RE: Caterham Superlight R500

[neon_fox]

murph7355 said:

There was a Wankel engined 7 for sale on Blatchat a while ago at a very good price. Can't recall who owned it, but worth a look. Makes a lot of sense, but there must be hassles and drawbakc or everyone would do it.

No hassles or drawback indicated by my research that were not normally part of a foreign engine transplant job (apart from poor oil and fuel consumption, and we're not really worried about that, are we?)

I considered putting a N/A dual rotor in my MX-5 (200bhp) or even a N/A triple rotor (300bhp) :-O but instead bought an Elsie...

Fox
---

[Mojocvh]

dinkel said:

Dave Tripp said: Back in the early 70's, I was in Atlanta, and one of the boys who worked for Jimmy Downing (Mazda Kudzu, HANS-device, etc) gave me a ride in his Lotus 7 Series 4. The original owner managed to get it into the Chattahoochee River; the boys pulled it out and replaced the Lotus engine with one of Jimmy's old Mazda rotaries. Given dinkel's comment below about that sweet Honda engine, and the link to the international engine awards, it is interesting that the Renesis was the overall winner last year. Now THAT would be a tool and a half... So RX8 Wankel in a Catherham: must be room enough! and a good idea I did not came across yet.

Wankel engine transplants: old hat really, think it all started back in '79, mind you it was a striker...

MoJo

[superlightr]

250 bhp - blimey, when the first R500 came out with 210 bhp I think most blew up, I think 190bhp with the SLR was a realistic max for the 1.8K. Good engine, lovely sound, very reliable.

[murph7355]

superlightr said:

250 bhp - blimey, when the first R500 came out with 210 bhp I think most blew up, I think 190bhp with the SLR was a realistic max for the 1.8K. Good engine, lovely sound, very reliable.

Unless you have empirical evidence to back up what you just said, that's a bit naughty. And the main reason why urban myths are propogated, perhaps to the detriment of the subject.

I believe that the R500 was released with 230bhp.

A number of initial failures were experienced, but I'm not convinced that it was "most" of them, or indeed anywhere near what such a word would suggest.

Caterham dealt with the initial failures with the original owners and over a short space of time, improvements were made that made the cars pretty robust if serviced correctly. These improvements could also be applied to engine variants further down the range to enhance reliability too (performance engineering improving the breed).

All manner of comparisons have been made of these engines with other variants, their reliability and so on and so forth, but most, until the advent of the pokier Duratecs, didn't really stand scrutiny.

It remains as a point of fact that the K series has been a good servant of the Caterham. Most regard the K in its many variants as the subliminal engine for the 7 of the last 10yrs.

Is it perfect? No way. And there are now some alternatives available that are showing great promise. But in the context of a Caterham 7 they are, thus far, largely unproven.

Do I think the R500, and now the Evo, to be the best of the 7 breed? No.

I do agree that the 190-200bhp K's are probably the best bet in a 7, but not because of reliability.

Incidentally, I've owned an R500, and still own a 200ish bhp K powered car.

Edited to note that the Evo version is a 2l, not a 1.8.

>> Edited by murph7355 on Monday 12th April 16:46

[superlightr]

Dont get me wrong, I think the k is a good engine for the 7, and love the 7 brand, and in the mists of time when I got my SLR and I was very active on the track, and the 7 web sites, 7 events, I do recall there being a general 'problem' with the first batch of R500's and being too highly strung. talking on the 7 sites and at track days and low flying mag. It was may main reason not to change up to a R500.

Im sure they have improved as this is some years ago now, but still 250bhp from a K1.8 is a lot and there were problems in the past when they streached it that far.

[superlightr]

yes I agree saying 'most ' was inappropriate as I cannot prove that. Apologies.

- there were perhaps a 'few' noisy and upset owners who were posting at the time and seeing and talking with a few r500 owners at track days who had 'broken' r500's did not help.

>> Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 13th April 15:39

[MikeE]

Interesting comments below, I've just sold my 135bhp Superlight, before that I had two Tuscan S6s and a Griffith. I've got to say I NEVER got overtaken by any TVR on track and that's with only 135bhp, even on the Bedford GT circuit I was way faster than the Tuscans and Cerbs.

So I've sold my Superlight after two trouble free and very enjoyable years ownership (incidently in those two years I suffered 15% depreciation so running costs were very low). I've now ordered an R500 with all the goodies (all the carbon , stack dash, adjustable suspension, full roll cage etc) but minus one vital ingredient, I've deleted the K-series engine (and gearbox, exhaust and ECU) from the order. The reason? I'm going to fit a 250bhp 2.3l Duratec (which weighs about 5 kg more than a K-series)

IMHO the Duratec is the way to go, for less than an R500 I'll have a fully kitted track spec Superlight (R500) with more power/torque than an R500 Evo but with standard (ish) Duratec internals.

