Ex- race cars, a wise buy for trackdays?
Discussion
Long story short...
Run an Impreza STi PPP that I use everyday and for trackdays. Decided to run 2 cars, everyday car and a something for UK and European trackdays. Don't really want to bend my only car on track. So probably get a £4k rep-mobile and a Caterham/Westfield and a trailer. I'm doing 5k a year just in Ring trips so it now makes sense to tow.
I've seen this for sale http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/541445.htm 'ticks the right boxs' price wise and track ready etc. Any potential problems with ex racers i.e. crash damaged, engine wear etc.
Any advice would be welcome.
Oh and any good tow cars you can recommend for circa £4000 would be helpful.
Thanks,
Mark
Run an Impreza STi PPP that I use everyday and for trackdays. Decided to run 2 cars, everyday car and a something for UK and European trackdays. Don't really want to bend my only car on track. So probably get a £4k rep-mobile and a Caterham/Westfield and a trailer. I'm doing 5k a year just in Ring trips so it now makes sense to tow.
I've seen this for sale http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/541445.htm 'ticks the right boxs' price wise and track ready etc. Any potential problems with ex racers i.e. crash damaged, engine wear etc.
Any advice would be welcome.
Oh and any good tow cars you can recommend for circa £4000 would be helpful.
Thanks,
Mark
Hi Mark,
Certainly for what you suggest, an ex-racecar makes a lot of sense for trackdays. Ready prepared, they usually have had far better servicing and attention than a road car. Mechanically I would expect a car to be in excellent condition. Cosmetics-wise they may be a little dinged or frayed round the edges but this should be easy to spot and negotiate according to condition. Unlike an ordinary car, Caterhams don't tend to "hide" their damage very easily so what you see is what you get.
So buy on condition and specification. If you are considering the car on PH as being suitable, have a word with Rubystone and I think he might be able to point you in the right direction and save some of your budget too.
If you are interested in a(nother) Scooby as a towcar, a friend has just changed her old car for the latest model and is selling an R reg model for £2.5k I think that she bought off her father a while ago - he's got another one and a new one being imported via Litchfield right now so they are enthusiasts!
HTH
T
Certainly for what you suggest, an ex-racecar makes a lot of sense for trackdays. Ready prepared, they usually have had far better servicing and attention than a road car. Mechanically I would expect a car to be in excellent condition. Cosmetics-wise they may be a little dinged or frayed round the edges but this should be easy to spot and negotiate according to condition. Unlike an ordinary car, Caterhams don't tend to "hide" their damage very easily so what you see is what you get.
So buy on condition and specification. If you are considering the car on PH as being suitable, have a word with Rubystone and I think he might be able to point you in the right direction and save some of your budget too.
If you are interested in a(nother) Scooby as a towcar, a friend has just changed her old car for the latest model and is selling an R reg model for £2.5k I think that she bought off her father a while ago - he's got another one and a new one being imported via Litchfield right now so they are enthusiasts!
HTH
T
Thanks for the reply.
I'm glad to hear they are normally mechanically sound. Scratches, small dents and dings aren't an issue but good to haggle over. I emailed the garage earlier today, not got a reply yet. I'll hopefully view the car at the weekend. It's not far from Caterham so I'll pop in there on my way home.
Rubystone? Is this a users ID or a specialist?
Possibly interested in the car for sale, can't help to have some details... Litchfield/Powerstation, probably the best garage I've ever dealt with both in service and knowledge. Their set-up is impressive.
I'm glad to hear they are normally mechanically sound. Scratches, small dents and dings aren't an issue but good to haggle over. I emailed the garage earlier today, not got a reply yet. I'll hopefully view the car at the weekend. It's not far from Caterham so I'll pop in there on my way home.
Rubystone? Is this a users ID or a specialist?
Possibly interested in the car for sale, can't help to have some details... Litchfield/Powerstation, probably the best garage I've ever dealt with both in service and knowledge. Their set-up is impressive.
