Should I buy a VX220 Turbo?
Discussion
Please bear with me on this rambling post!!
I currently have 2 cars - a sensible family saloon (MG ZT, with 4.6 V8, booked in for supercharging next week so 400 bhp), and a supercharged Porsche 993. I love the Porsche, but since getting the V8 MG (which is a bloody good laugh to drive), it's only getting used as a toy. The MG is better at all other 'everyday' driving and is also proper fast.
Thus I'm using the Porker for fun, and for trackdays. As expected the 993 is pretty expensive in terms of trackday running costs, and it seems a shame to relegate it to 'toy' status.
As a result I'm thinking of going for something cheaper that's more focused for trackdays. I used to have a Noble M12 but I'm not getting another one as they're too expensive for what I want now. I'd like to cut car costs overall.
The VX220 Turbo seems just the ticket - reasonably cheap to buy, very cheap to run (in comparison), and presumably fantastic handling.
So should I buy one? I need to store it outside in all weathers (no garage) and I'd like a hardtop for security. Leaky cars piss me off and I'd rather not try to live with something that pisses me off - I'd rather get something I really like to begin with. For this reason, pure trackday cars are out of the question - Caterfields, Atoms, etc. Equally, I may not drive it all week, but I want it to start without drama at the weekend - I don't want something that spends all the time in the garage getting 'fettled'. Basically, I've been spoilt by the Porsche.
I used to have a S1 Elise with a Bell & Colvill 160 kit, this was unusable due to the noise - I suppose it may have been alright with earplugs / ear defenders but I don't want this with the VX. Is the VX quieter in general than a tuned Elise?
Equally is the VX better put together than the Elise? The reason I'm definitely not considering an Elise is because it felt like it was falling apart when I owned one, and I simply don't want a K series engine. The new charged Toyota Elises are far too expensive (Noble money!)
Obviously the VX shares Elise genes, so can someone let me know the difference in 'feel' and use?
It's a 'feel' thing for me - my old Elise felt like a breakdown waiting to happen, whereas the Noble and a Griff 500 I owned felt reliable and dependable. As long as it can be made to not leak! The Griff never leaked, so I don't see why not.
Ideally if there's someone out there who has owned both an Elise and a VX who may be able to answer my questions!
So far the VX seems like the best bet and I love the look of the things, however I'm a bit concerned that it will be too much like an old Elise and I didn't really get on with mine.
I currently have 2 cars - a sensible family saloon (MG ZT, with 4.6 V8, booked in for supercharging next week so 400 bhp), and a supercharged Porsche 993. I love the Porsche, but since getting the V8 MG (which is a bloody good laugh to drive), it's only getting used as a toy. The MG is better at all other 'everyday' driving and is also proper fast.
Thus I'm using the Porker for fun, and for trackdays. As expected the 993 is pretty expensive in terms of trackday running costs, and it seems a shame to relegate it to 'toy' status.
As a result I'm thinking of going for something cheaper that's more focused for trackdays. I used to have a Noble M12 but I'm not getting another one as they're too expensive for what I want now. I'd like to cut car costs overall.
The VX220 Turbo seems just the ticket - reasonably cheap to buy, very cheap to run (in comparison), and presumably fantastic handling.
So should I buy one? I need to store it outside in all weathers (no garage) and I'd like a hardtop for security. Leaky cars piss me off and I'd rather not try to live with something that pisses me off - I'd rather get something I really like to begin with. For this reason, pure trackday cars are out of the question - Caterfields, Atoms, etc. Equally, I may not drive it all week, but I want it to start without drama at the weekend - I don't want something that spends all the time in the garage getting 'fettled'. Basically, I've been spoilt by the Porsche.
I used to have a S1 Elise with a Bell & Colvill 160 kit, this was unusable due to the noise - I suppose it may have been alright with earplugs / ear defenders but I don't want this with the VX. Is the VX quieter in general than a tuned Elise?
Equally is the VX better put together than the Elise? The reason I'm definitely not considering an Elise is because it felt like it was falling apart when I owned one, and I simply don't want a K series engine. The new charged Toyota Elises are far too expensive (Noble money!)
Obviously the VX shares Elise genes, so can someone let me know the difference in 'feel' and use?
It's a 'feel' thing for me - my old Elise felt like a breakdown waiting to happen, whereas the Noble and a Griff 500 I owned felt reliable and dependable. As long as it can be made to not leak! The Griff never leaked, so I don't see why not.
Ideally if there's someone out there who has owned both an Elise and a VX who may be able to answer my questions!
So far the VX seems like the best bet and I love the look of the things, however I'm a bit concerned that it will be too much like an old Elise and I didn't really get on with mine.
Well, obviously drive one and see what you think. 
