R400 Options and Spec
Discussion
subirg said:
Pugsey - interesting that you are going for all the carbon bits. I looked into this and decided that weight saving (less than 10kgs if you go for everything - seats, nose, rear wings, wind deflector) wasn't worth nearly £2k! However, I may change my mind 'cos it looks too flash! Also, if I add the heater, I can save almost all that weight by adding the carbon seats... tempted again now!
In reality I suppose the only reason to go carbon is weight saving - in which case I don't think £2k represents good value - I'm sure it'll make no difference at all to my lap times or driving enjoyment! However this car is a present to me from me so I'm treating myself to all the flash bits available - I do think they look good! Also I intend to keep the car and in a few years time I'm sure I'll be glad I ticked every box. Although another approach might be to leave them off and then enjoy upgrading from time to time? Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 23 January 11:59
jeremyc said:
subirg said:
Re second hand R400s, I can't find anything under £22 - 23k unless it's an ex race car. Hence the difference between new and second hand is £8 - 10k. And don't forget they have totally different engines (and a different chassis). Having said all that, a decent k engined R400 has to be a tempting buy if you can find the right one.
You're right - they're rare and desirable beasts. 
There is this one - I don't know the car but it looks quite tidy. And of course the yellow ones are fastest ...
Re dry sump - I spoke to caterham about this last week. They said they might develop one 'to keep customers happy', but they didn't recommend it and didn't say it was needed. The reason being - the Duratec with baffled sump was doing just fine. I did some research on blatchat and uncovered a really good thread on this (sorry - don't have the link but have a look in tech chat). Again, the concensus view was that the k series engine needed the dry sump, but the duratec did not. Assuming my info is correct, then it would seem logical to suggest that the dry sump may make sense for race purposes, but for road/trackday cars its benefit is marginal at best. If caterham offer it on the road going R400 its probably got more to do with marketing than real need. Either way, it's not on the current price/spec sheet and loads of people have orders in. I can't believe caterham would sell a car with that spec knowing it would have problems? Any more insight on this would be good!
subirg said:
Re dry sump - I spoke to caterham about this last week. They said they might develop one 'to keep customers happy', but they didn't recommend it and didn't say it was needed. The reason being - the Duratec with baffled sump was doing just fine. I did some research on blatchat and uncovered a really good thread on this (sorry - don't have the link but have a look in tech chat). Again, the concensus view was that the k series engine needed the dry sump, but the duratec did not. Assuming my info is correct, then it would seem logical to suggest that the dry sump may make sense for race purposes, but for road/trackday cars its benefit is marginal at best. If caterham offer it on the road going R400 its probably got more to do with marketing than real need. Either way, it's not on the current price/spec sheet and loads of people have orders in. I can't believe caterham would sell a car with that spec knowing it would have problems? Any more insight on this would be good!
Can only say that Caterham told me this morning that kit will appear on price list very soon and can be ordered now - I'm going to go back and ask for a tech. view. IMO if they need it for racing then it's a must for track days - you'll do far, far, more laps at a track day than a race day and often at pretty much race speeds too - especially with sticky rubber. I'll see what they say. Adjustable dampers...they're charging extra for adjustable dampers?...you gotta be kidding - I guess it's more than a set of Bilsteins and adjustable platforms we're talking about here?...Not sure, but I'd bet that to fit nitrons etc you'd still need adjustable platforms?...£160 for a set IIRC.
BTW Mark Durrant & Peter Treuman are running Nitrons on their R500s IIRC and swear by them.
TVRTed, you're correct - do I know you from somewhere else/have we corresponded offline?
BTW Mark Durrant & Peter Treuman are running Nitrons on their R500s IIRC and swear by them.
TVRTed, you're correct - do I know you from somewhere else/have we corresponded offline?
Oh, and Subir, do you mean that the new R400 comes with d/s as standard?...If not, you WILL need one if you want to do track work and I'd recommend one for any use, period....
Is there not a standard spec for the R400? A standard R500 came with 4 carbon wings, nosecone, dash, stack, carbon kevlar seats, magensium bell housing, dry sump, magnesium wheels etc etc. Even the K Series R400 came with dry sump, stack and some carbon as standard didn't it?...it sounds like Caterham may be trying to squeeze every penny out of potential purchasers....
The danger with not speccing a car to a certain level is that you end up with a less desirable car come resale - look at non PASM equipped Porsches, for example...
Is there not a standard spec for the R400? A standard R500 came with 4 carbon wings, nosecone, dash, stack, carbon kevlar seats, magensium bell housing, dry sump, magnesium wheels etc etc. Even the K Series R400 came with dry sump, stack and some carbon as standard didn't it?...it sounds like Caterham may be trying to squeeze every penny out of potential purchasers....
