RE: Caterham reveals new engine
Discussion
scuffham said:
Have owned a K-Series powered Superlight for a number of years now and it is a great engine. True it has some flaws but a lot of the HG failures are to do with dodgy radiators, thermostats or incorrect coolant rather than engine design. It is a very lightweight engine and was way ahead of its time when it was produced.
That said it is now out of production and the time has come for a new engine. Caterham have broken world records, won races and made a lot of people very happy with this engine, why slate it so much?
All I can suggest mate is that you take off the glasses and see what they are really like...
K was a great design, cutting edge stuff in it's day, small, light, cheap, etc. but it was never designed to be a 1.8 (or 1.6 for that matter) and once your into 1.8's with real power, then your basically a *bang* waiting to happen. There are zelots that say you can make 240Bhp totally reliable engines, but I have yet to meet one such engine out in the wilds of race tracks.
Duratech is as light, bigger CC, way less problematic, cheaper, more powerfull, etc etc etc.
You're sounding very like the people who say "All TVRs are unreliable". The Ford engine is better (and I should hope so given how much newer it is) but as lots of cars currently have the K-Series, upgrading to a Duratech is A LOT more expensive than slotting in another K-Series.
Good news this as it can only encourage the tunersand suppliers to do more for this cracking engine.
You may or may not know that the newly-launched Westfield 1.6 range is also to utilise it. Burton Power Products (Ford tuners and tuning parts retailers) and now beginning to get parts for these but lack of demand has until now held it back.
Can't believe it's taken until now for Westfield or Caterham to go down this route, engines started as 1.25 in Fiesta/Mazda 121 from around 1995, furthest development so far was the 1.7 Puma Cup (155bhp or so).
Been thinking of upgrading engine in the Westie from elderly though sound Crossflow, looks like it's game on!
You may or may not know that the newly-launched Westfield 1.6 range is also to utilise it. Burton Power Products (Ford tuners and tuning parts retailers) and now beginning to get parts for these but lack of demand has until now held it back.
Can't believe it's taken until now for Westfield or Caterham to go down this route, engines started as 1.25 in Fiesta/Mazda 121 from around 1995, furthest development so far was the 1.7 Puma Cup (155bhp or so).
Been thinking of upgrading engine in the Westie from elderly though sound Crossflow, looks like it's game on!
[/quote]
You're sounding very like the people who say "All TVRs are unreliable". [/quote]
Does anyone actually ever say that though ? Its obviously flawed logic .... but "TVR's are unreliable" is certainly true. Even if you designed an engine to fail after 1000 miles there would probably always be a few that went on to clock up 90,000 miles. Single tales mean nothing, its all about the wider statistics.
You're sounding very like the people who say "All TVRs are unreliable". [/quote]
Does anyone actually ever say that though ? Its obviously flawed logic .... but "TVR's are unreliable" is certainly true. Even if you designed an engine to fail after 1000 miles there would probably always be a few that went on to clock up 90,000 miles. Single tales mean nothing, its all about the wider statistics.
Having owned both a TVR and various rovers / MG's I really can't see what people are on about. My TVR never missed a beat, My Rovers and MG's also never caused me a problem, no engine failers etc. Personally it seems to my that only people who never actually owned either of these marques are the ones that moan about them, funny how its always a friends car etc that failed.
And I drove all my cars HARD!
fyi the cars were TVR S2, MGF, MG ZS180, Rover 416, 2*Rover 216 cab
Of course a mechanic is going to see a lot of k series heads fail, there are a lot of them out there! if the owners had serviced them properly I dare say that most wouldn't have failed.
just my 2p's worth
And I drove all my cars HARD!
fyi the cars were TVR S2, MGF, MG ZS180, Rover 416, 2*Rover 216 cab
Of course a mechanic is going to see a lot of k series heads fail, there are a lot of them out there! if the owners had serviced them properly I dare say that most wouldn't have failed.
just my 2p's worth
smilerbaker said:
Having owned both a TVR and various rovers / MG's I really can't see what people are on about. My TVR never missed a beat, My Rovers and MG's also never caused me a problem, no engine failers etc. Personally it seems to my that only people who never actually owned either of these marques are the ones that moan about them, funny how its always a friends car etc that failed.
And I drove all my cars HARD!
fyi the cars were TVR S2, MGF, MG ZS180, Rover 416, 2*Rover 216 cab
Of course a mechanic is going to see a lot of k series heads fail, there are a lot of them out there! if the owners had serviced them properly I dare say that most wouldn't have failed.
just my 2p's worth
Like i say, its about statistics rather than the individual stories such as your own. e.g. number of units produced versus number of units replaced or repaired under warranty.... the speed 6 and the K series being a case in point.
ewenm said:
Not had any problems with my 1.6 K-Series and have racked up 90,000 miles in the Caterham. Replacing it now for a 1.8VVC as I'm after a bit more power.