Right, now that that's out of the way - the VX feels much more substantial than the S1 Elise. It's quieter inside, the roof is much less of a fiddle, and overall it's a nice place to be. VXTs had the option of a "touring pack" which added more sound deadening and carpeted in the interior which keeps it a bit warmer in winter. I really, really wanted an Elise before I bought my VX, but having test driven an S1 I decided I couldn't live with the car day to day. I held off for a while until I'd driven an S2 Elise, but found that almost identical to the S1 in terms of comfort and noise. The VX is more refined, and is often criticised for the lack of a nice loud sporty sounding exhaust. My old NA sounded quite nice from the outside (I thought), but inside was quiet.
Regarding leaks - some do, some don't, but it's quite possible to fix the ones that do so that they're water-tight. With the hard top on there's no excuse for leaks at all - the lid overhangs the windows by a good margin, and keeps things nice and cosy. It makes it quieter inside too, if that's a priority.
If you ask the VX vs Elise question in the Lotus forum, you won't get many replies other than to do a search - it's a question that's often asked, and leads to arguments amongst the faithful.
Dan
Right, now that that's out of the way - the VX feels much more substantial than the S1 Elise. It's quieter inside, the roof is much less of a fiddle, and overall it's a nice place to be. VXTs had the option of a "touring pack" which added more sound deadening and carpeted in the interior which keeps it a bit warmer in winter. I really, really wanted an Elise before I bought my VX, but having test driven an S1 I decided I couldn't live with the car day to day. I held off for a while until I'd driven an S2 Elise, but found that almost identical to the S1 in terms of comfort and noise. The VX is more refined, and is often criticised for the lack of a nice loud sporty sounding exhaust. My old NA sounded quite nice from the outside (I thought), but inside was quiet.
Regarding leaks - some do, some don't, but it's quite possible to fix the ones that do so that they're water-tight. With the hard top on there's no excuse for leaks at all - the lid overhangs the windows by a good margin, and keeps things nice and cosy. It makes it quieter inside too, if that's a priority.
If you ask the VX vs Elise question in the Lotus forum, you won't get many replies other than to do a search - it's a question that's often asked, and leads to arguments amongst the faithful.
Dan
Edited by DanL on Wednesday 8th November 22:45
I'm sorry but I'm going to say don't do it.
Too many of your comments about your old Elise would worry me. Yes the vx is a bit quieter, leaks less, is a bit less rattly..............but only if you know both cars well. To an S1 elise owner a VXT is less raw. To a porsche owner it still seems very raw.
If you are coming back to the lotus / vx fold my fear is that the VX may just seem to encompass everything you didnt like about the Elise.
Drive one just to be sure, but that would be my honest concern.
Too many of your comments about your old Elise would worry me. Yes the vx is a bit quieter, leaks less, is a bit less rattly..............but only if you know both cars well. To an S1 elise owner a VXT is less raw. To a porsche owner it still seems very raw.
If you are coming back to the lotus / vx fold my fear is that the VX may just seem to encompass everything you didnt like about the Elise.
Drive one just to be sure, but that would be my honest concern.
Cheers for the replies - I'm glad it hasn't been given the rolleyes 'go drive it' response as some other forums would... quite obviously I expect it to be good to drive (I'm testing one at the weekend) - what I'm after is info about what it's like to live with. I had that problem with the Elise - it was heaven in a 30 minute test drive blast on B roads, and I'm sure the VX will be as well. However I do have some practicality / usability demands...
Will I be able to jump into the car after a week standing outside, start up and go off for a trackday without the car being full of water, for example? Does the standard blower kit demist the screen, or do I need to leave the car running for 30 minutes to warm up in the winter (not good for me since I have no garage or driveway to do this safely)?
I'm not expecting the car to hit all the same bullseyes as the Porker - after all I don't need it to do everything as I have another car now. Let's put it this way - if it is as reliable and leakproof as my old Griff 500 then I'd be very happy!
Will I be able to jump into the car after a week standing outside, start up and go off for a trackday without the car being full of water, for example? Does the standard blower kit demist the screen, or do I need to leave the car running for 30 minutes to warm up in the winter (not good for me since I have no garage or driveway to do this safely)?
I'm not expecting the car to hit all the same bullseyes as the Porker - after all I don't need it to do everything as I have another car now. Let's put it this way - if it is as reliable and leakproof as my old Griff 500 then I'd be very happy!
Ive done 24k since Jan 05 in my 03 2.2, driven it everyday and it lives outside. I love it and would be hardpushed to change it for anything but it def requires more comittment than many would be prepared to give.
The windows are adjusted for the hardtop so in the winter it doesn't leak at all. In the summer i get a few drips onto the sill from the softtop but its nothing I can't handle.
Reliability wise the oily bits are all astra spec and as such are pretty bullet proof (certianly compared to the K elise)
The heater is rubbish. And demisting can take time but there are things you can do to reduce it (rainx anti-fog, keeping it clean and the various heater mods). However my car replaced an MX5 and being honest i wish the VX had it's ventilation system.