The danger with not speccing a car to a certain level is that you end up with a less desirable car come resale - look at non PASM equipped Porsches, for example...
I'm sure you're right re caterham looking to squeeze the margins out of each car - they are a business after all!
Re the dry sump - I will do more research on this, as I clearly don't want a lunched engine..! But, as I said, the view on blatchat is that the Duratec doesn't need one even for track use. Will try and find the thread and post a link.
Re what you get - you do get two carbon wings and a carbon dash, but you don't get carbon rear wings or nose... You also get the same standard wheels as the R300.
It isn't a cheap piece of kit - but compared to a CSR it's a total bargain!
Re the dry sump - I will do more research on this, as I clearly don't want a lunched engine..! But, as I said, the view on blatchat is that the Duratec doesn't need one even for track use. Will try and find the thread and post a link.
Re what you get - you do get two carbon wings and a carbon dash, but you don't get carbon rear wings or nose... You also get the same standard wheels as the R300.
It isn't a cheap piece of kit - but compared to a CSR it's a total bargain!
Right - here's the dry sump thread from blatchat... Enjoy!
www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=111791
Don't know how to make the link 'link', so you might have to do a cut/paste job. Worth it though...
www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=111791
Don't know how to make the link 'link', so you might have to do a cut/paste job. Worth it though...
Re. dry sump. Spoken to Caterham and while they feel that the engine is fine as it is - ie wet sump - they feel that it would be sensible for cars which are going to get prelonged track use - and possibly be fitted with sticky tires - to be fitted with a dry sump system. I'd say this makes complete sense to me and I'm certainly going this route. I remember having the same thing done on an old crossflow car I once had and another benefit was improved clearance under the sump.
Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 23 January 13:21
I think that the clearest answer is that a dry sump will provide better protection for your engine than a wet sump, especially if you are generating high or sustained lateral G on track.
A wet sump may appear to be adequate according to anecdotal evidence, but there is no way of telling just how close to disaster these guys are running (some talk of only one or two track days of evidence).
I'd say if you were in any doubt then go for it: you'll have peace of mind if you use it on track and it will be a more valuable car come resale time anyway.
A wet sump may appear to be adequate according to anecdotal evidence, but there is no way of telling just how close to disaster these guys are running (some talk of only one or two track days of evidence).
I'd say if you were in any doubt then go for it: you'll have peace of mind if you use it on track and it will be a more valuable car come resale time anyway.
Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 23 January 13:50
sound advice. A d/s is probably going to be on the cards. I would imagine that if upgradeitis sets in, and I chose to up the horses to 230 - 250, then a d/s (and prob oil cooler) will become even more useful/necessary.
Anyone know how the Caterham d/s works? Is it a belt drive system?
Anyone know how the Caterham d/s works? Is it a belt drive system?
subirg said:
sound advice. A d/s is probably going to be on the cards. I would imagine that if upgradeitis sets in, and I chose to up the horses to 230 - 250, then a d/s (and prob oil cooler) will become even more useful/necessary.
Anyone know how the Caterham d/s works? Is it a belt drive system?
Excellent - like to feel someone else's wallet is suffering as much as mine. Now tick those carbon boxes - you know you want to! Anyone know how the Caterham d/s works? Is it a belt drive system?
jeremyc said:
I think that the clearest answer is that a dry sump will provide better protection for your engine than a wet sump, especially if you are generating high or sustained lateral G on track.
A wet sump may appear to be adequate according to anecdotal evidence, but there is no way of telling just how close to disaster these guys are running (some talk of only one or two track days of evidence).
I'd say if you were in any doubt then go for it: you'll have peace of mind if you use it on track and it will be a more valuable car come resale time anyway.
Exactly - it's like any form of 'insurance' it seems expensive all the time you don't need it and then.........bang! Possibly literally in this case. A wet sump may appear to be adequate according to anecdotal evidence, but there is no way of telling just how close to disaster these guys are running (some talk of only one or two track days of evidence).
I'd say if you were in any doubt then go for it: you'll have peace of mind if you use it on track and it will be a more valuable car come resale time anyway.
Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 23 January 13:50
Edited by Pugsey on Sunday 4th March 16:04
subirg said:
Now I'll probably have to order to carbon seats as well...! Today is turning out to be very expensive - have so far added adjustable dampers (£1K), d/s (£1k?), carbon seats (£550), heater (£250ish)... STOP IT YOU LOT!!!
So - all you've got to do is come up with an expensive colour scheme and your day will be complete! Sorry. Seriously, what are you going for? Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 23 January 15:52
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