Discussion
"Great car, but just have the feeling that it can be better"
in what way ?
r600 = shedload of hassle and money and no matter how much you get your ego stroked in the pub car park there will always be someone who flies past you in a 135bhp megagrad car
an r500 is 500kg with half doors and FIA roll bar. You wouldn't even make 440kg with a busa let alone a duratec. Final point is that last time i looked, Minister were the last people to go to for a Duratec engine.
hope you are all well
in what way ?
r600 = shedload of hassle and money and no matter how much you get your ego stroked in the pub car park there will always be someone who flies past you in a 135bhp megagrad car
an r500 is 500kg with half doors and FIA roll bar. You wouldn't even make 440kg with a busa let alone a duratec. Final point is that last time i looked, Minister were the last people to go to for a Duratec engine.
hope you are all well
DaveJ - Do I take it the spec sheet on my R500 is wrong? Do those boys at Caterham not mean 460kg when they say it? Am I complete tt for believing what the nice men from the marketing department tell me?
............
I wasnt piss taking
Try weighing the R500 on some calibrated scales . I bet it will be 480 at best or nearer 500 if you have some extras on there. Bear in mind that these weights will be with all fluids and probably 5L of fuel on board.
The evo Caterham was 440Kg ?? . There are plenty of 400 - 440 kg sevens with Bike engines. Its the weight of the conventional engines and gearboxes and dry sumps that add up .
The complete package of the X330 engine and drivetrain I would bet you will struggle to get the all up true weight of the car using a std chassis and all the money, carbon, magnesium and titanium you can throw at it . You wont get below 480/490 Kg.
Normalbloke 400bhp + from your cossis turbo is impressive . Nut I still drove round you at Combe with 140bhp
hehehee
............
I wasnt piss taking
Try weighing the R500 on some calibrated scales . I bet it will be 480 at best or nearer 500 if you have some extras on there. Bear in mind that these weights will be with all fluids and probably 5L of fuel on board.
The evo Caterham was 440Kg ?? . There are plenty of 400 - 440 kg sevens with Bike engines. Its the weight of the conventional engines and gearboxes and dry sumps that add up .
The complete package of the X330 engine and drivetrain I would bet you will struggle to get the all up true weight of the car using a std chassis and all the money, carbon, magnesium and titanium you can throw at it . You wont get below 480/490 Kg.
Normalbloke 400bhp + from your cossis turbo is impressive . Nut I still drove round you at Combe with 140bhp
hehehee 
Murph7355 said:
Be worth listening to the chaps about drivetrain issues too. Have said it before, but I'm not convinced the 7's drivetrain can really manage 300+bhp unless your idea of enjoyment is wheelspin in every gear or traction control cutting in. Often.
As it stands a 200-250bhp 7 will piss on most things on track or road. Driver ability is by far the biggest limiting factor in most circunmstances, and improvements there are transferable car to car.
Re the drive-train and 300bhp after two years. My SC dog-box was mostly fine (the usual dog eared dogs). My diff was knackered. Ultra light clutch was not happy. Fauldsport changed the prop etc. out of principle. And this is staying away from fat slicks, which I bet would cause a lot more damage.As it stands a 200-250bhp 7 will piss on most things on track or road. Driver ability is by far the biggest limiting factor in most circunmstances, and improvements there are transferable car to car.
You are absolutely right about "enjoyment is wheelspin in every gear". This is pretty much what it's about - driving on the throttle everywhere which you can't do on the road. Highly entertaining and not much to do with quick (though obviously still pretty quick, but not annoyingly so with a big circuit).
Jackal, good to see you back. Missing your car yet?
Murph7355 said:
(Though I have spoken to RiF at length and he's a thoroughly nice chap).
Must've been after Donington then - I tapped him up to see whether you'd spoken to him - he says the panels are very much in an experimental stage - I think Norm's car was (one of) the first?I did think that WKD was Peter T posting under a "nom de plume", hence my "Project X" comment...
I thought my R500 was fast enough for me, but having just driven Snetterton in it, it needs more grunt down the straight
Murph7355 said:
Be worth listening to the chaps about drivetrain issues too. Have said it before, but I'm not convinced the 7's drivetrain can really manage 300+bhp unless your idea of enjoyment is wheelspin in every gear or traction control cutting in. Often.