As a Caterham racer I would certainly agree race cars can be good value. As suggested any issues will generally be fairly easy to spot and racers are usually happy to spend money if there is even a suspicion that there might be a problem. I'd probably want to compression test the engine to check for any "piston/valve interface" issues caused by missed gear changes and I'd be looking for extra stuff like spare sets of wheels/tyres, a trailer, various anti-roll bars and all the kit that you might otherwise have to buy if you are planning to seriously track a car. Most cars will have had a few knocks but this is rarely an issue as even major chasis damage is always professionally repaired by Arch as this is a requirement under series rules. In some respects a five year old car with a "long front" repair will be a better car than an original car with no damage.
It's worth knowing that Caterham are introducing a new race series next year for the new R300 so a number of existing Roadsports racers will be selling and moving up. Some of these cars will be only 3 or 4 years old and will probably have had recent engine rebuilds but will still cost only £12,500 to £13,500, significantly cheaper than comparable road cars and with a pure track focused spec and road legal registration.
If you do find an ex race car up for sale just post up on here and you'll get plenty of people who can tell you about its history.
It's worth knowing that Caterham are introducing a new race series next year for the new R300 so a number of existing Roadsports racers will be selling and moving up. Some of these cars will be only 3 or 4 years old and will probably have had recent engine rebuilds but will still cost only £12,500 to £13,500, significantly cheaper than comparable road cars and with a pure track focused spec and road legal registration.
If you do find an ex race car up for sale just post up on here and you'll get plenty of people who can tell you about its history.
Mark,
Rubystone is a Pistonheads ID and posts very regulary on the Caterham threads. Just mention I said to get in touch with him...
I have just checked the Scooby details and the car was snapped up at that price without a problem so sorry for that. Otherwise get yourself sorted with a diesel merc - they swallow up the miles effortlessly ;-)
Cheers
T
Rubystone is a Pistonheads ID and posts very regulary on the Caterham threads. Just mention I said to get in touch with him...
I have just checked the Scooby details and the car was snapped up at that price without a problem so sorry for that. Otherwise get yourself sorted with a diesel merc - they swallow up the miles effortlessly ;-)
Cheers
T
My experience with race cars (2 of) is that they are race cars. The whole "meticulously looked after" thing is just a myth. Race cars are very often bodged, held together with sealing wax and string and often totally knackered.
It's a very hard life being a race car. Now maybe there are excpetions, a single season academy car that hasn't been dinged may be fine.
It doesn't mean they are poor value, just go into it with your eyes open. Finding a jewel when you expect poo is far better than thinking you have a winner to find out it's bodged and knackered.
Bert
It's a very hard life being a race car. Now maybe there are excpetions, a single season academy car that hasn't been dinged may be fine.
It doesn't mean they are poor value, just go into it with your eyes open. Finding a jewel when you expect poo is far better than thinking you have a winner to find out it's bodged and knackered.
Bert
My experience with race cars (2 of) is that they are race cars. The whole "meticulously looked after" thing is just a myth. Race cars are very often bodged, held together with sealing wax and string and often totally knackered.
It's a very hard life being a race car. Now maybe there are excpetions, a single season academy car that hasn't been dinged may be fine.
It doesn't mean they are poor value, just go into it with your eyes open. Finding a jewel when you expect poo is far better than thinking you have a winner to find out it's bodged and knackered.
Bert
It's a very hard life being a race car. Now maybe there are excpetions, a single season academy car that hasn't been dinged may be fine.
It doesn't mean they are poor value, just go into it with your eyes open. Finding a jewel when you expect poo is far better than thinking you have a winner to find out it's bodged and knackered.
Bert
It depends on who it has been maintained by, i have seen caterhams being looked after by proffesional race service teams and they have been scabby and battered to hell, and on the other hand cars that have been maintained by private racers that have been mint. If you look in all the right areas and check the condition of the car throughout you should be able to make a good judgement yourself.
If its going to be used on the track a purpose built car will have far less non-essential kit on it, take a road going version and strip it you will still have some bits on that are going to be nightmare to remove or swap and theres the time to do it as well, although you can get rid of most of the bits on Ebay. It would be a shame to totally strip a good road going car, to get it to a level that still may not be %100 track orientated as you think it should be. I had a fury that was origionaly a road car but converted to track/ competition use, i had to swap the brakes, get lightwieght bodywork, harden the bushes, strengthen the chassis, get different wheels/tyres, remove loads of non-essential interior trimming and panels, get different suspension, set the suspension up etc, it cost me more than i would have been to buy a top spec race prepped car!.
for a couple of grand more:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/491686.htm
A very competitive car!
