K-series Caterham for sub 11k... possible??
Discussion
GetCarter said:
Not a lot of space for the dog.
Seriously, the 'all weather' stuff doesn't stop all the weather. If you want to turn up to work in a suit, it ain't the car for you.
Haha cheers, good job I haven't got a dog then? Yeah I know what owning a Caterham entails, it's more of a practical bike rather than an impractical car. I was hoping for some more specific info on driving a carbureted caterham everyday as opposed to an injected one. Seriously, the 'all weather' stuff doesn't stop all the weather. If you want to turn up to work in a suit, it ain't the car for you.
Edited by GetCarter on Monday 10th June 16:19
IAmTupperware said:
Haha cheers, good job I haven't got a dog then? Yeah I know what owning a Caterham entails, it's more of a practical bike rather than an impractical car. I was hoping for some more specific info on driving a carbureted caterham everyday as opposed to an injected one.
There are other things to worry about before your concerns about carburation or fuel injection keep you awake. We survived with carburetors for years - decades - before fuel injection became the norm.Direct your worries more towards in car entertainment, air conditioning and heated seats.
IAmTupperware said:
From looking at comparison sites, I should be able to afford the quotes i'm getting back.
Does anyone else have any experience of running a carb'd Caterham as a daily or almost daily?
Sorry I forgot to answer last night, The 1600 Crossflow on twin webers was my daily for 6 months and it was absolutely fine with no issues whatsoever and didn't require any special maintenance at all other than the usual once over if doing a longish trip. if there is a carb'd car available on budget, then certainly don't be put off by the low(er) tech approachDoes anyone else have any experience of running a carb'd Caterham as a daily or almost daily?
IAmTupperware said:
Thanks for your message. That is really helpful and has made me feel slightly better about an earlier carb'd car. Insurance is just so funny, it is about £300 cheaper for me to insure a Caterham than to insure an Abarth 595. I guess its all down to crash statistics?
I am not too worried about both the rain and dark issues you mention. Partly because the mx5 is also pretty low and i always have the roof down. Not much difference there. I will also probably put LEDs on the Caterham. Still worth a thought though as you said.
I am not too worried about both the rain and dark issues you mention. Partly because the mx5 is also pretty low and i always have the roof down. Not much difference there. I will also probably put LEDs on the Caterham. Still worth a thought though as you said.
GetCarter said:
Not a lot of space for the dog.
Seriously, the 'all weather' stuff doesn't stop all the weather. If you want to turn up to work in a suit, it ain't the car for you.
I've had a reasonably sized dog in the passenger seat for short journeys of half an hour so before.Seriously, the 'all weather' stuff doesn't stop all the weather. If you want to turn up to work in a suit, it ain't the car for you.
But yes, the amount of water that gets in really doesn't compare to that of an MX5 its just not the same thing, with the roof on it probably is better than a motorbike on the road in the same conditions but without the roof probably more similar.
- Without any front wings to speak of, the spray of the front wheels has to be seen to be believed and obviously you are in it permanently.
- The aerodynamics are closer to a brick than a production soft top, so without a roof all the spray comes in, the inside of the screen, eyes, back of neck.
- None of it seals at all. I got quite serious about trying to get foam around the edge of the side screens, but they are not doors, and half an hour would still wet a bath towel through soaking up what was coming in the bottom of the door, at times it was streaming across the inside of the screens.
- You also dont have any drivers aids. So its easy to lock the front wheels and slide and on doing so panic and hold the pedal down far too long, you will do this a fair few times till you get the measure of not having abs. Its also super easy to break traction under power in the wet, which again will catch you out a few times even after being pre-warned. You have a light powerful rwd car with no traction control, stability control, at all, aka the TVR effect. Everyone says exit of roundabouts, they said it to me, I was aware of it, but I still got caught out once and being gentle in 3rd had a big sideways movement in front of a truck pulling away from a dual carriageway roundabout in the wet.
Same with the driving in the dark, its not on a par with a production car certainly not an mx5. Even with Philips 'nightbreakers' in mine is much worse the my mates 80's Scirocco.
- Most of them have appalling lights on them, the beam pattern on 4inch dominators I have being right down the list.
- They are low, in scale with the car, but 2/3 height of a low production car which makes a real difference and creates huge shadows on the road if there is any undulation.
- You are low. Again on another scale, with grp seats my arse is literally 4inchs from the road. Thats lower than if you put an Mx5 seat on the floor let alone in the car. This hugely effects your view of the road and as you are looking through the headlights not over them, your depth perception. It also puts you eyes at the headlight level of normal cars.
- If its wet, you have the aforementioned biblical amounts of spray to contend with, and added glare from oncoming cars.
I'm not saying it cant be done, because I have done it. However you do end up finding a slow moving van and following its tail lights, or just avoiding driving in the dark if its raining (or rain if its dark) dark alone is reasonably, rain is ok if your ok with being damp/wet, but combined they are to be avoided.
I once nearly drove straight into the railing fence and traffic lights of a pedestrian crossing when I drifted into a bus layby at 30mph because the only thing I could see to follow was the curb, all while lines where lost, and to get any bearing at all I wasn't looking far enough ahead to see the traffic lights where now in front of me not at the side of the road. This was on a road I knew, and took avoiding action late enough I lost the back end, which was punted around by the curb, sending me broadside into the oncoming traffic (headlights at eye level remember) before getting it back together again. This was one a road I knew well, driving out of the town I had lived in for two years on of two roads out.
Obviously laying this on thick, and there are others who have done it, and likely got it working better with improved headlights, different front wings, and the like. However everything I say is a factually accurate description of being early 20's driving a cost-effective seven-type as a young adult. Most who try to have one as a sole car either have a life which means they can avoid driving when the conditions are wrong, or quickly find they need another car to drive.
IAmTupperware said:
That's just ridiculous! I haven't tried the likes of Adrian Flux and Lloyd White yet. I have been with Adrian Flux for quite some time up until September last year so hopefully that will account towards something. They seem much more relaxed about modifications.
It obviously must be down to the claims stats. I presume that in the main people are statistically less likely to crash, which I can well believe, based on the fact they are very rarely first cars and you feel fairly exposed which removes an amount of young drives felling of invincibility. The majority of the crashes you do see also don't involve a 3rd party which I guess helps, and if they do you are in a lighter car. Owners usually also do their own repairs if minor, and or are I expect pragmatic with repairs and injury clams.My westfield cost me £4k back in 2008 and insurance costs where inline with whats mentioned. Footman James, Adrian Flux, MSM, A-plan, etc.
Daniel
I daily'd my Caterham for nearly a year before I converted it for racing.
It's not a 'cool' car, is it. but people like it. A random pedestrian once accused me of having borrowed the car from my Dad. As a teenager, you don't really conform to the usual demographic (mortgage paid, kids through uni, second, 'toy' car). On the plus side I got much less attention from the traffpol than I did in my first car (a Clio).
As has already been said in this thread, you have to think of the Caterham as being closer to a motorbike than a car. It's not going to keep you and your passenger / luggage dry, warm and secure. You can't leave anything in it. Even a pay-and-display ticket is at risk.
Indeed the whole car is at risk. Anybody can get in. I once popped into a pizza takeaway and came out to find drunk people playing in it. Most road cars have an ignition barrel with a steering lock but some don't. Many don't have immobilisers. If someone wanted to nick it, it'd be very easy indeed. If they didn't want to nick it, they could just let the handbrake off and send it on its merry way down the hill.
You sit very low compared to other road users. Your head is below the level of surrounding cars and vans, which means you are regularly getting a face full of glare through the windscreen or from the vehicle behind via your mirrors. You feel quite exposed / vulnerable. Side impact protection is non existent. The chassis are quite strong but at 500kg the laws of physics are stacked against you if you find yourself in an accident with another vehicle. I used to periodically wonder what the resulting scene would look like if I accidently went through a barbed wire fence or a wooden gate.
Four-point harnesses aren't much of an inconvenience at all to a driver once you're used to them but it's a palaver when you want to get an uninitiated or unwilling passenger strapped in
You obviously get no driver aids. The low weight of the car means that it is very easy to lock the brakes in an emergency. If your experience is limited to 'modern' cars this feels pretty alarming and it takes a lot of practice and experience to recover control if you are locked up in a corner. If you are locked up and you can't get the wheel turning again you are probably on a straight trajectory towards the obstacle you were trying to avoid. This might not be too much of a factor depending on tyre choice. I had Avon CR322s, it was a factor in cold or wet conditions.
The visability out of the standard windscreen, wipers and sidescreen combo can be pretty poor especially as there are no wipers at all on the inside. The headlights are pretty poor. The indicators work in a similar way to motorbike ones. That is, you indicate at the first junction of your journey and the indicator invariably remains on until you need to indicate again. Some cars do have a tell tale buzzer- it makes a retro noise like a wind-up alarm clock. The standard gauges aren't accurate. If you want to know how fast you're going, what the water temperature and oil pressure are etc you will probably need to upgrade them. You will wish you had a more accurate fuel gauge as the tank only holds eight gallons. If your car is carbureted like mine was, you won't get much more than 25mpg. I was filling up every 180 miles.