The windows are adjusted for the hardtop so in the winter it doesn't leak at all. In the summer i get a few drips onto the sill from the softtop but its nothing I can't handle.
Reliability wise the oily bits are all astra spec and as such are pretty bullet proof (certianly compared to the K elise)
The heater is rubbish. And demisting can take time but there are things you can do to reduce it (rainx anti-fog, keeping it clean and the various heater mods). However my car replaced an MX5 and being honest i wish the VX had it's ventilation system.
Many thanks - how loud is it in the cockpit when you've got the hardtop on? Presumably the hardtop is lined and insulated (compared to the carbon fibre unlined affair I had on the Elise which resonated like hell)?
Noise per se isn't a problem (my Porker is loud but it's a nice noise) - I couldn't live with the Elise as the K engine sounds like shit and it was painfully loud. It was a tweaked Elise though.
To be honest if the VX is considered 'refined' compared to the Elise then it sounds a good bet - just have to avoid excessive induction kits or loud exhausts (it was the induction kit on my Elise that made the noise unbearable)...
Noise per se isn't a problem (my Porker is loud but it's a nice noise) - I couldn't live with the Elise as the K engine sounds like shit and it was painfully loud. It was a tweaked Elise though.
To be honest if the VX is considered 'refined' compared to the Elise then it sounds a good bet - just have to avoid excessive induction kits or loud exhausts (it was the induction kit on my Elise that made the noise unbearable)...
According to people moving from VX to Lotus (so biased people) , the VX turbo is more "difficult " to drive on track that the standard version regarding turbo lag and power control.
Just the few words I can share from vx drivers. I have no personnal opinion about it.
Good luck and mostly "enjoy".
Just the few words I can share from vx drivers. I have no personnal opinion about it.
Good luck and mostly "enjoy".
Edited by bher on Thursday 9th November 21:12
cyberface said:
Will I be able to jump into the car after a week standing outside, start up and go off for a trackday without the car being full of water, for example? Does the standard blower kit demist the screen, or do I need to leave the car running for 30 minutes to warm up in the winter (not good for me since I have no garage or driveway to do this safely)?
Leaving it standing for a week should be fine, so long as you take it for a reasonable run at weekends (the alarm can drain the battery if it's left parked up and on for more than a couple of weeks). It shouldn't be full of water (esp with a hard top), and if it is the windows can be adjusted to fix it. However, without a hard top on it's cold in the winter regardless of the heater setting, and even with one the heater isn't exactly fierce (more of a warmer, frankly). The one in the VXT is supposed to be better, but the one in my 2.2 wasn't good at clearing the screen. Fiddling with the vent direction can help, but it took a few minutes.
Dan
I'll definitely be considering the Turbo, and I won't be considering a car without a hard top. Given that the Elise leaked even with a hard top, the assurances here that the VX won't leak with a hard top are good to hear!
Are there any overheating issues (presumably not so much of a problem in winter...) with the engine given the repackaging for mid engined cars - my Elise always seemed like it was on the edge of HGF when stuck in traffic jams. I'm hoping the VX is much better in that respect, given the Vauxhall engines are likely to have greater coolant volume than the K series...
Are there any overheating issues (presumably not so much of a problem in winter...) with the engine given the repackaging for mid engined cars - my Elise always seemed like it was on the edge of HGF when stuck in traffic jams. I'm hoping the VX is much better in that respect, given the Vauxhall engines are likely to have greater coolant volume than the K series...
The engines are rock solid but the radiators are a known weak point. They have plastic end caps that fail but you can get 3rd party replacements that are all-aluminium, a popular substitute. I'm guessing this is the same problem on S2 elises.
The expansion tank is exposed to the elements and can go yellow and start breaking apart after a few years if you keep it outside all the time. It can then start leaking coolant. It's £20 for a new one and about 20mins to swap over.
Having them bounce off the radiator fan (at about 106 degC) is unnerving but the engine is fine.
Ben
The expansion tank is exposed to the elements and can go yellow and start breaking apart after a few years if you keep it outside all the time. It can then start leaking coolant. It's £20 for a new one and about 20mins to swap over.
Having them bounce off the radiator fan (at about 106 degC) is unnerving but the engine is fine.
Ben
Test drove one today... bloody hell I'm impressed... nowhere near the crashy thrashy experience the Elise is, and very much more like my old Noble. Comfortable at 90 mph, you can talk to your passenger, it's quick and it handles. The one I tried had the VX sports exhaust and a carbon fibre airbox, but it was remarkably civilised and perfectly acceptable to me.
Only downside was it wasn't raining, so I have no idea of rainproofing or window-steaming.