The problems with the K series, are LOAD related, therefore you can imagine statistically a Freelander, for instance, having problems.
>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Wednesday 17th May 12:34
stats mean nothing, the stats show that crime is down, waiting lists are down, the economy is up, there are more police on the street etc etc but real life shows otherwise.
if I totted up how many miles I have done on k series engines it would be well over 500k. thats on both brand new and second hand, the one thing they had in common, they were all serviced at the recommended intervals.
I had one of the first mgf's picked it up the 2nd week after they came out, and in 18 months did 60k miles. Apart from the roof leaking (which was a really daft problem, the door seal rubbers let the water in, instead of out, a simple fix) the car ran faultless. Only sold it because they were way too common.
Now Renault's & Nissan are a different story!!
if I totted up how many miles I have done on k series engines it would be well over 500k. thats on both brand new and second hand, the one thing they had in common, they were all serviced at the recommended intervals.
I had one of the first mgf's picked it up the 2nd week after they came out, and in 18 months did 60k miles. Apart from the roof leaking (which was a really daft problem, the door seal rubbers let the water in, instead of out, a simple fix) the car ran faultless. Only sold it because they were way too common.
Now Renault's & Nissan are a different story!!
you can solve a huge amount of HG failures (the biggest exposure the K has) simply by:
1) uprated HG
2) install VW fan sensor instead of cruddy Rover one
3) install triple-pass radiator on higher BHP K's
then you don't have an issue. you have to keep in perspective that there's approximately < 10% of K's that are more than 160Bhp on the road, and we as owners (and I'm one at 210Bhp) know what has to be done to take proper care of the engine. one need not be Einstein to know this, so any argument of unreliability is more down to either (a) dumb luck, or (b) an owner not taking proper care of their engine.
all that being said, i have more than once considered a 260Bhp Duratec U/G for our SV, but now the car is in Australia may do so in the next few years. our VHPD (touch wood) is running like a top even after 28K miles, major rallyes, lots of track days, and almost 4,000miles across the USA last fall.
1) uprated HG
2) install VW fan sensor instead of cruddy Rover one
3) install triple-pass radiator on higher BHP K's
then you don't have an issue. you have to keep in perspective that there's approximately < 10% of K's that are more than 160Bhp on the road, and we as owners (and I'm one at 210Bhp) know what has to be done to take proper care of the engine. one need not be Einstein to know this, so any argument of unreliability is more down to either (a) dumb luck, or (b) an owner not taking proper care of their engine.
all that being said, i have more than once considered a 260Bhp Duratec U/G for our SV, but now the car is in Australia may do so in the next few years. our VHPD (touch wood) is running like a top even after 28K miles, major rallyes, lots of track days, and almost 4,000miles across the USA last fall.
Hi Steve! Steve-B said:
you can solve a huge amount of HG failures (the biggest exposure the K has) simply by:
1) uprated HG
2) install VW fan sensor instead of cruddy Rover one
3) install triple-pass radiator on higher BHP K's
well you have cleary not understood the issues with the K if this is your solution.
try the thermostat, Landrover went to great expence to resolve this single issue, you on the other hand have missed the point entrirly.
I also note no mention of steel/plastic dowles, linner hight issues, porus head castings, etc etc.
like I was trying to say earlier, for what it was designed for, it's a good engine, unfortunatly, it was not designed as a 1.8 pushing 200+ bhp.
iain a said:
Get out there and enjoy whatever you got... I have a track day on Sunday so the world is looking rosy :-)
i disagree..... look before you leap is my motto, or else it may all end in tears:
www.jackals-forge.com/TMP/bang.wmv
Keep going at it boys you are making the next second hand ( sorry pre-owned) seven I buy (it will be a high horsepower K engined car) cheaper and cheaper. This is just good news for me, after all I want to do about 3K miles a year with plenty of track time the way things are going (CSR plus these new sigma engines) a well sorted 200+ bhp K car will be well under £20k soon - how much more fun for the money do you need.
Thanks Jackal the more people call me a moron the cheaper my fun will become - just keep the the insults coming I'll lap them all up if it saves me some money. By the way as to the cost of rebuilding the K series show me ANY car than can keep up with a well sorted 7 that costs LESS to run flat out or rebuild IT DON'T EXIST!
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff