RE: Ford Shelby Cobra GT500 arives in 2006

[havoc]

blown 5.0 said:

think about it , a 4 cam 32 valve 5.4 with a blower, 450 horsepower is a vast under estimation , a 4 cam 5.4 will make nearly 400 ponies na , 8 or so lbs of boost will add at least 125 to 150 horsepower . i bet it will match a zo7 even with more weight but a pulley swap or other tweaks , cheap power increases , save up for nos or blowers zo7 guys.

Nah, they've got it about right. Remember yank lumps are understressed and usually low-tech, you can't go applying Jap or even Euro bhp/litre to them.

It'll still be enough to tear tarmac from a standing start though!

[blown 5.0]

sorry bud but a 4cam 32 valve blown motor in a GT makes 550 , Ford rate it over 450 , it will run 8.5 psi of boost pretty close to a GT so i would say an easy 500 to 530 in its sleep .It aint no single cam push rod motor , but even if it was a zo7 makes 500 ponies n/a , i think the american low rev low tech motors are a thing of the past and have been for a long time , they aint no 200hp 6.6 emission controlled Trans ams .

[peter450]

american engines dont historically an still dont pack much hp per litre but who cares 450 is good in any book so what if it take 5 litres an supercharge or 7 litres na if it makes the power an sounds right what dif does it make how the metal moves about under the bonnet

[R988]

Historically haven't US manufacturers been deliberately understating power figures? Most of the old Muscle cars back in the '60s and eary '70s made a bit more power than they let on.

[havoc]

peter450 said:

american engines dont historically an still dont pack much hp per litre but who cares 450 is good in any book so what if it take 5 litres an supercharge or 7 litres na if it makes the power an sounds right what dif does it make how the metal moves about under the bonnet

Which I think was the point I trying to make, blown 5.0!

There are many ways an otherwise "similar" engine can be restriced down by 10-20%...induction profile, induction diameter, induction filter material, exhaust manifold profile, exhaust diameter, exhaust restrictor (choke) points, different compression ratio, different timing and fuelling...

The fact that the same basic lump is used in the Shelby as in the GT is not that relevant...and Ford may well have decided for marketing reasons that giving the "top" Mustang 500 or more would have compromised the profile/reputation of the GT, as it would have been too close. Or the transmission in the Shelby may be different and they wanted to keep wear down.

As Peter said though, 450 in a car like that is MORE than enough...the RS4 just released is making do with 414, and I'll bet the RS4 is heavier.
Personally I like the new Mustang...if they released it over here I WOULD try one out.


As for US engines in general, they are NOT as technologically advanced as Jap and Euro, which is a legacy of fuel prices and market necessity...the Jap and Euro markets needed more fuel efficiency more quickly, so the incentive was there to use turbos, make efficient high-revving multi-valves, then to introduce variable valve timing, then variable cam timing, and now direct injection.
So the Euro and jap mfrs have for a while got more power out of smaller engines, because smaller engines are inherently more economical at cruise (hence why US D-O-D systems appearing), and to get the same power, you can rev a smaller (less-torquey) engine higher...hey presto - better fuel economy at cruise and same headline power at top-end!
(But the downside, unless using FI, is the need to change gear more to access the power)

As an example, name me one US unmodded powerplant that gets close to 100bhp/litre Normally Aspirated?
(Honda, Toyota, BMW, Porsche all have exceeded this).

Also, how many can hit 100bhp/litre through Forced Induction?
(Add VAG, Ford of Europe, Vauxhall, Mitsi (200bhp/litre), Subaru (150bhp/litre), Nissan, Mercedes, just off the top of my head)

[American Muscle]

You're close the motor in the mustang is the iron version of the Ford GT motor. Or the same block as in the navigator which makes just over 300 horsepower stock. It made, as the article states, 390 or so horses naturally aspirated in the Mustang Cobra R in 2000. However, remember the GT is a mid-engined car and therefore doesn't have to move exhaust as far etc. The mustang motor probably also has highly restrictive cast manifolds on it. I saw a Ford GT at the local auto show it was amazing. I wonder if this new motor would upset the new Mustangs terrific handling by placing more weight on the front wheels. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

[BrianTheYank]

Great car but the new body style looks crap in the flesh IMHO.