Caterhams aren't aerodynamic. You are going to need to wear some kind of eye protection at all times to prevent your eyes from streaming. Your baseball hat isn't going to stay on. The wind noise is even louder than the already very loud engine, transmission and tyre noise. It's pretty tiring on the motorway.
I don't need to type out the positives because you know those.
As you have probably deduced, this lot means that your whole driving experience, like riding a motorbike, is very weather dependent. Your drive to work may be beautiful on a crisp, dry day. Nothing better. Equally on your way home you could be sat in traffic being soaked, steamed, blinded and poisoned by exhaust fumes all at the same time.
The main thing that would put me off having a Caterham as an only car again, though, is the guilt- The car will corrode if it's wet or salty. If you abuse it as you would a normal car, it's condition is going to constantly deteriorate at a rate much greater than a proper car. A garage is a must.
I'll have a Caterham again. I'll probably use it more than most Caterham owners (!) but I will have a 'normal' car as well, so that when I have to do a long motorway journey, or a lot of inner city traffic, or if the gritting trucks have been out, I can sit in a well-ventilated, dry space and listen to King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard on the stereo.
It's not a 'cool' car, is it. but people like it. A random pedestrian once accused me of having borrowed the car from my Dad. As a teenager, you don't really conform to the usual demographic (mortgage paid, kids through uni, second, 'toy' car). On the plus side I got much less attention from the traffpol than I did in my first car (a Clio).
As has already been said in this thread, you have to think of the Caterham as being closer to a motorbike than a car. It's not going to keep you and your passenger / luggage dry, warm and secure. You can't leave anything in it. Even a pay-and-display ticket is at risk.
Indeed the whole car is at risk. Anybody can get in. I once popped into a pizza takeaway and came out to find drunk people playing in it. Most road cars have an ignition barrel with a steering lock but some don't. Many don't have immobilisers. If someone wanted to nick it, it'd be very easy indeed. If they didn't want to nick it, they could just let the handbrake off and send it on its merry way down the hill.
You sit very low compared to other road users. Your head is below the level of surrounding cars and vans, which means you are regularly getting a face full of glare through the windscreen or from the vehicle behind via your mirrors. You feel quite exposed / vulnerable. Side impact protection is non existent. The chassis are quite strong but at 500kg the laws of physics are stacked against you if you find yourself in an accident with another vehicle. I used to periodically wonder what the resulting scene would look like if I accidently went through a barbed wire fence or a wooden gate.
Four-point harnesses aren't much of an inconvenience at all to a driver once you're used to them but it's a palaver when you want to get an uninitiated or unwilling passenger strapped in
You obviously get no driver aids. The low weight of the car means that it is very easy to lock the brakes in an emergency. If your experience is limited to 'modern' cars this feels pretty alarming and it takes a lot of practice and experience to recover control if you are locked up in a corner. If you are locked up and you can't get the wheel turning again you are probably on a straight trajectory towards the obstacle you were trying to avoid. This might not be too much of a factor depending on tyre choice. I had Avon CR322s, it was a factor in cold or wet conditions.
The visability out of the standard windscreen, wipers and sidescreen combo can be pretty poor especially as there are no wipers at all on the inside. The headlights are pretty poor. The indicators work in a similar way to motorbike ones. That is, you indicate at the first junction of your journey and the indicator invariably remains on until you need to indicate again. Some cars do have a tell tale buzzer- it makes a retro noise like a wind-up alarm clock. The standard gauges aren't accurate. If you want to know how fast you're going, what the water temperature and oil pressure are etc you will probably need to upgrade them. You will wish you had a more accurate fuel gauge as the tank only holds eight gallons. If your car is carbureted like mine was, you won't get much more than 25mpg. I was filling up every 180 miles.
Caterhams aren't aerodynamic. You are going to need to wear some kind of eye protection at all times to prevent your eyes from streaming. Your baseball hat isn't going to stay on. The wind noise is even louder than the already very loud engine, transmission and tyre noise. It's pretty tiring on the motorway.
I don't need to type out the positives because you know those.
As you have probably deduced, this lot means that your whole driving experience, like riding a motorbike, is very weather dependent. Your drive to work may be beautiful on a crisp, dry day. Nothing better. Equally on your way home you could be sat in traffic being soaked, steamed, blinded and poisoned by exhaust fumes all at the same time.
The main thing that would put me off having a Caterham as an only car again, though, is the guilt- The car will corrode if it's wet or salty. If you abuse it as you would a normal car, it's condition is going to constantly deteriorate at a rate much greater than a proper car. A garage is a must.
I'll have a Caterham again. I'll probably use it more than most Caterham owners (!) but I will have a 'normal' car as well, so that when I have to do a long motorway journey, or a lot of inner city traffic, or if the gritting trucks have been out, I can sit in a well-ventilated, dry space and listen to King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard on the stereo.
Thanks for all the replies guys. There is definitely a lot to consider but I have been considering dailying one since I was about 6.
Regarding corrosion, I am planning on taking very good care of it and I will be very Liberal with treating it. Owning a mk1 mx5 has taught quite a bit about this!
Again, the mk1 mx5 also has candles for headlights. Granted its much higher but I plan on putting led lights on the Caterham.
65 years ago, men my age were up to their necks in mud with bullets flying over their heads. If I can't handle getting a bit damp on my commute to a heated office with showers then something isn't right.
Regarding corrosion, I am planning on taking very good care of it and I will be very Liberal with treating it. Owning a mk1 mx5 has taught quite a bit about this!
Again, the mk1 mx5 also has candles for headlights. Granted its much higher but I plan on putting led lights on the Caterham.
65 years ago, men my age were up to their necks in mud with bullets flying over their heads. If I can't handle getting a bit damp on my commute to a heated office with showers then something isn't right.
Don't believe all the rhetoric about Sevens retaining their value . They do better than most cars but although everyone talks up the value , the reality (on my experience ) is that if the car has decent miles on , nobody wants to buy it- despite all the usual guff about regularly driven cars being better than ones that are hardly used .
Example - but from some years ago so things may have changed. In 1997 I bought an ex Caterham built and motor show exhibited 1.4KSS . Immaculate , 19k miles and £14K .I kept the car for 9 years, never used in winter and upgraded to a VVC 160 engine . The wisdom of the Seven community was to ask £12,.500 . Two months later , I sold it for £8k - various people loved the car but all said '50k plus miles - sorry mate .'
I had committed the cardinal sin of actually DRIVING my car
So keep looking ...
Example - but from some years ago so things may have changed. In 1997 I bought an ex Caterham built and motor show exhibited 1.4KSS . Immaculate , 19k miles and £14K .I kept the car for 9 years, never used in winter and upgraded to a VVC 160 engine . The wisdom of the Seven community was to ask £12,.500 . Two months later , I sold it for £8k - various people loved the car but all said '50k plus miles - sorry mate .'
I had committed the cardinal sin of actually DRIVING my car
So keep looking ...
I was doing the same about 6 years ago. Ended up finding a de Dion Crossflow that had been fitted with a 2.0 Zetec with around 200bhp.
Personally, after trying the half-hood it came with, I unbolted all the normal hood stuff and stored it in the garage, never to see the light of day again. Only ever got a slightly damp right shoulder in really heavy rain. The soft bits for send half good is really good, and I can get it on at a set of traffic lights.
Drove it daily for 3 years, my partner is a locum, so I was often driving 2-3 hours on a Friday night and Monday morning to see her, and never had a problem, generally arriving in better shape than before. Sort of keeps you awake driving open top in the winter!
My advice is that a heater is a necessity, and remarkably effective with the hood on. Carry a supply of those little sponge chamois. Get a sheepskin flying style helmet with ear flaps. 2 sets of gloves, one "driving" gloves and one set of furry warm ones, you do not need ultimate feel and control on a cold day, you need to be able to feel your fingers! I've got the leather seats, and they are very comfy, but the bases have deteriorated quite a bit. Still I would stay with them as they provide a fair chunk of bum insulation.
For an ammeter if not already on the car, and get one of the small jump start li-ion packs (£50 Costco) the Caterham battery is tiny. I've used that pack to start a Saab 9-5 that hadn't started in months. Very good piece of kit. Fit a cigarette lighter/power point, can go under dash so you can't see it.
I would probably want to have a spare wheel carrier as well if you are doing lots of miles, plus it doubles up as somewhere else to put stuff when carrying lots of gear. See below![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/8UM8E2bE.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/PHji25Gz" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/PHji25Gz.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/PHji25Gz" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/PHji25Gz.jpg)
Personally, after trying the half-hood it came with, I unbolted all the normal hood stuff and stored it in the garage, never to see the light of day again. Only ever got a slightly damp right shoulder in really heavy rain. The soft bits for send half good is really good, and I can get it on at a set of traffic lights.
