From Z06 to Mustang
Discussion
I know there are a couple of you out there who have made this move. I'm looking at a blown (to 425bhp via Roush) Mustang, and wondered how you rate it compared to the Z06.
I love my Vette, and would dearly like to keep it, but the lack of rear seats has pushed me into looking at something that has the same performance but with a little extra room. I can't think of anything else out there that compares to either of these two cars (for any money; you can keep your Aston Martins, BMWs, TVRs).
So, what do you think? A good move, or will I be left wanting?
And if anyone fancies making me an offer, the Z'll probably be in the classifieds in a day or two if you don't talk me out of it.
I love my Vette, and would dearly like to keep it, but the lack of rear seats has pushed me into looking at something that has the same performance but with a little extra room. I can't think of anything else out there that compares to either of these two cars (for any money; you can keep your Aston Martins, BMWs, TVRs).
So, what do you think? A good move, or will I be left wanting?
And if anyone fancies making me an offer, the Z'll probably be in the classifieds in a day or two if you don't talk me out of it.
The move from Z06 to Mustang is not one to be made without the appropriate modifications. Of course you'll need the blower but even the 462hp Vortech only gives a slightly better power to weight ratio than the Z06 and at 370lb.ft torque, it's still 30lb.ft down on the Corvette. Much will depend on the type of blower you fit. A screw type blower will give more torque but less ultimate power.
The stock Mustang GT is a bit soft in roll. Much of this is to do with the tall tyres which at 235/55 have a lot of sidewall flex and that's one area where improvement is required. Secondly, you do need to replace the suspension because the stock suspension is so soft that when you accelerate and brake, the nose comes up like a speedboat and dips like a hot rod on braking. This is bad for composure and for throwing weight onto the front brakes. I recommend Tokico adjustable D-Spec dampers like mine because most of the tuners use them over their own uprated shocks. Enough said...
Lowering springs are needed to drop the car at least an inch as well as this will give you less roll and usually a progressive spring. The only thing I haven't done on my car (yet...????) is uprate the sway bars. The stock bars are hollow front and solid rear. Upgrading usually means adding weight to the front by way of a solid bar. These would limit roll a little more although I find mine perfectly acceptable but a bigger rear bar may lead to more savage lift-off oversteer.
If I can refer you to EVO's Performance Car Of The Year, they used a Roush 420RE in the test. This used all of Roush UK's suspension kit - dampers, springs and including the sway bars. This car used the Roushcharger which is a screw type blower producing 420hp. It was rated 2nd behind the M3 and above the 350Z for handling prowess and they dismissed the Corvette C6 which languished back in 10th place (of 10). They also noted that driving fast roads, it was the Mustang that inspired the confidence to drive fast and it was the C6 that felt agitated like it had a live axle. This really demonstrates that a well set-up Mustang is a potent tool and hy the FR500-C is wiping the race-tracks with the European opposition.
Now onto personal experience. For me, the C5 Z06 was a very rapid car spoilt by it's gearbox. It was certainly quick but not even a short throw shifter really cured the basic slowness of the box. Approaching roundabouts and coming down through the box was never a fluid experience but it certainly flew off the roundabouts and had a pleasantly gruff engine note. The single most decisive advantage the Z06 has over the Mustang is it's brakes. They're awesome. The Mustang's brakes will fade if used to abuse.
The Mustang, in my opinion, is just as fast as my Z06 but the driving position is less special, more saloon coupe than exotic. The view out is less special as you see a big bonnet. I am actually more confident flinging the Mustang about than the Corvette and that driving position allows you to see more of the car and where to place it. On a recent PH run into the hills of Wales, the car was perfectly at home on rain-soaked dual carriageway cruising at high speeds and deploying it's arsenal of horses effectively against Porsches, maseratis and TVRs. When the roads narrowed to undulating hilly roads, the car never really set a foot wrong, the back end never slipped and the traction control never cut in. It was able to keep pace with a hard-driven Elise through such terrain and was well within it's comfort zone. Never once did I wish I had a different car, not even a Z06.
Of course, ultimately, physics will prevail and a Z06 will be faster round a track than the Mustang, mainly because of the Mustang's brakes which I would change had my choice of wheels not precluded that course. However, on a fast road, they're pretty evenly pitched but the Mustang inspires probably more confidence at the limit.The gearbox is much better than the Z06.
Modifications on the Mustang are easy. The whole car has been constructed like a Lego kit and nothing is difficult.
The parts aren't expensive either and buying a slightly used Mustang with a chunk of the depreciation done offsets the modification costs. I would certainly avoid the Shelby GT500 which weighs 470lbs more than a GT.
For information, the modifications to mine are as follows:
462hp HO Vortech blower
Strut Brace and lower A-arm brace (but the S197 chassis is very stiff and this is probably overkill)
Tokico D-Spec adjustable dampers all round
Roush springs
Metco billet control arms
20" wheels - 9.5" front and 10.5" rear (stock are 17 x 8)
275/35 Dunlop Sportmaxx tyres all round.
In conclusion, a stock Mustang GT is better than the last 4th gen Camaro Z28 but similarly sits too high and has soft suspension. 300hp gets you along just fine. A blown modified Mustang GT will equal the C5 Z06 in 99% of situations although being naturally aspirated, larger capacity and better braking, I would say the Z06 is a bit better for overtaking, at least compared to a centrifugally blown Mustang which operates in a similar fashion to a turbo - stock low down and mental at the top end. I imagine a screw-driven blower might be better in this respect (it wasn't in the GT500's case but then it was carting a lot of weight).
Hope this helps.
The stock Mustang GT is a bit soft in roll. Much of this is to do with the tall tyres which at 235/55 have a lot of sidewall flex and that's one area where improvement is required. Secondly, you do need to replace the suspension because the stock suspension is so soft that when you accelerate and brake, the nose comes up like a speedboat and dips like a hot rod on braking. This is bad for composure and for throwing weight onto the front brakes. I recommend Tokico adjustable D-Spec dampers like mine because most of the tuners use them over their own uprated shocks. Enough said...
Lowering springs are needed to drop the car at least an inch as well as this will give you less roll and usually a progressive spring. The only thing I haven't done on my car (yet...????) is uprate the sway bars. The stock bars are hollow front and solid rear. Upgrading usually means adding weight to the front by way of a solid bar. These would limit roll a little more although I find mine perfectly acceptable but a bigger rear bar may lead to more savage lift-off oversteer.
If I can refer you to EVO's Performance Car Of The Year, they used a Roush 420RE in the test. This used all of Roush UK's suspension kit - dampers, springs and including the sway bars. This car used the Roushcharger which is a screw type blower producing 420hp. It was rated 2nd behind the M3 and above the 350Z for handling prowess and they dismissed the Corvette C6 which languished back in 10th place (of 10). They also noted that driving fast roads, it was the Mustang that inspired the confidence to drive fast and it was the C6 that felt agitated like it had a live axle. This really demonstrates that a well set-up Mustang is a potent tool and hy the FR500-C is wiping the race-tracks with the European opposition.
Now onto personal experience. For me, the C5 Z06 was a very rapid car spoilt by it's gearbox. It was certainly quick but not even a short throw shifter really cured the basic slowness of the box. Approaching roundabouts and coming down through the box was never a fluid experience but it certainly flew off the roundabouts and had a pleasantly gruff engine note. The single most decisive advantage the Z06 has over the Mustang is it's brakes. They're awesome. The Mustang's brakes will fade if used to abuse.
The Mustang, in my opinion, is just as fast as my Z06 but the driving position is less special, more saloon coupe than exotic. The view out is less special as you see a big bonnet. I am actually more confident flinging the Mustang about than the Corvette and that driving position allows you to see more of the car and where to place it. On a recent PH run into the hills of Wales, the car was perfectly at home on rain-soaked dual carriageway cruising at high speeds and deploying it's arsenal of horses effectively against Porsches, maseratis and TVRs. When the roads narrowed to undulating hilly roads, the car never really set a foot wrong, the back end never slipped and the traction control never cut in. It was able to keep pace with a hard-driven Elise through such terrain and was well within it's comfort zone. Never once did I wish I had a different car, not even a Z06.
Of course, ultimately, physics will prevail and a Z06 will be faster round a track than the Mustang, mainly because of the Mustang's brakes which I would change had my choice of wheels not precluded that course. However, on a fast road, they're pretty evenly pitched but the Mustang inspires probably more confidence at the limit.The gearbox is much better than the Z06.
Modifications on the Mustang are easy. The whole car has been constructed like a Lego kit and nothing is difficult.
The parts aren't expensive either and buying a slightly used Mustang with a chunk of the depreciation done offsets the modification costs. I would certainly avoid the Shelby GT500 which weighs 470lbs more than a GT.
