Wet Weather Tyres for R300 - Trackdays
Discussion
xply used slicks you can get from George Polley Motorsport. Radial slicks from
Protyre Motorsport
01782 411001 - I use 16/53 -13, on 6" front and 7" rears. These have a rolling circumf close to CR500's 155's, so I use the same size tyre front and back. Does look a bit odd at the rear as they don't fill the arches very well, but I don't do a lot of road miles, and they are good in the wet.
Protyre Motorsport
01782 411001 - I use 16/53 -13, on 6" front and 7" rears. These have a rolling circumf close to CR500's 155's, so I use the same size tyre front and back. Does look a bit odd at the rear as they don't fill the arches very well, but I don't do a lot of road miles, and they are good in the wet.
casbar said:
......but they are not great in standing water....
And this is where 21s excel in my (nearly 10yrs'
) experience. To me, that particular quality on a car that's predominantly used on the road is worth its weight.
As for track use, yes they break up. But I've never had an issue keeping up with those on CR500s on track, and at the end of the day the Avons hardly win any longevity awards.
The other "big" issue with the 21 is it weighs a fair bit.
Horses for courses. And at least 7 tyres (even CR500s) are hardly horrendously expensive.
"As for track use, yes they break up. But I've never had an issue keeping up with those on CR500s on track, and at the end of the day the Avons hardly win any longevity awards"
Don't remember posting that people could go faster on a track with CR500's, that's more to do with how you can drive.
I was also making the point (9 years of ownership)that I had tried all the different tyres in my (Limited ownership) time. Most people go for the 70 profile 21's as they are a good price from Polley, the lower profile 21's are not far off the price of 48's. To be honest I don't really give a stuff, if murph thinks the 21's are the dogs, and how fast he can drive around a track, its each to their own, and I was giving my views, on what I have learnt and by speaking to tyre distributors such as Polley who sell both tyres.
21's will last longer because they are a harder profile, hence why they don't grip as well as 48's in the dry. But I had them on one of my old cars and ran them for a year or two and was happy, but now CR500's meet my usage
Don't remember posting that people could go faster on a track with CR500's, that's more to do with how you can drive.
I was also making the point (9 years of ownership)that I had tried all the different tyres in my (Limited ownership) time. Most people go for the 70 profile 21's as they are a good price from Polley, the lower profile 21's are not far off the price of 48's. To be honest I don't really give a stuff, if murph thinks the 21's are the dogs, and how fast he can drive around a track, its each to their own, and I was giving my views, on what I have learnt and by speaking to tyre distributors such as Polley who sell both tyres.
21's will last longer because they are a harder profile, hence why they don't grip as well as 48's in the dry. But I had them on one of my old cars and ran them for a year or two and was happy, but now CR500's meet my usage
casbar said:
...if murph thinks the 21's are the dogs, and how fast he can drive around a track, its each to their own, ...
That I'm a million light years away from being Ayrton Senna is testimony to how good I think 21Rs are, particularly as an all round tyre that's pretty much the best decent rubber out there for wet conditions (IMO).
The original post was about having "moments" in the wet. I've also experienced this on 32Rs, CR500s etc - every time it's been down to standing water and the car aquaplaning. It often doesn't take much in the way of standing water either.
Fiddling with tyre pressures can make a big difference, as will having the suspension set up properly. That said, I don't recall ever having aquaplaning with 21Rs - you can pretty much literally feel them cutting through the water.
Many people never use their 7s in the wet, so it's a non-issue. But if you do, tyre choice can make a significant difference to the way your car handles. As can, for that matter, ensuring they're properly scrubbed in. It's well worth trying several brands over time as "feel" is very much subjective.
PS Thanks drakart
If you want brown trouser moments in the wet, the 355 can teach the 7 everything there is to know about aquaplaning. And I've yet to find a tyre for it that works well (shame 21Rs don't come in big enough sizes ). tortoise said:
All good advice but it is possible to set the car up to be fairly neutral for both wet and dry conditions. Certainly run a thin anti roll bar on the front. On the "basic" narrow spec. front suspension this has orange rubber lugs which the bar runs through. If you have red (medium) or green (stiff) then you will find the car has a greater tendancy to understeer. You could remove both front and rear bars in the wet or just try running with orange only on the front.
To be honest I think you would be best advised to go for a basic "soft" set up and concentrate on your driving skills. The car will always tend to understeer in the wet, try keeping the front of the car loaded up as you turn in, i.e. keep a little bit of weight on via the brakes as you turn in as this helps the front grip. It's all about balance as too much braking will send the back round but smooth transition from braking to turn in should minimise understeer. As a last resort a sharpish lift off the throttle mid corner will usually send the car into mild oversteer and tighten the line. Use the car's natural handling characteristics to get it to do what you want it to.
This is all based on my experience of a year in the Caterham Academy where the car is restricted to rubbish tyres and very limited tuning options (just the three anti-roll bars, basically). The rationale is that we learn to drive around the handling characteristics (or vices, depending on your point of view) which result. You'd be amazed how fast some people can drive, even with these constraints.
To be honest I think you would be best advised to go for a basic "soft" set up and concentrate on your driving skills. The car will always tend to understeer in the wet, try keeping the front of the car loaded up as you turn in, i.e. keep a little bit of weight on via the brakes as you turn in as this helps the front grip. It's all about balance as too much braking will send the back round but smooth transition from braking to turn in should minimise understeer. As a last resort a sharpish lift off the throttle mid corner will usually send the car into mild oversteer and tighten the line. Use the car's natural handling characteristics to get it to do what you want it to.
This is all based on my experience of a year in the Caterham Academy where the car is restricted to rubbish tyres and very limited tuning options (just the three anti-roll bars, basically). The rationale is that we learn to drive around the handling characteristics (or vices, depending on your point of view) which result. You'd be amazed how fast some people can drive, even with these constraints.
I'm with this man! When I was racing I tended to have setup I could deal with in the wet and dry, and focused on my driving. The standard Academy/Roadsports B spec cars are very soft in terms of dampers and springs - a lot of people go far stiffer for trackdays and I always feel that unless very experienced they'd be better off feeling a bit more of what the car is up to. I switched form my Caterham to a similar-weight race car with really stiff (450lb!) springs and hated it. I read something in a race techniques textbook once that said that at anything below the top pro level of drivers, a setup that gave the driver confidence was worth much more time than a technically perfect setup. I'd go with that.
Personally, on the narrow suspension, I liked the Red front bar - the orange gave too much oversteer (especially with a rear ARB fitted) and I preferred to drive around some predictable understeer that have it snap out, and be unable to get on the power early. Of course, that was with my other chassis settings, your car might feel different on the same bars.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff