Dull it was not. Cracking car it was (watched Star Wars yesterday).
The only reasons I would rule one out knowing what I do now are (a) most of the 1400 engines Caterham used couldn't be upgraded beyond 1400. Something to do with the liner config I think and (b) the 1600 can be made to rev as nicely and has more tuning potential should you feel thus inclined. I know someone who had the thick end of 240bhp from a 1600K!!
Do NOT be tempted by a K with a 5spd box unless that box has modified ratios. THAT is the definition of dull.
Please try to make sure you try everything possible to squeeze into a standard car. It feels impossibly small and tight at first, but once used to it you are absolutely part of the car and can chuck it around with amazing ease.
I tried an SV and felt like I was rattling round in it - really didn't feel like driving a 7, even though I know they are good cars!
I fit in a standard chassis car, BUT.
I have a removable, 260mm wheel. Bench seats and the pedals set out as far as they will go (though I suspect this latter factor wasn't critical).
I tried a 93 car prior to the one I eventually bought (a 95) and it didn't fit - almost certainly down to S-type seats, plus and a "big" Motolita wheel.
It may also have been down to the better spec of the other car luring me away
And that first car? A 1400K Supersport with 6 speed box. Dull it was not. Cracking car it was (watched Star Wars yesterday).
The only reasons I would rule one out knowing what I do now are (a) most of the 1400 engines Caterham used couldn't be upgraded beyond 1400. Something to do with the liner config I think and (b) the 1600 can be made to rev as nicely and has more tuning potential should you feel thus inclined. I know someone who had the thick end of 240bhp from a 1600K!!
Do NOT be tempted by a K with a 5spd box unless that box has modified ratios. THAT is the definition of dull.
Please try to make sure you try everything possible to squeeze into a standard car. It feels impossibly small and tight at first, but once used to it you are absolutely part of the car and can chuck it around with amazing ease.
I tried an SV and felt like I was rattling round in it - really didn't feel like driving a 7, even though I know they are good cars!
murph7355 said:
Do NOT be tempted by a K with a 5spd box unless that box has modified ratios. THAT is the definition of dull.
So why then Mr M, did you set me up with a 5 speed 1600 Supersport then????? That car wasn't dull :no:
A 1400 with a 5 speed is most definitely a dull car - I think we'll agree on that one.
Given the choice of a 6 speed 1400 SS or a 5 speed 1600 SS I'd have the latter everyday. It is a good first Caterham and will also be far more saleable further down the road
rubystone said:
So why then Mr M, did you set me up with a 5 speed 1600 Supersport then????? That car wasn't dull :no:
IIRC (for it was some time ago), I said it was a nice car missing a 6 speed box! I also mentioned that the colour scheme wasn't to my liking.
If you recall, your thrifty nature won out though as that car was cheap!
The 5spd box was designed to be put into Sierras towing caravans to Mablethorpe. By people who woud have preferred an automatic Sierra if funds had allowed.
The 6spd box was designed for....the 1400K SS engine. For people who love changing gears and wringing the best out of a car.
And a 1600 engine is cheaper to buy later than a 6spd box.
Anyway, we should stop bickering. You know I'm right, and whichever car these guys end up with, as long as it has "Caterham" on it, they'll love it!
Bill, there's a really nice sounding Superlight on Blatchat for under £15k - I'd say that it might be bought for £14,500 - and it's only covered 4,900 miles or thereabouts....check it out....
www.blatchat.com/t.asp?Id=84392
Andy, yes that car was cheap and also a lot of fun and an ideal intro to Sevens. I agree that any Caterham will be fun and offers a different dimension of motoring, regardless of its model type.
www.blatchat.com/t.asp?Id=84392
Andy, yes that car was cheap and also a lot of fun and an ideal intro to Sevens. I agree that any Caterham will be fun and offers a different dimension of motoring, regardless of its model type.
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