As it stands a 200-250bhp 7 will piss on most things on track or road. Driver ability is by far the biggest limiting factor in most circunmstances, and improvements there are transferable car to car.
Tyres can make a significant difference as well. In a completely unscientific experiment As it stands a 200-250bhp 7 will piss on most things on track or road. Driver ability is by far the biggest limiting factor in most circunmstances, and improvements there are transferable car to car.
, Danny's (then 280bhp-ish) car with nasty, narrow ACB10s was lapping (well, driving sideways and spinning wheels) at about the same pace as my standard SLR on slicks.Murph7355 said:
BTW, most of us are piss taking bastards. And I also believe most who have posted thus far have been owners for a while
Amen. 
Saw your Fezza at Bromley Murph - niiiiiice. 
Edited by jeremyc on Friday 29th June 10:13
I'm not doubting that the evo caterham was declared as 360kg but I have a problem in understanding how this was achieved.
If you take my car with no unwanted bits and already stripped out with small battery all brackets removed , ally fuel tank strap, mag wheels , acbs big brakes , no handbrake, small lights, and daft things like carbon light blocks, and drilled stays (originally superlight model) with all carbon and no paint and remove the engine and gearbox and the seats and you still have a rolling chassis that weighs 362 Kg
then you have to add a fireblade engine and exhaust ........ this must weigh upwards of 70kg minimum ?
If you take my car with no unwanted bits and already stripped out with small battery all brackets removed , ally fuel tank strap, mag wheels , acbs big brakes , no handbrake, small lights, and daft things like carbon light blocks, and drilled stays (originally superlight model) with all carbon and no paint and remove the engine and gearbox and the seats and you still have a rolling chassis that weighs 362 Kg
then you have to add a fireblade engine and exhaust ........ this must weigh upwards of 70kg minimum ?
Edited by Dave J on Friday 29th June 10:38
ps - the lightest one I recall was Barry hunts Blackbird @ a genuine 388Kg but that wasnt road legal with instruments and it use da live axle which is 20Kg lighter than a dedion .
here is the thread ...
http://213-04.com/T.asp?id=61600
here is the thread ...
http://213-04.com/T.asp?id=61600
jeremyc said:
In a completely unscientific experiment , Danny's (then 280bhp-ish) car with nasty, narrow ACB10s was lapping (well, driving sideways and spinning wheels) at about the same pace as my standard SLR on slicks.
That was 250bhp - I make the distinction only because it was expensive, not because it makes much difference to corner exit speed , Danny's (then 280bhp-ish) car with nasty, narrow ACB10s was lapping (well, driving sideways and spinning wheels) at about the same pace as my standard SLR on slicks.
Sumarizing the advice so far......
No one believes that I can get much below 500kg. Fine, i'll bow to superior knowledge and work on that number. So I now need 300 hp and a quaife box but we don't yet have a diff that will take the power.
The engine sounds like a 2.3l duratec, but looks like it is going to be supercharged. The problem seems to be that in order to put that power down effectively it's going to have to be a CSR chassis and running gear which is going to add 50 to 60 kg to the package. Power now has to go up to 330hp to retain the ratio but the duratec will do that with s/c.
Looks like we have just designed the X330! If this is where you guys have got to then CC can't have got it all wrong. Perhaps I should just look at their spec and try to build to that. MikeE I might have to take you up on that offer.
No one believes that I can get much below 500kg. Fine, i'll bow to superior knowledge and work on that number. So I now need 300 hp and a quaife box but we don't yet have a diff that will take the power.
The engine sounds like a 2.3l duratec, but looks like it is going to be supercharged. The problem seems to be that in order to put that power down effectively it's going to have to be a CSR chassis and running gear which is going to add 50 to 60 kg to the package. Power now has to go up to 330hp to retain the ratio but the duratec will do that with s/c.
Looks like we have just designed the X330! If this is where you guys have got to then CC can't have got it all wrong. Perhaps I should just look at their spec and try to build to that. MikeE I might have to take you up on that offer.
did Raceline do the x330 s/c engine then, I didn't know that
Can't be PeterT, if it were he'd just tweak his 1.8l K-series to 330bhp N/A wouldn't be a problem, this engine tunings a piece of piss apparently
I'm not saying you brake early Danny but unless JeremyC was braking on the exit of corners (for the next corner) there's no way he was braking earlier than you!
Edited by MikeE on Friday 29th June 16:50
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