R400 Options and Spec

[fergus]

gra001 said:

fergus said:

gra001 said:

Bafty_Crastard said:

Come on lads, this is worth a look!!

[url]www.pistonheads.com/sales/132855.htm[/url]

Going down in cost and with all the bits

Bafty

Still K series..............that may prove a problem to some, especially at resale. There again, maybe not??

why? How many K-series that have been properly setup/fettled, have actually gone pop, or had their HGs go on them?

I agree, just figured buyers will very soon want Duratec R400 just for the latest kit.

and the extra torque in relatively low states of tune!

[Bafty_Crastard]

So it’s everybody wants a Duratec time, Mr Caterham will be laughing his nuts off!!

500 car’s a year over 15 years, there’s a lot of “K” owners that’s going to disagree with that comment

At £25K and 2.5K miles with all the bits, not your current “basic spec” R400 it’s got to be worth considering. The alternative is what selling out for the same spec???




Bafty

[subirg]

Bafty - it's not a fully loaded R400 - the spec seams fairly standard if you read through it carefully.

It is however a decent buy at reasonable money. I don't know anything about the car's history, but judging by the write up and pictures it doesn't look thrashed and doesn't look like it's had much track time. It will depreciate less than a new car - that's for sure.

However... I'm sure I'm not alone in not being a fan of the spec, or of the colour (even with special one off gold badges!) nor a fan of the engine. Many of us would also rather pay a premium to be able to acquire a new car fresh from the factory to our exact spec rather than compromise on a used car. It's our choice and our money - some will agreee and some won't. No body's wrong!

Best.

[rubystone]

BTW I hear that order number 1 for the R400 nee C400 is now about to be deliverd - not bad - only a year behind schedule....

[fergus]

[quote=subirg]..... it doesn't look thrashed and doesn't look like it's had much track time.../quote]


er, what else do you do with Caterhams? Just because it's been driven hard and/or used on track doesn't mean it has to be a bad example. OK, mine probably is (cosmetically), but I suspect many owners who track their cars, pay more attention to mechanical maintenance than their polishing bretheren who are lavishing autoglym all over their bodywork.

I really don't understand the obsession with 'mint' cars. They are there to be used IMHO. If you look in the Porsche forum, there are a couple of guys trying to buy 'untracked' & mint examples of the 996 GT3 RS - if ever there was a car ripe for track action this is it?

[rubystone]

fergus said:

I really don't understand the obsession with 'mint' cars. They are there to be used IMHO. If you look in the Porsche forum, there are a couple of guys trying to buy 'untracked' & mint examples of the 996 GT3 RS - if ever there was a car ripe for track action this is it?

Exactly why I sold my 964RS and why my R500 has a nice patina of "use"

With you 100% there Fergus

[fergus]

rubystone said:

fergus said:

I really don't understand the obsession with 'mint' cars. They are there to be used IMHO. If you look in the Porsche forum, there are a couple of guys trying to buy 'untracked' & mint examples of the 996 GT3 RS - if ever there was a car ripe for track action this is it?

Exactly why I sold my 964RS and why my R500 has a nice patina of "use"

With you 100% there Fergus

snap. my '4RS was too good to track(!) so I bought a Caterham to abuse instead - although if I can't get the oil pressure ot drop, it may well get it's final dose of abuse at Donington this saturday!

[jackal]

[Pugsey]

rubystone said:

fergus said:

I really don't understand the obsession with 'mint' cars. They are there to be used IMHO. If you look in the Porsche forum, there are a couple of guys trying to buy 'untracked' & mint examples of the 996 GT3 RS - if ever there was a car ripe for track action this is it?

Exactly why I sold my 964RS and why my R500 has a nice patina of "use"

With you 100% there Fergus

I agree with EVERYBODY! - bloody hell this fence is uncomfortable! I've gone for a new car for the reasons others have mentioned BUT it's gonna get used - two 'Ring trips and one to Spa already booked plus oodles of UK stuff. I'll try to keep it 'mint' as I'm a bit sad like that - although I do draw the line a using a NEW toothbrush to clean the tyres - but any patina of use will at least be my patina! I don't actually think that owning a beautifully prepared car AND using it as intended are two conflicting ideas anyway. Only three months or so to wait now!

Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 1st March 08:11

[subirg]

Well, it's a better looking car than it was when the first shots came out. However, at £39k it's more expensive than the most expensive CSR... and that's before you start loading in the options. We also know that an Elise offers up a very different driving experience to a Caterham. Some prefer one style over the other.

It doesn't compete with an R400 for me - totally different price brackets (£25k vs £39k for base spec is a huge difference), not as powerful either (on a bhp/ton basis), different driving experience. I'm keen to see how quick this thing is though. If it cuts the mustard, then I might put it on my upgrade path after the R400. However, if I was going to spend that sort of money today, I'd probably go for a Radical SR3 as that would quite happily see everything off (except an SR8)...

[rubystone]

Bedazzled said:

So are any of you regretting putting down a deposit on a Caterham R400/CSR when you could have a Lotus 2-11 instead? I love Caterhams (and I've got an R300) but I'd rather have the Lotus to be honest.

