Discussion
Looking for some advice on a project I want to start. Currently own an R500. Great car, but just have the feeling that it can be better - an R600 perhaps. I want to start a new build, not bastardise the R500, and have a combination of diet and power to meet the target.
Concept is to start with a new R400 chassis, replace all the panels with carbon ones from RiF, go minimal on all the electrics etc. and see if I can get a finished car down to the 440kg level.
Choice of engine is a head scratcher. Don't want to go bike. Don't want to go for anything that's too highly stressed, and want to get down to 100db's for the track days. I'm going to need about 270hp to hit my 600/ton and was considering the Minister 2.3l duratec in 270 form. Thought about the 2.0l duratec in 270 form as well but feel that might be a bit highly strung.
Anyone got any advice?
Concept is to start with a new R400 chassis, replace all the panels with carbon ones from RiF, go minimal on all the electrics etc. and see if I can get a finished car down to the 440kg level.
Choice of engine is a head scratcher. Don't want to go bike. Don't want to go for anything that's too highly stressed, and want to get down to 100db's for the track days. I'm going to need about 270hp to hit my 600/ton and was considering the Minister 2.3l duratec in 270 form. Thought about the 2.0l duratec in 270 form as well but feel that might be a bit highly strung.
Anyone got any advice?
Easiest is surely "just" stick on a turbo/nitrous/supercharger. Has to be cheaper to keep your car. And the difference between an R500 and R600 is marginal compared to R300 to R500?
If you really want to keep sub 100db it's going to be very hard and expensive. I'm still trying, and have no idea how much bhp a rear exit exhaust will cost!
If you really want to keep sub 100db it's going to be very hard and expensive. I'm still trying, and have no idea how much bhp a rear exit exhaust will cost!
MikeE said:
The cheapest way to get a 250bhp engine to show 280bhp is to choose your dyno carefully, ask one of the R500 guys am I'm sure they'll point you in the right direction
hmmmm....and who says that a Duratec dyno result is any more believeable than an R500's? (and trust me, I'm on no particular side here!)no chance of getting to 440 Kg with a conventional car engine - the best you will get to is about 470 Kg (with no fuel) and a K series engine even with all ther carbon you can throw at it. The duratec engine will add between 8 > 20 Kg on that depending on the spec ( dry sump etc etc )
it will be interesting to see how these RiF carbon chassis skins fair after 5,000 mile and a load of stone chips on that gloss finish.
I would aim for 500 kg and a light pressure blown 2.3L Duratec @ 300bhp. Above this and you have issues with geatbox, cooling and drive train stress. Fit 185 section tyres if that isnt enough power !
it will be interesting to see how these RiF carbon chassis skins fair after 5,000 mile and a load of stone chips on that gloss finish.
I would aim for 500 kg and a light pressure blown 2.3L Duratec @ 300bhp. Above this and you have issues with geatbox, cooling and drive train stress. Fit 185 section tyres if that isnt enough power !
Edited by Dave J on Wednesday 27th June 08:01
Thank you guys. Looks like the idea is starting to take shape. A little difficult as a newcomer to this forum to know which of you are sarcastic ba****ds and which of you genuinely know what you are talking about.
DaveJ - Do I take it the spec sheet on my R500 is wrong? Do those boys at Caterham not mean 460kg when they say it? Am I complete t
t for believing what the nice men from the marketing department tell me? If they are right I can save 13kg on the carbon skins getting me to 447, and with a couple of DannyLt's ideas the 440 does not seem too far away.
Danny, thanks for the input, that 2.3 duratec at 270 sounds perfect for the job. Dave, I would rather stay conventional rather than blown if possible, but your idea would probably be quieter. But if I can stay with 270 and go lighter I should be able to avoid too many transmission problems which seem to go with the 300hp territory.
Anyone know where I can get a rear exit exhaust from?
DaveJ - Do I take it the spec sheet on my R500 is wrong? Do those boys at Caterham not mean 460kg when they say it? Am I complete t
t for believing what the nice men from the marketing department tell me? If they are right I can save 13kg on the carbon skins getting me to 447, and with a couple of DannyLt's ideas the 440 does not seem too far away. Danny, thanks for the input, that 2.3 duratec at 270 sounds perfect for the job. Dave, I would rather stay conventional rather than blown if possible, but your idea would probably be quieter. But if I can stay with 270 and go lighter I should be able to avoid too many transmission problems which seem to go with the 300hp territory.
Anyone know where I can get a rear exit exhaust from?
WKD - I'd put my money on the 350bhp 2.3l supercharged duratec being the convention in 12 months time. The new quaife gearbox (at a very reasonable £2500) will handle the power that just leaves you with the diff (and chassis!) to resolve. If you're going new build a CSR chassis and rear suspension should take the power so see if CC will do you a CSR starter kit and source the engine and gearbox from elsewhere (I can point you in the right direction if you're interested)
I can't believe carbon skins will save 13kg over what are pretty thin ali panels? (Though I have spoken to RiF at length and he's a thoroughly nice chap).
Be worth listening to the chaps about drivetrain issues too. Have said it before, but I'm not convinced the 7's drivetrain can really manage 300+bhp unless your idea of enjoyment is wheelspin in every gear or traction control cutting in. Often.
As it stands a 200-250bhp 7 will piss on most things on track or road. Driver ability is by far the biggest limiting factor in most circunmstances, and improvements there are transferable car to car.
BTW, most of us are piss taking bastards. And I also believe most who have posted thus far have been owners for a while
Be worth listening to the chaps about drivetrain issues too. Have said it before, but I'm not convinced the 7's drivetrain can really manage 300+bhp unless your idea of enjoyment is wheelspin in every gear or traction control cutting in. Often.
As it stands a 200-250bhp 7 will piss on most things on track or road. Driver ability is by far the biggest limiting factor in most circunmstances, and improvements there are transferable car to car.
BTW, most of us are piss taking bastards. And I also believe most who have posted thus far have been owners for a while
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