Corner weighting
Discussion
I've read in several books that corner weighting should look to equalise the diagonal weights on the car to make turn into both right handers and left handers the same. However, the last two corner weight setups I've had (by suspension 'gurus'), have both sought to balance the weights over the front axle - presumably to prevent lock up of one particualr wheel under hard braking. When I've looked at the print out from the scales, the diagonals are some way off.
Anyone shed any light on what they think is the correct 'target' , i.e. front axle balance or diagonals being equal (this is the way the NASCARs, etc are setup, with 'wedge' or without).
Rather than pay £150 upwards for someone to wind up the spring platforms, I know my target ride heights and have access to a set of CW scales, so will do the job myself (with an assistant obviously, as I'll be in the car!).
The FAQ on blatchat/7FAQ seems favour the equalise the diagonals method....
Anyone shed any light on what they think is the correct 'target' , i.e. front axle balance or diagonals being equal (this is the way the NASCARs, etc are setup, with 'wedge' or without).
Rather than pay £150 upwards for someone to wind up the spring platforms, I know my target ride heights and have access to a set of CW scales, so will do the job myself (with an assistant obviously, as I'll be in the car!).
The FAQ on blatchat/7FAQ seems favour the equalise the diagonals method....
Well I'm not going to say exactly how I do it on here because some people pay me good money not to tell everyone else 
But I think heading blindly for either matching fronts or equal crossweights no matter the driver is not the way to do it because you can create some quite undesirable situations.
But I think heading blindly for either matching fronts or equal crossweights no matter the driver is not the way to do it because you can create some quite undesirable situations.sfaulds said:
I disagree, but to each their own.
Somehow I knew you would Edited by SimonY on Sunday 6th January 01:30
SimonY said:
... heading blindly for either matching fronts or equal crossweights no matter the driver is not the way to do it ....
I was only curious as to what people do in practice, as all the books suggest equalising the diagonal cross weights. Surely this would minimise the amount of torsional energy compared to car not balanced across the diagonals?What are the undesirable effects you mention? PM me if necessary. Many thanks
fergus said:
all the books suggest equalising the diagonal cross weights. Surely this would minimise the amount of torsional energy compared to car not balanced across the diagonals?
It seems to me that this is a simplification which will be about right a lot of the time, but won't get the corner weights quite right under some circumstances. (I think it will be inaccurate where the CoG is offset from the centre of the chassis laterally *and* longitudinally, and also where the chassis itself is not symetrical.)Edited by GreenV8S on Sunday 6th January 01:19
GreenV8S said:
It seems to me that this is a simplification which will be about right a lot of the time
Nothing's ever perfect, particularly on a 2-seater, but diagonal cross-weighting is as good a basic set-up as you'll get. You can always fine-tune by 'wedging' the weight distribution according to how the car responds, if the driver is sensitive enough to tell the difference (though I defy most drivers to judge the difference, unless there are serious geometrical or spring/damper problems to be compensated for elsewhere). Finchy172 said:
Remember a nascar goes round in circles, and has IRS.
A caterham has the mass of a driver on one side, and a de dion rear axle.
This is the reason Nascars have 'wedge' built into them to help them turn left. This is the amount that the car is not setup to have 50% over the diagonal.A caterham has the mass of a driver on one side, and a de dion rear axle.
A Nascar also doesn't have the driver in the middle, although they do have the ability to physically move weight around the car in the form of ballast.
Finchy - What would be your preferred target approach?
I'm spending some time with someone who works as a suspension engineer on a touring car team at the weekend, so will ask them for their thoughts on the subject.
I believe you work for Hyperion, and I'm not asking for a "trade secrets" type setup, just what you aim for when setting up the race cars
1) equal over front axle
2) 50% diagonal split
3) something else
kind regards
I worked at Hyperion for a period during my placement year with University and also spent a great deal of time at Taylors Foundry Motorsport In Haverhill.
If i was to be spending some money on a setup i would choose 2 places only.
TF Motorsport
Fauldsport
I wont go into the ins and outs of why and how we set cars up, as years and £££ of development to perfect these setups will then be available to everyone.
I myself have a R400, which is setup my way and beleive me on track days other CSR's and duratecs struggle to stay with the R.
If i was to be spending some money on a setup i would choose 2 places only.
TF Motorsport
Fauldsport
I wont go into the ins and outs of why and how we set cars up, as years and £££ of development to perfect these setups will then be available to everyone.
I myself have a R400, which is setup my way and beleive me on track days other CSR's and duratecs struggle to stay with the R.
I have always set up my cars with equal fronts, maybe with with a couple of kgs extra over the front right to help with not locking the lightly loaded corner into the predominantly right hand turn circuits that the UK has to offer.
Used this set up on several Caterham's & now a Radical with very good effect!
To my knowledge all the top performing Caterham's in the Hillclimb championships are set up in this way.
Used this set up on several Caterham's & now a Radical with very good effect!
To my knowledge all the top performing Caterham's in the Hillclimb championships are set up in this way.
Finchy172 said:
I worked at Hyperion for a period during my placement year with University and also spent a great deal of time at Taylors Foundry Motorsport In Haverhill.
If i was to be spending some money on a setup i would choose 2 places only.
TF Motorsport
Fauldsport
I wont go into the ins and outs of why and how we set cars up, as years and £££ of development to perfect these setups will then be available to everyone.
I myself have a R400, which is setup my way and beleive me on track days other CSR's and duratecs struggle to stay with the R.
Out of interest, why these guys Brad? If i was to be spending some money on a setup i would choose 2 places only.
TF Motorsport
Fauldsport
I wont go into the ins and outs of why and how we set cars up, as years and £££ of development to perfect these setups will then be available to everyone.
I myself have a R400, which is setup my way and beleive me on track days other CSR's and duratecs struggle to stay with the R.
Finchy172 said:
I myself have a R400, which is setup my way and beleive me on track days other CSR's and duratecs struggle to stay with the R.
...and how much do you think that is to do with the set-up and how much the driver?? My view would be that it is more to do with personal taste and perhaps what you've been used to...but also the amount of difference, in terms of lap/sprint times, it makes is much smaller than is being suggested here.
...and with regards to the 'well known specialist near Brands Hatch', I've spent plenty of laps chasing cars and records set by caterhams that he has set-up, so I wouldn't be critical of his work!
townrow said:
I find it strange no one has mentioned ride heights.
Rake is probably one of the most important setup points of a Caterham and to set up corner weights that would detrimental to those would be silly.
Not that I'm any kind of expert.
You do both, they're not mutually exclusive - the intention is to have the car at the correct ride heights/rake as well as having the correct cornerweights.Rake is probably one of the most important setup points of a Caterham and to set up corner weights that would detrimental to those would be silly.
Not that I'm any kind of expert.
Seconding the above comments regarding Freestyle, what Gary doesn't know about Caterham setup is not worth knowing!
With my Busa seven, I could'nt get within 1.5secs of Brodie on the hillclimbs. Following a suspension tweekie from Gary I was left with a genuine talent gap of a more acceptable 0.5 of a second!
With my Busa seven, I could'nt get within 1.5secs of Brodie on the hillclimbs. Following a suspension tweekie from Gary I was left with a genuine talent gap of a more acceptable 0.5 of a second!
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