[blown 5.0]

i know it must be a marketing figure not to take the thunder away from the Ford GT ,and if its a restriction issue i bet a chip will soon do away with that , if it is 450 which Ford say over 450 a few hundred dollars and 550 plus horsepower for $40,000 will put european manufactures to shame as bang for buck you cant beat a yank muscle car.I also love single cam 16 valve v8s like the z07 because when you make 500 n/a horsepower who gives a damn about technology cos you could still wack a power adder to that , no doubt vortech and paxton have that covered already ,and to take an old push rod small block and a dust bin turbo ect ect and make over 2000 horsepower with an engine configuration design dating back to the 50s is neat.

[American Muscle]

What are you talking about it looks like crap? The Shelby or the new mustang all together. I will agree the roof is a bit off and the mirrors look like they belong on a minivan but it brings back an era that is loved at least in America. To see a Shelby is a noteworthy event and any musclecar rusty or not is highly desireable. Nothing quite like that rumble. This brings the look of the classics without the wheels hopping when you let off the clutch, the brakes fading to uselessness after one stop, and oh yeah the inability to turn. Ford has done a good job hopefully the new born musclecars are here to stay.

[blown 5.0]

new muscle is better than ever, including chryslers srt8 , if you dont like them you have got no soul.

[BrianTheYank]

American Muscle said:

it brings back an era that is loved at least in America.

Not by this american..
I see one of the new mustangs everyday as one is parked next to my brothers car everyday after school, and honestly, its boring, bland, and another boring american play-do creation. People need to stop this "bring back the classics" nonsense. You cant hang in the past if you wanna go forward in the future. If you want a blast from the past go do a restoration on a real american hotrod.

[blown 5.0]

i guess you see a lot of those ,there are only so many modern shapes that you can have before they all look the same , a classic Mustang retro is a unique automobile that Ford had the balls to reproduce it will always be Fords flag ship ,what better way to bring back the GT500 with a least 500 horsepower dispite the difference of opinion on this one .People want power looks and a car that does what it should do that can be used every day and not for a rip off price.

[havoc]

blown 5.0 said:

If its a restriction issue i bet a chip will soon do away with that , if it is 450 which Ford say over 450 a few hundred dollars and 550 plus horsepower for $40,000

Unlikely...removing restrictions usually involves reprofiling the breathing...induction or exhaust...and isn't always cheap.

But yeah, you can bolt a cheap chip on, up the boost, and watch the engine break after <50,000miles!!!

blown 5.0 said:

will put european manufactures to shame as bang for buck you cant beat a yank muscle car.

True, can't argue...simple supply-and-demand mean they'll be cheaper.
BUT...they're LHD only, they've simpler suspension which doesn't really cope in the UK, and they're not set up to corner particularly well...the C6 and the Ford GT being probably the only exceptions. Oh, and the interiors look a lot cheaper.

blown 5.0 said:

I also love single cam 16 valve v8s like the z07 because when you make 500 n/a horsepower who gives a damn about technology

Erm...there's this little thing called weight...a small-block V8 isn't the lightest of engines. But I'm not going to argue, the small-block IS one of the great automotive engines, simply for longevity and flexibility, tech or not. And it's cheaper than the Euro/Jap exotic powerplants. You've picked the one Yank engine I don't want to fault!!!

blown 5.0 said:

cos you could still wack a power adder to that , no doubt vortech and paxton have that covered already ,and to take an old push rod small block and a dust bin turbo ect ect and make over 2000 horsepower with an engine configuration design dating back to the 50s is neat.

2000bhp?!? On Nitro-methane perhaps, and with a rebuild after every 1/4-mile. But not as a usable engine...not aware even of any REAL 1000bhp engines which are genuinely usable...even the Norris Evo blew up. Going to have to dispute that point.

[blown 5.0]

no not every day engines but 2000 hp small blocks Fords are alive and well in pro 5.0 or outlaw 10.5 , dont last that long but race fuel 100 mm turbos 215 mph in a tick over 6 seconds , a figure not obtainable with a small jap unit.aint no substitue for cubic inches and thats coming from an Englishman.03 and 04 Cobra motors are happy with boost and chips , Ford put the right bits in them from the factory and left it up to you.Hell my stock 5.0 short block lasted a novi 2000 and all the abuse i could throw at it for 4 years and that wasnt built , tune it safe , pull out the timing under boost cos with 5 litres and a blower it dont need to be on the limit

[havoc]

Fair points.

I've always been a big fan of Jap cars...I like small, agile and high-revving. V8 "burble" is fantastic...but a V8 car is usually less "chuckable" (Well, there's this little thing called a Westfield... ), and I'm still a hooligan at heart!!!

Oh - I'm also a technophile...a variable cam engine with oval-profile valve-springs, titanium con-rods, polished ports etc. (straight out of the factory!!!) is my daily drive...in fact this morning I beat my record for the drive to Gaydon...you've gotta love the Fosse Way on a Bank Holiday!

[ultimasimon]

havoc said:

blown 5.0 said: If its a restriction issue i bet a chip will soon do away with that , if it is 450 which Ford say over 450 a few hundred dollars and 550 plus horsepower for $40,000 Unlikely...removing restrictions usually involves reprofiling the breathing...induction or exhaust...and isn't always cheap. But yeah, you can bolt a cheap chip on, up the boost, and watch the engine break after <50,000miles!!! blown 5.0 said: will put european manufactures to shame as bang for buck you cant beat a yank muscle car. True, can't argue...simple supply-and-demand mean they'll be cheaper. BUT...they're LHD only, they've simpler suspension which doesn't really cope in the UK, and they're not set up to corner particularly well...the C6 and the Ford GT being probably the only exceptions. Oh, and the interiors look a lot cheaper. blown 5.0 said: I also love single cam 16 valve v8s like the z07 because when you make 500 n/a horsepower who gives a damn about technology Erm...there's this little thing called weight...a small-block V8 isn't the lightest of engines. But I'm not going to argue, the small-block IS one of the great automotive engines, simply for longevity and flexibility, tech or not. And it's cheaper than the Euro/Jap exotic powerplants. You've picked the one Yank engine I don't want to fault!!! blown 5.0 said: cos you could still wack a power adder to that , no doubt vortech and paxton have that covered already ,and to take an old push rod small block and a dust bin turbo ect ect and make over 2000 horsepower with an engine configuration design dating back to the 50s is neat. 2000bhp?!? On Nitro-methane perhaps, and with a rebuild after every 1/4-mile. But not as a usable engine...not aware even of any REAL 1000bhp engines which are genuinely usable...even the Norris Evo blew up. Going to have to dispute that point.

Sorry havoc but on this occasion your talkin out of your ar$e. Nelson Racing build chevy engines that run on pump gas and produce upto 3000 hp. You can have 1200hp for £12k. You mention about 'real' 1000hp cars and then say even the Evo blew up. Not suprised, so substitute for cc's as they say and these little gems of Jap engines are fast approaching their theroretical limits, given their displacement. The yanks have been churning serious power out of those V's since way before everyone else was. Parts are cheap and plentiful so there's always someone experimenting and doing it better and cheaper.

50,000 miles before a rebuild? Whats the problem with that? Most boring saloons would require a freshen up at that mileage, and in all honesty very few petrolheads keep one car for 50k miles. The market is changing so rapidly there is always somethin new and exciting to try.

My normaly aspirated small block chevy makes over 500hp and will be good for about 10k miles before it needs a freshen up. For the money involved thats negligible compared to rebuilding a Japanese or German mill.

As for the comment about American cars having softer handling, this is normally the case but you can always modify that can't you? It is horses for courses. My mate lent me a Lotus Exige and I have to admit I thought it was the best handling car I had ever driven. However I found it very dissapointing onpower delivery (hear me out Exige owners!) because after being used to 500hp and 500ft/lb of torque there was something missing. I guess its whatever floats your boat.

Serious power is coming, from all manufacturers, and 1000hp is fast becoming the 'normal' benchmark for supercars and modded cars (and over here I think we have the Skyline to thank for that).

Simon

[mrkipling]

Bit more info for you guys. The Shelby will be shown in its final production guise at the Detroit show in January (wheels are likely to 18 inch instead of 19 & other detail changes) It will go on sale June /July '06 & preference is to be given to owners of current SVT products.

I want one too!!!

[blown 5.0]

nice ultima , bet you have fun with that ,great power to weight ratio to . bet you dont need any boost on that thing , have you ever run it at the strip or is it a street terror.ecus and fuel injection make mad horsepower possible on pump or mild race fuel these days ,im just glad the car manufactures are joining in the horsepower race.

[mikef]

mrkipling said:

preference is to be given to owners of current SVT products

That would be me then. Where do I sign?

[03COBRA]

[quote]Phase90 Why don't they call it a GT450? Or give it 500 HP to better match it's name.[quote]

It will most likely have 500hp. It says it has over 450hp but is still detuned from the 550hp of the GT so it should have around 500 like the Vette.

By the way Whats up guys, newb here.