Caterham acadamy 2007

[987cay]

1 am a newbie to racing/motor sports and I am seriously considering doing super or mega grads in 2007.In fact I am hopefully purchasing a car befor the end of this week.

[ArosaMike]

Nice one I won't be buying anything till this time next year as my next year of Uni is full of nasty exams and also I need a bit more money first . Will probably do a couple of races towards then end of 2007 if I can though and do the Supers.

[987cay]

I do feel slightly concerned on two fronts.I am not realy sure whether I would prefer to race or do some other discipline, as I would then be able to purchase a nicer imo car as in something from the R series.Also I feel concerned.hopefully wrongly,that the cars will feel slow.

Edited by 987cay on Tuesday 19th September 19:09

[ArosaMike]

It all depends on what you're used to really. I know that 115bhp isn't a lot, but you have to remember the car weighs less than 550kg so you're looking at over 200bhp per tonne and a 0-60 of around 6s. Most Caterhams will loose out much over 80 as they have the aerodynamics of a brick with a screen on. I'm used to driving TKM go karts which are supposed to do 0-60 in around 4 or 5s, and the Academy car I drove the other day didn't feel an aweful lot slower than that. I'd say it felt somewhere between a proper hot hatch and an Elise 111R (the Toyota VVTi engined one). Handling though is where it's at.

If you've done no racing at all then I'd say you'd be silly to go for something more powerful. Turning the pace up on everything means you have to be pretty good already and you'll just struggle away miles of the pace when you could be learning the ropes in an easier to drive car. I would never say the car would feel slow or like it was labouring, but it's not going to set your hair on fire in a straight line. It's a fast car with excellent handling IMO, and you'd probably be able to drive it faster straight out of the box than a CSR on slicks or something similar.

[h_____]

Folks, try www.graduates.org.uk to find out more about classes and starter packages in the Classic grads series.

Also if you worried about the car being slow, try and get a passenger ride in a race car at a trackday. Look at knockhill for example, in the dry the laps between BTCC cars and the supers wheren't far off a second a lap difference. Do you think BTCC cars are slow? The point is whilst a caterham may be a bit slow on a long straight, its all in the corners, some of the best circuits in the UK dont actually have much in the way of straights, Anglesey, Cadwell, Oulton. The other point is when all the cars are the same the speed difference is important. It becomes more of how can this person drive away from me in the same car? When seen like that, it becomes much more about the driver.

[mikey_p]

I've had a look at the Graduates website and I can't really find what im looking for. I've been interested in the Grad series for sometime, however now im thinking that I may aswell go straight into Supergrad as I want to race a quicker car and on semi's. I've got no competitive race experience but enough track driving to do ok. However how do you go straight into Supergrads? Is it similar to the Grads that you pay for car/kit, races, race license etc. at once or does it all need to be sourced and paid for individually? Any help would be great. Thanks.

[jwyatt]

987cay said:

I do feel slightly concerned on two fronts.I am not realy sure whether I would prefer to race or do some other discipline, as I would then be able to purchase a nicer imo car as in something from the R series.Also I feel concerned.hopefully wrongly,that the cars will feel slow.

Edited by 987cay on Tuesday 19th September 19:09

I had a slight concern before I signed up for the Academy that the cars would be slow for general use on things like trackdays. They are not. A lifetime of reading car magazines utterly fails to prepare you for the effects of very light weight on track performance. First of all the biggest variable is the driver, and even by the mid point of your academy year you'll probably be quicker than pretty much all but the most dedicated trackday driver if you've done some testing and had tuition, because that's what competition in a single-make series does for you - there's nowhere to hide! Secondly the Academy car is not that slow at all even on the starndard road tyres. If you go to Roadsports B spec - just bolting on a set of sticker tyres basically - you'll gain a second or two a lap and be as quick as very serious road cars.

What brought it home to me was firstly attending a lot of trackdays and along with my fellow racers always being among the quickest cars there, and secondly an Autocar track test where a 350bhp Impreza on track tyres driven by Phil Bennet did exactly the same best lap at Brands Indy as I could do day in, day out, in what was then a tired Roadsports B car on a track I don't go that well at (just sub 56-seconds). On track, weight is everything - and keeps the running costs down too.

Also, at the risk of upsetting some of the dedicated Caterham ropadcar types, the race cars may be quite basic and very cheap to buy second hand but it doesn't seem to slow them down much. When you do away with a lot of the non essentials the basic chassis in race form is close to Superlight weight anyway, and things like the 4-pot brakes may be very shiny but the Academy and Roadsports cars stop fine on the standard callipers/discs just with decent pads and fluid. The higher spec road cars offer much higher acceleration but you rarely see them pedalled as hard on track as the race cars - I lost count of the number of R300's, 400's, and even 500's that I and my co-racers passed on track. Personally I think the Roadsports A race car is the best compromise of pace/price, you get some useful extras like the 6-speed box (which may be made of cheese ubt the ratios are far better than the 5-speeder) and LSD which aid track time. An Academy car - easily upgraded to Roadsports B or Supergrads spec - will be fine. Enjoy!

[jwyatt]

mikey_p said:

I've had a look at the Graduates website and I can't really find what im looking for. I've been interested in the Grad series for sometime, however now im thinking that I may aswell go straight into Supergrad as I want to race a quicker car and on semi's. I've got no competitive race experience but enough track driving to do ok. However how do you go straight into Supergrads? Is it similar to the Grads that you pay for car/kit, races, race license etc. at once or does it all need to be sourced and paid for individually? Any help would be great. Thanks.

It sounds like you havethe Graduates and Academy confused. The Academy (run by Caterham not the Graduates club) is the only series where you are helped as a newcomer and the license, race entries, etc are free to you. There is a great vibe too as you are all in the same boat. It used to be called the Scholarship years back.

If jumping straight to any other series (grads, supergrads, Roadsports, etc) you'll need to buy a car, ensure it complies with the regs, get a license and all your safety gear, and register with the series and pay for race entries yourself. It's not that complex but you might want a helping hand, especially at your first event when the car needs scrutineering and you need to attend briefings all over the place! The grads are a friendly bunch, someone can probably help.

On the "enough trackday driving to do OK" front, you'll doubtless know your way around a track, but I suspect you'd be really suprised how competitive all these series are, including the Academy. You see drivers a year or two after the Academy winning races in series like the Superlights, in supporting races at the British F3 and GT champs. Unless you are hugely talented there's a big step up for someone who hasn't competed before from being quick on a trackday to being competitive in Roadsports, Graduates, or even the Academy.

Edited by jwyatt on Wednesday 20th September 11:59

[ArosaMike]

I think he meant the straight live axel Graduate cars on road tyres. As far as my research has taught me, yes you buy a car, then add a couple of bits and bobs (notably a rear ARB and new tyres) and then you pay BARC membership. Once you have done your ARDS you can then enter the races. If it's anything like other race series I would imagine you can either sign up for the whole season applying in one go or one at a time.

Although I've done a fair bit of high level karting I certainly have no expectations for SuperGrads. I've never raced a car in my life, and whilst everything I've learnt over the years in karts will be applicable, it really wouldn't surprise me if I was knocking around in the lower half of the grid for a fair while. It would be nice to think I could go in and be finishing top 10, but I have no way of gauging my skill compared to the other drivers. IMO, if anyone is coming solely from a Trackday background then I wouldn't expect to be finishing much higher than mid grid for a good while. I remember my first competitive race in karting having come from a life where winning in rental karts was easy, I was pretty shocked by the pace of everyone who had been racing for a while.

[mikey_p]

ArosaMike, yea I see your point. I did a test day with the BUKC (Im at Brighton uni currently) and I was suprised at the speed of some of the competitors. I always find karts a bit strange to drive but I didnt think I would be getting lapped so much. As for racing unfortunatly I couldn't afford it then. As for doing OK, I did only mean not being bottom of the positions list, my first couple of races im probably going to be shouting at people for not indicating and moving out of the way (assuming im quicker then them) and then waving to say thanks if I get past them.
jwyatt, thanks for clearing the whole academy/graduates thing up. I think i'll stick to Academy when the time comes, then sell the car and get a R300 or something afterwards
Now where did I leave that spare £16,000?

[charliehunt]

I did trackdays (loads) for about 2 years, then I started racing in the grads, I am of the opinion that karters and trackdayers always do well at racing, so long as you don't overdrive the car and you think about what you are trying to achieve.
2003 graduate champion,
2005 supergraduate champion.
this year andrew vickers will have a top 5 finish, this is his first year racing after doing trackdays,
mark roberts came from karting and hes always in the top 10.
don't think about it just get in there and do it, theres no way you are not going to enjoy it.

[ArosaMike]

Haha. Another BUKCer We seem to crop up everywhere! One of my fellow cometitors in the Red Bull Karting Final I did was also in the series. It's great fun. I'm not sure there's anywhere in the world where you can race against current Formula Renault, Formula BMW, GT and Saloon Car drivers for £50 a race. It's taken me 3 years to get into the top 5 and win. The biggest thing for me has been learning how to race well. It's very, very hard I find to be calculated enough not to get frustrated at backmarkers and end up causing an incident.

I most definitely am going to enter the SuperGrads in the next couple of years. All being well I'll be able to get a car next year and maybe do a race or two towards the end of the season. Hopefully I'll be in the position to properly do the 2008 season

EDIT: Mean to add....how many of you racers use your Roadsports as regular road cars? I was impressed at the sealing on the doors when I took one out last week, but obviously the weather protection is never going to be 100%. Is it relatively ok to live with though?

Edited by ArosaMike on Wednesday 20th September 18:35

[mechsympathy]

It's certainly going to be interesting going from being one of the quicker cars on track days to being the least experienced in the race series. OTOH it'll be good to work out if I am actually any good

[jwyatt]

charliehunt said:

I did trackdays (loads) for about 2 years, then I started racing in the grads, I am of the opinion that karters and trackdayers always do well at racing, so long as you don't overdrive the car and you think about what you are trying to achieve.
2003 graduate champion,
2005 supergraduate champion.
this year andrew vickers will have a top 5 finish, this is his first year racing after doing trackdays,
mark roberts came from karting and hes always in the top 10.
don't think about it just get in there and do it, theres no way you are not going to enjoy it.

Ah yes, but you are good! Obviously serious karting and trackdays are miles better than no preparation, my point was just not to expect to walz in and win stuff from a trackday background in any well-attended series. Some can - like Charlie - but many others get into a comfort zone on trackdays and need to find a few seconds within themselves. Success straight away is as likely to be from talent than the trackdays! Talent, experience, and mental application/knowledge seemed to me to all come through strongly in someone's results. The most talented guy in my Academy tested very little and never set his car up as much as the rest of us at the front of the field, he was just very very talented! The next year on Roadsports B on sticker tyres he had dropped a little behind some of us that tested quite a lot, having been right at the front in the Academy but he was still up near the front. Had he done Supergrads that year (same car) which was less well attended, he's have still been winning.

Either way, like Charlie says its a total laugh whatever you start in, and really interesting in your first few events to find where you fit in. My advice would be to get a setup on the car you are happy with, then focus on your technique and learning the tracks you'll visit, without fiddling with the car too much. Roadssports sees endless expensive engine optimisation and a lot of car setup, the graduates racing club series are what I'd like to do in future when time/money allow again, seems more relaxed and more the spirit of people towing their own cars to races and being friendly, than using pro teams.

[987cay]

Well Ive just found out that the car I was intending to buy has been sold,to someone else.

[ArosaMike]

Wasn't the blue one on here was it by any chance? Looked quite good that, although you'd need to spend another grand or so to get it to Roadsport/SuperGrads spec.

Check out Caterham Midlands mate. They've got two Roadsport cars for sale atm. One was owned by the boss so was maintained no expense spared. Has the tall cage though which I'm not a fan of. Don't have the funds atm either

[987cay]

It was the blue one one here,I went up to leeds on Saturday to view it,it had done 500 miles.I was quoted approx 4K to get it up to mega Grad spec.I phoned up to try to close the deal but too late.I drove a car at Caterham Midlands the other day and briefly discussed the accademy deal.There were loads of cars there, how do I know which ones are suitable without asking.I just can't make up my mind ,I would like a more powerful car NOW,which I could use for track days etc,this is why I was interested in megga's.At the moment I use a cayman S for track days but I am worried about crashing it,The bill might be a bit more than a long front.

[987cay]

I actually think the acadamy looks rather expensive if you consider how much your car that will have cost approx 20K including extras will be worth.I would think 14K if perfect far less if not.Grads looks the same price for loads more races plus a far cheaper car.but but but but............

[ArosaMike]

TBH, it's up to you. IMHO you'll get more fun from racing than track days. I could do test days and track days and fall asleep at the wheel because all the fun now for me is racing. If you're going to be constantly worried about your car though, then I'd say it might hinder you. You'll have to accept that you will damage your car and it will get abused a bit, but it's a racing car and that's what it's built for. Any cosmetic damage should be pretty cheap and easy to fix. You only have problems if you have a big one, and that shouldn't happen often if at all.

I would strongly suggest against going into Megas. The money I believe is a lot more. Running without a screen puts more empahsis on the engine so rebuilds will be more common. Furthermore, I honestly think even Supers would be a big enough challenge and plenty of fun. Really don't worry about speed or lack there of. A Super Grads car would blow your Porsche out of the water. You're not even going to get anywhere close to something like a SuperGrad in a car that weighs more than twice as much on road tyres and with a similar power to weight ratio.

They do a good sell at Midlands for the Academy, but I can see now that it's cheaper and better value to do Supers or Roadsports. I know the bosses car is Megas spec with a screen on it, and the other is Supers spec. Otherwise, just have a look round the web or try asking Caterham to source you a car. I'm sure they'd let you now when they can get one.

[h_____]

Try asking similar questions on www.roadsports.co.uk, you will get answers from people doing academy, Grads, supergrads, megagrads, roadsports B, inters and even C400s!!

Also have you thought about going to the event at Brands on w/e of the 22nd October. Again, nearly all series are running that day. A great chance to talk to people doing all the series.

timetable is here www.brscc.co.uk/calendar/timetables/bh20oct.pdf