High res pictures: www.leftlanenews.com/lotus-2-eleven.html

remember Lotus' last track focussed car?....

to refresh your memory, it was the 340R

I hope that this 2-11 wil be better than that

[Pugsey]

My response would echo subirg's post word for word - except to add that a) I already have an SR3 which would bury the Lotus and b) the Caterham also has really very useable weather equipment - very usefull if the weather takes a turn on the way to the 'Ring.

[subirg]

Pugsey said:

I already have an SR3 which would bury the Lotus

b**tard! Top car for ultimate pace. Seriously top track car.

Re the R400 - still no sign of it in the motoring press. Can't be long till the first cars are out! I'm still anticipating sometime in April to test drive and finalise spec. Anybody got any more news?

[tvrted]

First car will be delivered 11.30 am friday

[subirg]

Excellent news! Make sure you post up first impressions/piccies as soon as pos (assuming you're picking it up that is...?!)!

[jackal]

Bedazzled said:

So are any of you regretting putting down a deposit on a Caterham R400/CSR when you could have a Lotus 2-11 instead? I love Caterhams (and I've got an R300) but I'd rather have the Lotus to be honest.

High res pictures: www.leftlanenews.com/lotus-2-eleven.html

lol, you are kidding arent you ?

[jackal]

rubystone said:

remember Lotus' last track focussed car?....

to refresh your memory, it was the 340R

yep, strangely enough, i bought one of those the week they were launched
speculators all over the country bought them
but 18 months down the line and i'd lost almost 20 grand on it

it wasn't a track car, it wasn't fast, there was a myriad of teething problems like misted wipac units, banging mudflaps and interminable misfiring at 4500rpm but the very best tale that puts the biggest smile on my face is when all the 340 owners got an invite from Lotus to attend a special 340r trackday at Hethel. In the notes it stipulated that we must have an additional non-standard oil cooler fitted to our "bespoke trcakday elises" or they wouldn't let us on circuit. So there you go, 36 grand for an official factory trackday special and then Lotus subsequently U turn and deem it not suitably equipped for the track. With the tarckday + hotel cost they were charging and including fitment of an oil cooler and labour I think it would have worked out as the most costly trackday in human history. Good job I never went !

the base elise has always worked well imo but as for the rest of the range, Lotus have lost the plot bigtime since.... on powerplant choice, outight performance and most of all price. Anyone can make a car handle these days and anyone can engineer a good ride quality and body control. So imo, the days are gone when the norfolk people could trade on the big Lotus DNA ride and handling BS and get away with charging 40 or 50k for some miserable spineless four pot thats slower, worse built, less reliable, less desirable than its cayman/Z3m/EVOIX/CSL/Noble etc.. bretheren. In any case its not even as if the elise is good on circuit anyway... kind of fun for newbies until you approach the limit and get used to the speed and the so-called razor-like turn-in and then its dull & tedious and frustrating. And then you go out in a ~200bhp caterham and you realise that all along it was like driving a snappy recalcitrant bus with its engine in the wrong place and way too much understeer... and that razor, well it wasn't a razor at all, more like a garden spade.

Edited by jackal on Tuesday 6th March 20:41

[murph7355]

Bedazzled said:

So are any of you regretting putting down a deposit on a Caterham R400/CSR when you could have a Lotus 2-11 instead? I love Caterhams (and I've got an R300) but I'd rather have the Lotus to be honest.

High res pictures: www.leftlanenews.com/lotus-2-eleven.html

First we have 25st 6yr old kids and now a stripped out track special at 670+kg's.

That thing weighs more stood still being photographed than my 7 with me IN it AND a passenger too. And I'm a fat bastard.

I too am getting a bit tired of the variations on an Elise theme that is the Lotus line up. I was glad that the Elise dug them out of the shit. But they'll get back into it quickly enough if they keep stretching it out (the Europa name should never have been used on the car it currently adorns, for example).

[Bafty_Crastard]

Nice chapie on Blatchat seams to think they are mustard…….

Save your self a lot of money and get one of these................

[url]www.pistonheads.com/sales/97802.htm[/url]

Bafty

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Wednesday 7th March 08:29

[Pugsey]

Bedazzled said:

So that's a no then...!

Horses for courses I guess. I agree the 2-11 is very pricey and there are also a few things missing in the spec (dry sump & LSD), but it just looks fab to me. I especially like the idea of bolt-on body panels, much cheaper to repair than the 240R.

I think people are daft spending £40K on a CSR that to a lay-person is a kit car that looks a bit like chitty-chitty-bang-bang [ducks for cover]. Radicals are pointless too because they are useless on the road and if you are fast on track it's the car and if you are slow it's the driver, you can't win.

However the R400 is in a better price bracket and I like it a lot, especially as it uses the smaller S3 chassis. The exhaust is on the wrong side though...

It's easy to be FASTER than most other things at a track day in a Radical. It's an entirely different matter to actually drive one FAST. Most people who drive them at track days are nowhere near their cars limits frankly. If you want to get near the limits they are a great challenge. Too quick to be comfortable at a track day IMO though.

Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 8th March 10:30