The Lightning Yellow looks utterly bloody awesome on the car. Absolutely love it
Anyway in true cyberface impulsive fashion I bought it on the spot. Picking it up next Saturday
Only downside was it wasn't raining, so I have no idea of rainproofing or window-steaming.
The Lightning Yellow looks utterly bloody awesome on the car. Absolutely love it
Anyway in true cyberface impulsive fashion I bought it on the spot. Picking it up next Saturday
Joe - I have no idea, it's a bright almost acid yellow, not creamy or pastel shade... I'm a Porsche guy so in terms of Porsche's Speed Yellow it's a lot sharper and lighter. It looks bloody good regardless of whether it's 'Lightning' or not.
If you know the Vauxhall paint name for my car then I'd appreciate being told, I don't want to look like a prick calling my car 'lightning yellow' if that's a special for the cognoscenti
My car allegedly has a 'special' carbon fibre airbox and filter - can't say I noticed any unpleasant induction noise, in fact the car was the model of refinement compared to *any* Elise I've driven - it was up there with my old Noble for refinement. It crashes a bit over potholes but any 930 kg car with aluminium suspension is going to do this, surely...
I've registered 'cyberface' for vx220.org.uk a while back, but never got my validation email. I tried emailing the forum webmaster, have tried re-activating my validation, etc. but nothing works. I am reading on the vx220.org.uk forum, I'm just not allowed to post!!!
If you know the Vauxhall paint name for my car then I'd appreciate being told, I don't want to look like a prick calling my car 'lightning yellow' if that's a special for the cognoscenti
My car allegedly has a 'special' carbon fibre airbox and filter - can't say I noticed any unpleasant induction noise, in fact the car was the model of refinement compared to *any* Elise I've driven - it was up there with my old Noble for refinement. It crashes a bit over potholes but any 930 kg car with aluminium suspension is going to do this, surely...
I've registered 'cyberface' for vx220.org.uk a while back, but never got my validation email. I tried emailing the forum webmaster, have tried re-activating my validation, etc. but nothing works. I am reading on the vx220.org.uk forum, I'm just not allowed to post!!!
I have had my coral blue (www.susi.se/jens/vx220unicc/coral.php)for about 2.5 years now and have read plenty on the forum so will try to clear a few things up.
The lightning yellow was a special edition non-turbo (only 100 made) that had black wheels, black windscreen surround and a color coded hard top thrown in. www.susi.se/jens/vx220unicc/lightning.php (this site says that lightning was availiable on the turbo as well but i did not know this)
I think the colour is most likely to be brilient yellow (www.susi.se/jens/vx220unicc/brilliant.php) but could be wrong.
hmm, sports exhaust, the original "sports exhaust" was a black back box only availiable for the non-turbo. Since the vxr was released , Milltec got involved and have been an aftermarket option for the turbo and non-turbo models (as it was an optional extra for the vxr220. (just check if the exhuast is black, or says milltec/vxr on it)
The air box you are refering to i think is probably the bmc cda, there have been a lot of posts about fitting aftermarket filters due to them blowing the air mass meter, have a look here www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=28859&hl=bmc+cda and here www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=40118&hl=bmc+cda
I think its when they get wet is when the problems arise but again i could be wrong.
are you sure its a turbo you brought lol (big sticking out air intakes and turbo badge on the back
The ride is fine but as you said can be a little crashy over potholes, the turbo has a slightly softer suspension then the n/a so this also helps.
if i remember i will pm thorney regarding your user name and see if they can help you get posting.
this is always a great viewing
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chuck_uk
hope this all helps
Joe
The lightning yellow was a special edition non-turbo (only 100 made) that had black wheels, black windscreen surround and a color coded hard top thrown in. www.susi.se/jens/vx220unicc/lightning.php (this site says that lightning was availiable on the turbo as well but i did not know this)
I think the colour is most likely to be brilient yellow (www.susi.se/jens/vx220unicc/brilliant.php) but could be wrong.
hmm, sports exhaust, the original "sports exhaust" was a black back box only availiable for the non-turbo. Since the vxr was released , Milltec got involved and have been an aftermarket option for the turbo and non-turbo models (as it was an optional extra for the vxr220. (just check if the exhuast is black, or says milltec/vxr on it)
The air box you are refering to i think is probably the bmc cda, there have been a lot of posts about fitting aftermarket filters due to them blowing the air mass meter, have a look here www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=28859&hl=bmc+cda and here www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=40118&hl=bmc+cda
I think its when they get wet is when the problems arise but again i could be wrong.
are you sure its a turbo you brought lol (big sticking out air intakes and turbo badge on the back
The ride is fine but as you said can be a little crashy over potholes, the turbo has a slightly softer suspension then the n/a so this also helps.
if i remember i will pm thorney regarding your user name and see if they can help you get posting.
this is always a great viewing
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chuck_uk
hope this all helps
Joe
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