R400 Options and Spec

[Pugsey]

Bafty_Crastard said:

Buy the way if your looking for a reg for your car, you can have......

"R400 MMM" for £200

e-mail me

Bafty

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Wednesday 24th January 20:31

You have mail - if it's worked!

[Bafty_Crastard]

Got it, and have replied

Bafty

[Bafty_Crastard]

Just been looking at my order form for the new R400, you know the PDF you can down load from the website, it lists……...LSD, dry sump and a Cosworth Duratec as standard equipment, times move on don’t they!!

Some thing to think about?

I’ve not down loaded the latest up to date PDF of costs, but if they are now all additions that could end up a tidy sum…robbing buggers

Bafty

[rubystone]

Bafty_Crastard said:

Just been looking at my order form for the new R400, you know the PDF you can down load from the website, it lists……...LSD, dry sump and a Cosworth Duratec as standard equipment, times move on don’t they!!

Some thing to think about?

I’ve not down loaded the latest up to date PDF of costs, but if they are now all additions that could end up a tidy sum…robbing buggers

Bafty

Frankly, the whole point of the "R" sufix is surely the racing link?...ergo all those items should bloody well be standard...otherwise, surely an R400 is nothing more than a specced up standard car is it?....

[subirg]

LSD is standard, Duratec is the engine, but not by Cosworth because (so the official line goes), the factory are getting the same power for less cost and more reliably than Cosworth were able to. The Dry Sump wasn't included because it wasn't considered necessary (as discussed earlier), however, as everyone is suggesting it's a good insurance policy I'm sure most of us will spec it! Either way - the Duratec car is still cheaper than the outgoing K Series car on a like for like spec basis!

[Bafty_Crastard]

Well you will have to back that up cos I donk think I agree!

The dry sump wasn't included because the cost is around £1K, having said that it was an option on SLR but not on the R400

Bafty

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Friday 26th January 22:10

Edit to say……………

I think CC are down specing the new R400 big time…stack (was £1K now £500), dry sump (£1k), carbon (£1K), roller barrels (£1K), thats around £4K of omissions.

Also the "K" engine to get 200 bhp required extensive engine mods, which all costs. The Dury thingy engine is more standard unit (no roller??)

Best cost option is a mint, low mileage, “K” R400 say for around £24K, if there's one going?

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Saturday 27th January 12:14

[LRdriver II]

I have an R300 with all the bits on (Stack, carbon arches/nose, LSD, carbon seats,6 speed..etc,etc) and was considering that the only car I would trade up to would be a durex powered 400 from caterham. But looking at specs and pricing, I have to consider just giving my car to raceline/ammo and upgrade engine to 230bhp Duratec.

If caterham dont make it good value, then I have no reason to look at them unfortunatly

[Pugsey]

LRdriver II said:

I have an R300 with all the bits on (Stack, carbon arches/nose, LSD, carbon seats,6 speed..etc,etc) and was considering that the only car I would trade up to would be a durex powered 400 from caterham. But looking at specs and pricing, I have to consider just giving my car to raceline/ammo and upgrade engine to 230bhp Duratec.

If caterham dont make it good value, then I have no reason to look at them unfortunatly

At £35k for a car with nearly every option I actually think the new car IS good value - and that's before taking into account things like it's superior engine etc. Additionally if you want a new car that no-one else has owned (which I do) then you kind of accept that you'll loose a bit over the first year or so - although in reality this is meaningless if, like me, you intend to keep and enjoy the car long term. Also don't forget that you are now considering spending a fair bit on your car which is great but I'll bet when you've done it your car won't be worth anymore than before you modified it and may even be more difficult to sell - but that's OK if it works for you. We all look at our cars in very individual ways - long may it continue.

[MikeE]

Just as a comparison I built my R400 Duratec from a complete new R400 kit minus engine, gearbox, ECU and exhaust and sourced them from Raceline in summer 2004, once specced up with additions like SLR cage (£650?), Carbon/Kevlar seats (upgrade cost of £400 I think), cut off switch, fire extinguiser, paint (£1,400!), Nitrons (£1,000?), dry sump (Raceline/Titan) (£1,000) the final bill was around £34K so if CC will do the same spec for £34-£35K that seems reasonable

Take a look at the pictures here to get an idea of the specc Here

[Bafty_Crastard]

I don’t remember the out going R400 with all the "bells and whistles" costing £35K,

And I’ve go to say, it’s a lot of money to shell out on this type of car!

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Saturday 27th January 12:04

[rubystone]

Bafty_Crastard said:

I don’t remember the out going R400 with all the "bells and whistles" costing £35K,

And I’ve go to say, it’s a lot of money to shell out on this type of car!

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Saturday 27th January 12:04

No - more like £25k ish right? Last year a pukka R400 sold for £20k BTW - private sale, car had covered some miles but still pretty good value.

If I had £35k to spend it'd be on a 993 Turbo 4 or a 355, not a Caterham, but that's just my opinion

[murph7355]

Bafty_Crastard said:

I don’t remember the out going R400 with all the "bells and whistles" costing £35K,

And I’ve go to say, it’s a lot of money to shell out on this type of car!

Agree totally.

Mind you, if people new to the marque are happy to pay that sort of money for one, and believe it to be good value, Caterham may have got their sums right and it has to be good for the brand.

Not to mention second hand values for the other cars out there. SLRs were cropping up around the 17k-18k mark a little while ago. Thick end of 20k difference between these and the new R400 is a serious amount of money for a car that is unlikely to be much (if any) quicker.

[murph7355]

rubystone said:

No - more like £25k ish right? Last year a pukka R400 sold for £20k BTW - private sale, car had covered some miles but still pretty good value...

IIRC it was relatively straightforward to get a R400 up around the 29-30k mark. But that's still a hefty difference.

[subirg]

Well, we can continue to speculate - the final spec/costs haven't been finalised... but I reckon the new R400 price will end up around £34 - 35k with the right optional goodies. Compared to a used k series r400 at £24k or an R500 at £23 - £25k that is a big difference. However, its a bargain compared to a CSR, and doesn't come with an engine made of cheese! If the market will pay the price, then that's fine by me - as long as residuals reflect this too... (and no one knows how that will work out...!).

Bafty - you have clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this, and from what you say, it sounds like you thought about ordering a new R400 and then backed out. If this is the case, then can you explain what drove your decision? Was it purely a cost issue, or was there more to it?

[Pugsey]

rubystone said:

Bafty_Crastard said:

I don’t remember the out going R400 with all the "bells and whistles" costing £35K,

And I’ve go to say, it’s a lot of money to shell out on this type of car!

Edited by Bafty_Crastard on Saturday 27th January 12:04

No - more like £25k ish right? Last year a pukka R400 sold for £20k BTW - private sale, car had covered some miles but still pretty good value.

If I had £35k to spend it'd be on a 993 Turbo 4 or a 355, not a Caterham, but that's just my opinion

Not having ago at you (ruby) in particular but someone always comes along with 'I'd buy something else for that money'. IMO someone looking for a Caterham (me!) isn't going to look at a 993Turbo or 355. I'm going for a Caterham a) because I just happen to like them and b) because I want a seriously quick trackday tool with high fun quotum and reasonable running costs. Neither of the cars you mention fit the bill. I still maintain that the cost is reasonable. To go quicker, new, you need a Radical which will cost a lot more to buy and to run.

[subirg]

Pugsey - well said.

I used to have a 355 - great car, but after 5years I wanted a change... and it cost an utter fortune to run e.g. last service came in at over £4k... I would however, recommend a 355 to anyone - a truelly fabulous car. I also considered a 996 RS, but I thought nearly £70k was a bit more than I wanted to spend right now, and it would just get spanked by an R400 on a track, which would be annoying. Also considered a 550 M - prob the best value V12 Ferrari out there at the moment - but again, just not that quick on a track and even more costly to run than a 355.

In the end, I chose the caterham on emotional reasons - it gives me the best 'fun' on a road and is decently quick on a track. I don't mind paying a bit more for a new car for a whole host of reasons included in an earlier post on this thread (or might be the other one called new vs old R400).

Finally - as mentioned earlier - the R400 base price is 27445. If you add in the base minimum options to get you a decent car (e.g. paint, 13" wheels and full weather gear), it will be closer to 30k. Above that, you are into 'toys' options or 'bling' options or other bits that you would prob upgrade to at some point (e.g. adjustable dampers), but don't necessarily need on day one. Hence, when compared to a second hand R400 at £25k that has done over 12k miles and been thrashed to death by evo hacks and assorted others I think that is actually not a bad deal..! Perhaps I'm strange and see things in a funny way! Always possible! Hahaaaaaaaaa.

