New Cterham. Set up advice needed please.

[Pugsey]

fcat said:

Casbar - contact Doc John for more info on OFR, he runs the club.
His details are available via www.doctorjohn.laycock.com

regards
fc

P.S. I notice Pugsey has gone quiet on this, in denial about eligibilty perhaps?

I'm saying and admitting NOTHING...............

[fcat]

[RobM77]

Make sure that it's setup up correctly for its road suspension. Race teams that run R400s will be used to setting cars up with firmer racing springs, which will result in different geometry.

[fergus]

RobM77 said:

Make sure that it's setup up correctly for its road suspension. Race teams that run R400s will be used to setting cars up with firmer racing springs, which will result in different geometry.

changing the spring rates doesn't change the static geometry one bit (once ride height has been set). I think you mean they will have different spring rates and also different geometry?

I would get the car corner weighted with you in the car, and then go from there. The geo isn't hard to adjust (on those cars where this is possible). If the car has an adjustable ARB this is a matter of personal preference. Tyre pressures also play an important role.

Don't get sucked into the whole 'fit some nitrons' argument, as you need to be able to set them up as well as just bolting them on. time spent just driving the car will give you chance to form some objective opinions on the handling to then give this information to whoever is going to help you tune out the handling traits you don't like. There is no 'magic' setup. This will depend on what you want to use the car for, how benign you want the car, and your driving style.

good luck.

[RobM77]

fergus said:

RobM77 said:

Make sure that it's setup up correctly for its road suspension. Race teams that run R400s will be used to setting cars up with firmer racing springs, which will result in different geometry.

changing the spring rates doesn't change the static geometry one bit (once ride height has been set). I think you mean they will have different spring rates and also different geometry?

I would get the car corner weighted with you in the car, and then go from there. The geo isn't hard to adjust (on those cars where this is possible). If the car has an adjustable ARB this is a matter of personal preference. Tyre pressures also play an important role.

Don't get sucked into the whole 'fit some nitrons' argument, as you need to be able to set them up as well as just bolting them on. time spent just driving the car will give you chance to form some objective opinions on the handling to then give this information to whoever is going to help you tune out the handling traits you don't like. There is no 'magic' setup. This will depend on what you want to use the car for, how benign you want the car, and your driving style.

good luck.

Sorry, I didn't explain that fully. You're right, changing the springs won't change the static geometry if the ride height is the same, but surely you'll need to change the geometry to actually drive the car with the stiffer springs? (correct me if I'm wrong here), because the stiffer springs of a racing Caterham will result in less roll, and therefore the actual camber that you'll get (and to some extent the toe) for a given cornering speed will be different.

[Pugsey]

fergus said:

RobM77 said:

Make sure that it's setup up correctly for its road suspension. Race teams that run R400s will be used to setting cars up with firmer racing springs, which will result in different geometry.

changing the spring rates doesn't change the static geometry one bit (once ride height has been set). I think you mean they will have different spring rates and also different geometry?

I would get the car corner weighted with you in the car, and then go from there. The geo isn't hard to adjust (on those cars where this is possible). If the car has an adjustable ARB this is a matter of personal preference. Tyre pressures also play an important role.

Don't get sucked into the whole 'fit some nitrons' argument, as you need to be able to set them up as well as just bolting them on. time spent just driving the car will give you chance to form some objective opinions on the handling to then give this information to whoever is going to help you tune out the handling traits you don't like. There is no 'magic' setup. This will depend on what you want to use the car for, how benign you want the car, and your driving style.

good luck.

Sound advice - the aim is to get it corner weighted and checked out to make sure nothing is stupidly out then play on track for a while before - as you say - getting it dialed into my prefered handling direction. No point in doing that till I know what the 'standard' car does.

[RobM77]

Pugsey said:

fergus said:

RobM77 said:

Make sure that it's setup up correctly for its road suspension. Race teams that run R400s will be used to setting cars up with firmer racing springs, which will result in different geometry.

changing the spring rates doesn't change the static geometry one bit (once ride height has been set). I think you mean they will have different spring rates and also different geometry?

I would get the car corner weighted with you in the car, and then go from there. The geo isn't hard to adjust (on those cars where this is possible). If the car has an adjustable ARB this is a matter of personal preference. Tyre pressures also play an important role.