Drove it daily for 3 years, my partner is a locum, so I was often driving 2-3 hours on a Friday night and Monday morning to see her, and never had a problem, generally arriving in better shape than before. Sort of keeps you awake driving open top in the winter!
My advice is that a heater is a necessity, and remarkably effective with the hood on. Carry a supply of those little sponge chamois. Get a sheepskin flying style helmet with ear flaps. 2 sets of gloves, one "driving" gloves and one set of furry warm ones, you do not need ultimate feel and control on a cold day, you need to be able to feel your fingers! I've got the leather seats, and they are very comfy, but the bases have deteriorated quite a bit. Still I would stay with them as they provide a fair chunk of bum insulation.
For an ammeter if not already on the car, and get one of the small jump start li-ion packs (£50 Costco) the Caterham battery is tiny. I've used that pack to start a Saab 9-5 that hadn't started in months. Very good piece of kit. Fit a cigarette lighter/power point, can go under dash so you can't see it.
I would probably want to have a spare wheel carrier as well if you are doing lots of miles, plus it doubles up as somewhere else to put stuff when carrying lots of gear. See below
IAmTupperware said:
Thanks for all the replies guys. There is definitely a lot to consider but I have been considering dailying one since I was about 6.
Regarding corrosion, I am planning on taking very good care of it and I will be very Liberal with treating it. Owning a mk1 mx5 has taught quite a bit about this!
Again, the mk1 mx5 also has candles for headlights. Granted its much higher but I plan on putting led lights on the Caterham.
65 years ago, men my age were up to their necks in mud with bullets flying over their heads. If I can't handle getting a bit damp on my commute to a heated office with showers then something isn't right.
65 years ago (a bit longer actually) they didnt have much choice. Regarding corrosion, I am planning on taking very good care of it and I will be very Liberal with treating it. Owning a mk1 mx5 has taught quite a bit about this!
Again, the mk1 mx5 also has candles for headlights. Granted its much higher but I plan on putting led lights on the Caterham.
65 years ago, men my age were up to their necks in mud with bullets flying over their heads. If I can't handle getting a bit damp on my commute to a heated office with showers then something isn't right.
In all honesty the thought of having to use my 7 as a daily makes me cringe; I can’t think of anything worse on 4 wheels.
As for corrosion, on an £11k car, anything you do isn’t going to matter much. It’ll depend on what the previous owners have done and many aren’t so keen.
A left field idea, maybe a halfway house solution of getting an NA VX220? £10k would get you a good example with mid to low mileage, no rust issues to worry about, more livable day to day than a Caterham but still a more epic experience than an MX5 to drive (with no offence meant to the MX5 owners on here). Appreciate your dream since a young 'un has been a caterham but the VX would be a good stop gap until you have the proper funds and you are unlikely to lose any money on it.
Edited by coldel on Wednesday 12th June 08:58
coldel said:
A left field idea, maybe a halfway house solution of getting an NA VX220? £10k would get you a good example with mid to low mileage, no rust issues to worry about, more livable day to day than a Caterham but still a more epic experience than an MX5 to drive (with no offence meant to the MX5 owners on here). Appreciate your dream since a young 'un has been a caterham but the VX would be a good stop gap until you have the proper funds and you are unlikely to lose any money on it.
Dont they come with their own issues though? Lights that fog up and are expensive to repair and the bodywork can be a problem, if you crack the clam they are very expensive to replace.Edited by coldel on Wednesday 12th June 08:58
Great cars though and a better daily.
DoubleD said:
Dont they come with their own issues though? Lights that fog up and are expensive to repair and the bodywork can be a problem, if you crack the clam they are very expensive to replace.
Great cars though and a better daily.
Every car has its issues but I find the VX less of a worry than most. Lights that fog just need a new lens/resealing - lenses sold on the forum. Clams are available now but still a fairly big repair if you crash it, so don't! What I am saying is that for 10k you will likely get a top 20% VX with loads of work done vs scraping the bottom priced Caterhams at £10k which are potentially more hidden issues to deal with. For £8k you could get a good one and stick money back in your pocket.Great cars though and a better daily.
60k miles on a VX is nothing really, but if it bothers you then swerve them. If you have your heart set on a Caterham then go for it, it was just an idea. I have always tried to get a better car rather than a 'project' and has served me well owning an R33 Skyline, GT4 Celica, two VXs with minimal issues to deal with each time.
DoubleD said:
coldel said:
DoubleD said:
Im not the OP, just interested in the thread.
Ah s
t! Sorry 
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