[murph7355]

subirg said:

...and doesn't come with an engine made of cheese! ...

Bless you. You come from the F-car world yet still get sucked into hype

The K has its issues, but they're well known and documented and in the most part can be avoided by looking after the car (sensible maintenance regimes, monitoring of the car etc) and application of (now) widely available bits to strengthen the weaker bits.

In return, you get an engine that is extremely well suited to the Caterham 7, and can actually sound very nice indeed! One that also has seen many seasons of racing and over a decade of use in this application...

On the used cars being thrashed front, the same thing applies - coming from the F-car world you should know better again

It's what the cars are designed to do and they stand up to it well if looked after. You potentially stand to have far less issues with a car that's been used for its intended purpose BUT maintained properly, than one that's brought out for the odd weekend and that the owner looked at the mileage to address servicing and due care needs...it's incredibly easy to spot a dog 7.

Buying new won't stop issues either, particularly on an "unproven" engine.

However, I commend your (and Pugsey's) enthusiasm and can appreciate some of the logic being thrown at this. I remember very clearly picking up my first car (a nearly new one) and it was easily as exciting as when I picked up the other cars I'm fortunate to own. They are truly magnificent cars and you'll enjoy them immensely. Good luck.

PS Servicing costs for 7s are pretty reasonable, but track them hard and the costs can creep up quickly...Since owning quick cars I've come to the belief that there's no such thing as a cheap one to run!

[Pugsey]

murph7355 said:

subirg said:

...and doesn't come with an engine made of cheese! ...

Bless you. You come from the F-car world yet still get sucked into hype

The K has its issues, but they're well known and documented and in the most part can be avoided by looking after the car (sensible maintenance regimes, monitoring of the car etc) and application of (now) widely available bits to strengthen the weaker bits.

In return, you get an engine that is extremely well suited to the Caterham 7, and can actually sound very nice indeed! One that also has seen many seasons of racing and over a decade of use in this application...

On the used cars being thrashed front, the same thing applies - coming from the F-car world you should know better again

It's what the cars are designed to do and they stand up to it well if looked after. You potentially stand to have far less issues with a car that's been used for its intended purpose BUT maintained properly, than one that's brought out for the odd weekend and that the owner looked at the mileage to address servicing and due care needs...it's incredibly easy to spot a dog 7.

Buying new won't stop issues either, particularly on an "unproven" engine.

However, I commend your (and Pugsey's) enthusiasm and can appreciate some of the logic being thrown at this. I remember very clearly picking up my first car (a nearly new one) and it was easily as exciting as when I picked up the other cars I'm fortunate to own. They are truly magnificent cars and you'll enjoy them immensely. Good luck.

PS Servicing costs for 7s are pretty reasonable, but track them hard and the costs can creep up quickly...Since owning quick cars I've come to the belief that there's no such thing as a cheap one to run!

I'm sure subirg will be along at some point but since you included me too........
As you say the K series has issues and, quite apart from the fact that I just happen to want a new car - which some people seem to see as a crime! - I have no interest in buying a car knowing that I'll have to strengthen a weak engine - however widely available the bits are. Why buy yesterdays technology when I can have todays?
IMO there's a difference between having used your own car very hard - as I intend to - and having to hope that a secondhand car has been treated properly.
Finally, just to qualify my comments, this will be my fourth Caterham - I've owned and raced a 1700 crossflow, two K series Roadsports and a SuperlightR and believe me, compared with Porsches, Ferraris, Radicals etc. they are indeed 'cheap' to run! It's all reletive mind!

[rubystone]

Pugsey - I have no issues with what you want to do - your list of cars indicates that you have more than enough disposable income to buy what you want - although I guess you'll sell the Radical if you are buying a Caterham?...and yes...the cars I mentioned are clearly not track day tools - as I said, that's what I'd do with the money if I had it...but then I own an R500 which I'm happy with, cheesy engine or not.

The new R400 should be a very good car indeed - a decently specced one is, after all, the price of a new R500 (if one could buy one).

[POORCARDEALER]

if a fully specced car is £35K it a bargain, you are getting £500K car performance for a mere £35K!!!! Suppose in metal terms there doesnt look alot, but thats not what its about is it?