Towing wise if your only going to use it for towing and not every day i would get a van, you can kip in the back when you go to further circuit, and you can put more gear in it to be fully preppered in comfort rather than cramming it all in a sitting in the front like Stephen Hawking!
If its going to be used on the track a purpose built car will have far less non-essential kit on it, take a road going version and strip it you will still have some bits on that are going to be nightmare to remove or swap and theres the time to do it as well, although you can get rid of most of the bits on Ebay. It would be a shame to totally strip a good road going car, to get it to a level that still may not be %100 track orientated as you think it should be. I had a fury that was origionaly a road car but converted to track/ competition use, i had to swap the brakes, get lightwieght bodywork, harden the bushes, strengthen the chassis, get different wheels/tyres, remove loads of non-essential interior trimming and panels, get different suspension, set the suspension up etc, it cost me more than i would have been to buy a top spec race prepped car!.
for a couple of grand more:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/491686.htm
A very competitive car!
Towing wise if your only going to use it for towing and not every day i would get a van, you can kip in the back when you go to further circuit, and you can put more gear in it to be fully preppered in comfort rather than cramming it all in a sitting in the front like Stephen Hawking!
Edited by sam919 on Thursday 19th June 05:46
Race cars are the smae as any other cars, some are well looked after, some are wiped over with a rag and some are shagged.
If you go to a race meeting you can soon see which cars are looked after and which are not. Rather than search the ads it makes more sense to get yourself down to the pits and walk around. As has been mentioned there is a new caterham series next year and there are certainly cars going to be available, it is worth giving your details to the owners of the cars you like the look of.
If you go to a race meeting you can soon see which cars are looked after and which are not. Rather than search the ads it makes more sense to get yourself down to the pits and walk around. As has been mentioned there is a new caterham series next year and there are certainly cars going to be available, it is worth giving your details to the owners of the cars you like the look of.
be aware that the car has to be road legal for use on the ring, although I do run mine on f/ford ACB10s.... You may have difficulty getting a race car through the MOT...
I use a 2001 VW passat Tdi 130 estate as a tow car. One with around 100k miles+ will be around 4-5k and will do about 35-38mpg towing at 70mph.
I also do about 6 trips to the ring a year and the fuel costs can add up.
I use a 2001 VW passat Tdi 130 estate as a tow car. One with around 100k miles+ will be around 4-5k and will do about 35-38mpg towing at 70mph.
I also do about 6 trips to the ring a year and the fuel costs can add up.
Hello,
Mine is an ex race car, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend one based on my experiences of the last year.
The price saving over a good road car was about £5000, and as a bonus mine has a dry sump, extinguisher, brake bias valve and limited slip diff. Cosmetically it was tatty, but £400 spent on smart repairs and localised respraying has made the world of difference.
It will never be a mint car, but as a fun road and trackday car it's perfect.
Cheers, Dave
Mine is an ex race car, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend one based on my experiences of the last year.
The price saving over a good road car was about £5000, and as a bonus mine has a dry sump, extinguisher, brake bias valve and limited slip diff. Cosmetically it was tatty, but £400 spent on smart repairs and localised respraying has made the world of difference.
It will never be a mint car, but as a fun road and trackday car it's perfect.
Cheers, Dave
To be honest, if you're saving £5k, a grand on a reskin by arch, 400 quid for new fiberglass, and another grand for a paint job and you'll end up with a pristine car for over 3.5k less, and that's before you've flogged the rollcage to a racer who's had a prang! I bought my last cage 2nd hand for 500 quid, and I'm sure someone would buy a fire extinguishing system for a few hundred quid... probably enough to buy you some carpets and such!
Skydragon said:
I'm also thinking of buying an ex-Acamdemy Caterham (Roadsport 1.6).
Has anyone a basic 'snag list' of the main things to check against when looking to buy an ex-Acamdemy car?
(noted suggestion above ref doing a compression test)
better off with a leakdown test, rather than a compression testHas anyone a basic 'snag list' of the main things to check against when looking to buy an ex-Acamdemy car?