For information, the modifications to mine are as follows:
462hp HO Vortech blower
Strut Brace and lower A-arm brace (but the S197 chassis is very stiff and this is probably overkill)
Tokico D-Spec adjustable dampers all round
Roush springs
Metco billet control arms
20" wheels - 9.5" front and 10.5" rear (stock are 17 x 8)
275/35 Dunlop Sportmaxx tyres all round.
In conclusion, a stock Mustang GT is better than the last 4th gen Camaro Z28 but similarly sits too high and has soft suspension. 300hp gets you along just fine. A blown modified Mustang GT will equal the C5 Z06 in 99% of situations although being naturally aspirated, larger capacity and better braking, I would say the Z06 is a bit better for overtaking, at least compared to a centrifugally blown Mustang which operates in a similar fashion to a turbo - stock low down and mental at the top end. I imagine a screw-driven blower might be better in this respect (it wasn't in the GT500's case but then it was carting a lot of weight).
Hope this helps.
adetuono said:
Jeez LuSIfer, that reply must have taken an age to type up. I'm almost tempted to send you a cheque for your time. Looks like the change may well be on then. OK if I PM you? I've got a couple of questions you may be able to help me with, if you don't mind.
Not a problem, mate, always glad to help anyone into a truly satisfying car ownership experience. Your main dilemma will be the choice of blower. There are two choices if you want a UK warranty - Roush and Vortech. Importing your own brings a whole world of choice but you have to get it fitted. I think on the Mustang Owners Club forum, there ae now 4 blown Stangs and I don't think any of them use the same blower.
Well I did it. Picked up my Roush-charged Mustang from Atlantic this morning. Had a 130-mile drive on M25/M3/M27 in the pi$$ing rain, so a bit early to say what it's like.
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Edited by Adetuono on Friday 24th November 18:42
I think most go for the Eibach Sport kit. The Eibach Pro may be a bit too radical and may affect the front geometry to a greater degree. I'm more than happy with the Roush springs and I haven't had any issues with them since fitting them.
I assume your new car has stock shocks. If so, you'll soon tire of the nose up nose down accelerating and braking. Then I'd recommend the Tokico D-Spec shocks front and rear because most of the serious tuners use them. Mine are great and don't ruin the ride. Basically they have 5 settins where 1 is stiff and 5 is soft. Mine is on 4 and I haven't felt the need to stiffen it up and it's great for UK roads. Some of the American stuff is designed for smooth tarmac and may give you a hard ride. At least with the Tokicos, even if you never adjust them, you have the option.
I assume your new car has stock shocks. If so, you'll soon tire of the nose up nose down accelerating and braking. Then I'd recommend the Tokico D-Spec shocks front and rear because most of the serious tuners use them. Mine are great and don't ruin the ride. Basically they have 5 settins where 1 is stiff and 5 is soft. Mine is on 4 and I haven't felt the need to stiffen it up and it's great for UK roads. Some of the American stuff is designed for smooth tarmac and may give you a hard ride. At least with the Tokicos, even if you never adjust them, you have the option.
Adetuono said:
Well I did it. Picked up my Roush-charged Mustang from Atlantic this morning. Had a 130-mile drive on M25/M3/M27 in the pi$$ing rain, so a bit early to say what it's like.
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Edited by Adetuono on Friday 24th November 18:42
Sounds like you are down in my neck of the woods. Is there any Mustang meets in the area?
smele said:
Adetuono said:
Well I did it. Picked up my Roush-charged Mustang from Atlantic this morning. Had a 130-mile drive on M25/M3/M27 in the pi$$ing rain, so a bit early to say what it's like.
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Edited by Adetuono on Friday 24th November 18:42
Sounds like you are down in my neck of the woods. Is there any Mustang meets in the area?
What? Tokyo? Or haven't you updated your profile?
adetuono said:
smele said:
Adetuono said:
Well I did it. Picked up my Roush-charged Mustang from Atlantic this morning. Had a 130-mile drive on M25/M3/M27 in the pi$$ing rain, so a bit early to say what it's like.
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Thanks to LuS1fer for his advice and guidance, and to James at Atlantic for a smooth transaction.
I'm sure there'll be more questions in the coming weeks, but for starters, I've got to lower the rear end by a couple of inches to drop it over the 20" rims. Any preferences amongst those of you who've already done this?
Edited by Adetuono on Friday 24th November 18:42
Sounds like you are down in my neck of the woods. Is there any Mustang meets in the area?
What? Tokyo? Or haven't you updated your profile?
Oops, at the moment it is Southampton.
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