[dinkel]

MikeE said:

Interesting comments below, I've just sold my 135bhp Superlight, before that I had two Tuscan S6s and a Griffith. I've got to say I NEVER got overtaken by any TVR on track and that's with only 135bhp, even on the Bedford GT circuit I was way faster than the Tuscans and Cerbs. So I've sold my Superlight after two trouble free and very enjoyable years ownership (incidently in those two years I suffered 15% depreciation so running costs were very low). I've now ordered an R500 with all the goodies (all the carbon , stack dash, adjustable suspension, full roll cage etc) but minus one vital ingredient, I've deleted the K-series engine (and gearbox, exhaust and ECU) from the order. The reason? I'm going to fit a 250bhp 2.3l Duratec (which weighs about 5 kg more than a K-series) IMHO the Duratec is the way to go, for less than an R500 I'll have a fully kitted track spec Superlight (R500) with more power/torque than an R500 Evo but with standard (ish) Duratec internals.

Good story, have fun with the 2.3! Post the pics . . .

[rubystone]

Mike, - Caterham have relaxed the rules on buying an R500 minus engine then?

If you're going 2.3l Duratec, is it Minister's?

[sook]

Mike,

I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but this might be of interest to you.

www.shawspeed.com/ekits.htm

Although no figures are quoted, they car that Total Kitcars recently tested had been measured at 268bhp at the wheels (2l Duratec).

Obviously, I have no idea what a 2.3l Duratec and running gear costs, but it's interesting all the same.

[dinkel]

Imagine that at 8000 rpm! in front of you . . .

[rubystone]

Just remember to step over the exhaust as you exit the car!

[chiz]

Hello Mike,

I'm pretty much doing the same next year. I'm going to build an SV-R (or whatever it will be called) then I will get somebody to fit the engine for me.

Choice of engine is one of these 3 so far:
1. 2.3 litre Duratec (Mega-Torque) from Minister Power
2. Samish engine from Raceline
3. V8 (2 Yahama bike engines based) from The 7 Workshop

Will Caterham sell you a kit without the wheels as well? I have my own choice of wheel, the Compomotive CXR.

Since I've already bought 2 cars from them I don't see it being a problem.

>> Edited by chiz on Wednesday 14th April 15:20

[MikeE]

Rubystone, er call it artistic licence! It's officially an R400 minus engine/gearbox/bell housing/ECU/exhaust. I'm then adding the following:


Uprated master cylinder
SLR Cage
Plumbed in extinguisher (in boot)
Battery master switch
Carbon Kevlar Tillet Upgrade
Carbon Interchangeable aero
Carbon Mirrors
Tonneue & half doors
Full carbon (nose, wings, dash etc)
Full stack dash and data logging
Programmable Sequential Shift Up Lights (R500)
Polished Alloy fuel filler
Small (5 3/4") Headlights
13" R500 Wheels
ACB10 Tyres
0.25 Degree Rear Ears and Front Camber (suitable for ACB10s)
3.92 LSD Diff
Freestyle trackday spec. springs/dampers/roll bars and flat floor
Raceline triple pass Radiator
Pace 3 stage Dry sump system and easy clean tank and hoses



So bar the aerofoil front wishbones and 'carbon look' transmission tunnel trim that's an R500 (the other main R500 difference is of course the engine and magnesium bell housing both of which I'm ditching).

On top of that lot I'm adding:


Paint (colour TBC)
Paint (inc cage)
Bare carbon nose BAND ONLY - "7" Emblem in radiator intake in (against black background)
Bare carbon wings (front and Rear)
ArmourFend side panels

.....and a Raceline Duratec, either a 225bhp 2.0litre or a 250bhp 2.3litre (still can't decided but I suspect the 2.3 will destroy the drivetrain so I may opt for 225bhp for now) plus 5 speed close ratio box, light weight fly wheel and competition clutch, 4 - 2- 1 exhasut and finally full Raceline installation pack.

cheers,
Mike

[MikeE]

oh forgot to say,

Chiz, if you're not going to build your Duratec SV until next year you may change your mind come Jan 2005

[rubystone]

Mike, good spec - I don't know why your colours have been censored, mind. Why didn't you go for the 6 speed Caterham 'box? I guess you know how good it is.

[chiz]

Hello Mike,

Why?

[MikeE]

Rubystone,

The 6 speed box is quite simply the best gearbox I've every experienced. I'm sure you probably know but it was designed by CC to get the most out of the 1.4 and 1.6 K-series engines, it has very close ratios which means you can keep the high reving K engines 'on the boil'.

However the Duratec has a much wider power spread and more torque so it's not necessary to keep changing gear to keep it in the rev range. There is a guy on Blatchat who has a 6 speed box with his Duratec and he's actually in the process of replacing it with a 5 speed box as he's says you spend too much of your time changing gear when driving hard

Chiz - well I believe the Rover deal ends this year so who know's what form the SV-R might take

[chiz]

Ah, yes, I see.

But I was thinking along the lines of 300 bhp, and Caterham themselves are very unlikely to offer me this.

And please no mention of that awful 4 letter word:

NEED

[rubystone]

Oh you mean Rich Morris - I think he just likes to play :-) I thought he was buying a sequential 'box (I can't remember the name - Elite or similar?).

You're not going for the rather noisy Quaife though are you?