(noted suggestion above ref doing a compression test)
>>better off with a leakdown test, rather than a compression test<<
But woudn't a simple compression test on each cylinder, show whether a cylinder (or more than one) was defective? (at which point I'd be walking away from the car anyway).
I'd always thought a leakdown test was only necessary after a compression test had been done, to establish which cylinder was faulty?
On the same theme, On a Caterham 1.6 K-series engine, how many PSI would you expect to see on each cylinder, in a good healthy engine?
The gearbox comment above sounds a bit worrying (eek) I guess the only way of testing that is a drive test and changing smoothly up/down through all the gears a few times to double check everything is ok?
Thanks for your help.
But woudn't a simple compression test on each cylinder, show whether a cylinder (or more than one) was defective? (at which point I'd be walking away from the car anyway).
I'd always thought a leakdown test was only necessary after a compression test had been done, to establish which cylinder was faulty?
On the same theme, On a Caterham 1.6 K-series engine, how many PSI would you expect to see on each cylinder, in a good healthy engine?
The gearbox comment above sounds a bit worrying (eek) I guess the only way of testing that is a drive test and changing smoothly up/down through all the gears a few times to double check everything is ok?
Thanks for your help.
Edited by Skydragon on Friday 20th June 13:42
Edited by Skydragon on Friday 20th June 13:49
Skydragon said:
>>better off with a leakdown test, rather than a compression test<<
But woudn't a simple compression test on each cylinder, show whether a cylinder (or more than one) was defective? (at which point I'd be walking away from the car anyway).
I'd always thought a leakdown test was only necessary after a compression test had been done, to establish which cylinder was faulty?
On the same theme, On a Caterham 1.6 K-series engine, how many PSI would you expect to see on each cylinder, in a good healthy engine?
The gearbox comment above sounds a bit worrying (eek) I guess the only way of testing that is a drive test and changing smoothly up/down through all the gears a few times to double check everything is ok?
Check out http://www.dietersmotorsports.com/Compression-leak... - quite a good summary. Compression tests allow comparison between cylinders and a leakdown test shows how well a cylinder is able to maintain it's pressure, i.e. whether there are any leaks! But woudn't a simple compression test on each cylinder, show whether a cylinder (or more than one) was defective? (at which point I'd be walking away from the car anyway).
I'd always thought a leakdown test was only necessary after a compression test had been done, to establish which cylinder was faulty?
On the same theme, On a Caterham 1.6 K-series engine, how many PSI would you expect to see on each cylinder, in a good healthy engine?
The gearbox comment above sounds a bit worrying (eek) I guess the only way of testing that is a drive test and changing smoothly up/down through all the gears a few times to double check everything is ok?
Both are *very* easy to do on a caterham, although tbh, on a std 1.6 k series I think looking at the plugs would be enough (prior to starting it and listening for wierd sounds, etc).
The baulk rings on the 6 sp are susceptible to wear, making shifting difficult sometimes. Also, the selector forks can get tiny indentations in them, again, making gear selection slightly harder. The test drive should show this up. If the gearbox needs to 'warm up', it probably has too thick an oil in it. There may be a *slight* shift resistance when cold, but hopefully nothing marked....
good luck.
I would like to add that race teams can only prepare cars to customers budgets.
Some customers have a small budget so dont want wings replaced or rear panels repaired they just want a basic prep and setup between events.
Some private racers may have immaculate looking car but mechanically sound it most probably wont be due to the fact that teams know what there doing and what to look out for.
If your an after an ex race car that will be scooby speed look at an R400 as a roadsport will simply bore you to tears after a while.
I have an R400 race car for track days and as long as i use hand signals most trackday companies let us out!
I would highly reccomend getting one!
If you need any more information on ex race cars, setup or prep then dont hesitate to contact me!
Some customers have a small budget so dont want wings replaced or rear panels repaired they just want a basic prep and setup between events.
Some private racers may have immaculate looking car but mechanically sound it most probably wont be due to the fact that teams know what there doing and what to look out for.
If your an after an ex race car that will be scooby speed look at an R400 as a roadsport will simply bore you to tears after a while.
I have an R400 race car for track days and as long as i use hand signals most trackday companies let us out!
I would highly reccomend getting one!
If you need any more information on ex race cars, setup or prep then dont hesitate to contact me!
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