Don't get sucked into the whole 'fit some nitrons' argument, as you need to be able to set them up as well as just bolting them on. time spent just driving the car will give you chance to form some objective opinions on the handling to then give this information to whoever is going to help you tune out the handling traits you don't like. There is no 'magic' setup. This will depend on what you want to use the car for, how benign you want the car, and your driving style.

good luck.

Sound advice - the aim is to get it corner weighted and checked out to make sure nothing is stupidly out then play on track for a while before - as you say - getting it dialed into my prefered handling direction. No point in doing that till I know what the 'standard' car does.

I'd strongly reccomend getting it checked and set against the standard Caterham settings though, before you go fiddling by putting on what a racing team think is the fastest setup. I'd go for standard settings, and do a good bit of driving on and off track, before thinking about how the car handles properly and then going back to aa setup place with some aims in mind.

[Murph7355]

RobM77 said:

I'd strongly reccomend getting it checked and set against the standard Caterham settings though, before you go fiddling by putting on what a racing team think is the fastest setup. I'd go for standard settings, and do a good bit of driving on and off track, before thinking about how the car handles properly and then going back to aa setup place with some aims in mind.

Depends what we regard as "standard".

Haven't tried a factory fresh one for some time (5yrs) but they used to be rubbish straight out of the box - too much understeer.

A good race shop will be able to interpret what you ask for into a "more or less right set up" that you can then tweak later, without the frustration of something that understeers like a family saloon simply because it's regarded as the safest option...

Neutral to mild oversteer would be where I'd start. Particularly with the cars that Pugs has had hold of recently.

[Pugsey]

Murph7355 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd strongly reccomend getting it checked and set against the standard Caterham settings though, before you go fiddling by putting on what a racing team think is the fastest setup. I'd go for standard settings, and do a good bit of driving on and off track, before thinking about how the car handles properly and then going back to aa setup place with some aims in mind.

Depends what we regard as "standard".

Haven't tried a factory fresh one for some time (5yrs) but they used to be rubbish straight out of the box - too much understeer.

A good race shop will be able to interpret what you ask for into a "more or less right set up" that you can then tweak later, without the frustration of something that understeers like a family saloon simply because it's regarded as the safest option...

Neutral to mild oversteer would be where I'd start. Particularly with the cars that Pugs has had hold of recently.

Very much my thinking Murph. Maybe I'm doing them an injustice, but I'm not actually confident that the car will come out of the factory on decent 'standard' settings even and I'd certainly want the car a little more 'pointy' than the two standard cars I tried so far - which differed from each other btw (!) but both understeered way to much.

RobM - I hear what you're saying and basically agree but as I've said have reservations about the basic factory set up and if I'm having that checked I might as well set my own starting point handling wise.

Edited by Pugsey on Thursday 19th July 10:09

[RobM77]

Murph7355 said:

RobM77 said:

I'd strongly reccomend getting it checked and set against the standard Caterham settings though, before you go fiddling by putting on what a racing team think is the fastest setup. I'd go for standard settings, and do a good bit of driving on and off track, before thinking about how the car handles properly and then going back to aa setup place with some aims in mind.

Depends what we regard as "standard".

Haven't tried a factory fresh one for some time (5yrs) but they used to be rubbish straight out of the box - too much understeer.

A good race shop will be able to interpret what you ask for into a "more or less right set up" that you can then tweak later, without the frustration of something that understeers like a family saloon simply because it's regarded as the safest option...

Neutral to mild oversteer would be where I'd start. Particularly with the cars that Pugs has had hold of recently.

My mistake then, sorry. I was going on my roadgoing Roadsport VVC, which had a lovely handling balance on track. I bought it from Caterham, but for all I know the car may have been set up differently to standard and I doubt Caterham check geometry on their secondhand stock.

[Murph7355]

RobM77 said:

My mistake then, sorry. I was going on my roadgoing Roadsport VVC, which had a lovely handling balance on track. I bought it from Caterham, but for all I know the car may have been set up differently to standard and I doubt Caterham check geometry on their secondhand stock.

Nowt to be sorry for - I could well be talking out of my harris

Though I'm doubtful they check it on new cars, let alone 2nd hand