The Last of Us. Part 2
Discussion
towser said:
kuro said:
Finished it last night. Personally I thought it was a fantastic game.
Same here......now that I don't need to avoid spoilers I've been watching a few reviews and wonder if people have been playing the same game. It seems like a wall of negativity and criticism.The videos on the hidden details were interesting. A lot of things you completely miss when playing it through.
Kessler said:
Last of Us was arguably the best PS3 game and had a huge following - people feel passionately about the characters and the story so what ND did to Joel would of course create a stir. But to the point where people refuse to play the game and make a conclusion based on the leak is really narrow-minded and stupid. In regards to the WOKE/social justice warrior (SJW) elements of the game - yep, they are definitely there. Usually that puts me off, but the gameplay and design is of such a high quality that it doesn't distract too much. The PS4 definitely went out on a high note.
Are you saying he DIDN’T get killed?The “conclusion” is in the leaks. I don’t know why it is so hard to grasp that there are people who don’t want to play a game that asks you to play as the character that killed him for several hours, after that event occurs. If you’re going to tell me the leaks are inaccurate on that front then I might agree with your point, but it sounds as if you’re saying that people who feel like that don’t have a valid opinion or a right to be upset to the point of not wanting to play it at all.
Not wanting to participate in a story you don’t like isn’t the same as saying the game objectively sucks, any more than saying it is brilliant and if you disagree you’re narrow-minded or a bigot is a valid opinion.
Durzel said:
Kessler said:
Last of Us was arguably the best PS3 game and had a huge following - people feel passionately about the characters and the story so what ND did to Joel would of course create a stir. But to the point where people refuse to play the game and make a conclusion based on the leak is really narrow-minded and stupid. In regards to the WOKE/social justice warrior (SJW) elements of the game - yep, they are definitely there. Usually that puts me off, but the gameplay and design is of such a high quality that it doesn't distract too much. The PS4 definitely went out on a high note.
Are you saying he DIDN’T get killed?The “conclusion” is in the leaks. I don’t know why it is so hard to grasp that there are people who don’t want to play a game that asks you to play as the character that killed him for several hours, after that event occurs. If you’re going to tell me the leaks are inaccurate on that front then I might agree with your point, but it sounds as if you’re saying that people who feel like that don’t have a valid opinion or a right to be upset to the point of not wanting to play it at all.
Not wanting to participate in a story you don’t like isn’t the same as saying the game objectively sucks, any more than saying it is brilliant and if you disagree you’re narrow-minded or a bigot is a valid opinion.
Only 5ish hours in and I think it's brilliant so far, I still regard the first as one of the best games I've ever played and have played through it multiple times, it looks incredible and they have addressed the few clunky control issues that the first game had and thankfully got rid of the shiv's. I have no issue with what happens to Joel, he was selfish and brutal in his actions and its good to see a story where actions have concequences.
I do love The Last of Us Part I, maybe this is one of my favourites...but can't play Part II after watching the first trailer. Watched a bit a walkthrough by one blogger, and this was enough. Unfortunately. I can't say "this part killed the game", it has powerful characters and an interesting plot. But it's not really my cup of tea.
The controversy continues. After the review bombing on Metacritic it turns out 47% of the positive reviews were fake. Irrefutable proof!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH4Or3V16g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH4Or3V16g
rolex said:
The controversy continues. After the review bombing on Metacritic it turns out 47% of the positive reviews were fake. Irrefutable proof!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH4Or3V16g
Turned out to be misinterpreted / bad data. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjH4Or3V16g
Well, who gives a f
k about metacritic
It's a fantastic game... Everyone who's actually bought it and finished it on this thread enjoyed it
Why is everyone so hung up on what some bellends on the internet think that probably didn't even play it, or have some bizarre agenda because they are unhealthily overinvested in certain characters, IMHO, those people need to get a fking life and would always have been disappointed because they've had a fixed ideology of what they wanted from the second game since finishing the first.
k about metacritic It's a fantastic game... Everyone who's actually bought it and finished it on this thread enjoyed it
Why is everyone so hung up on what some bellends on the internet think that probably didn't even play it, or have some bizarre agenda because they are unhealthily overinvested in certain characters, IMHO, those people need to get a f
king life and would always have been disappointed because they've had a fixed ideology of what they wanted from the second game since finishing the first.Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 11th July 08:13
Been playing about 2 weeks now. Was gutted when the surprise ‘change’ happened half way through, but not too bothered after a few hours into that part.
Is it really necessary to have so many ‘look at this bit’ parts which are entirely linear walking around zoo/ aquarium etc? Not skippable and as an oldie (with no time) it’s eating into the quality parts of the game which is a shame.
Otherwise, it’s been ace and the game play/ fight scenes accuracy has been awesome.
Is it really necessary to have so many ‘look at this bit’ parts which are entirely linear walking around zoo/ aquarium etc? Not skippable and as an oldie (with no time) it’s eating into the quality parts of the game which is a shame.
Otherwise, it’s been ace and the game play/ fight scenes accuracy has been awesome.
Finished it over the weekend. Loved the first one, really invested in the characters and the world, thought it was a brilliant game that I was fortunate enough to play blind (as in, I'd never even heard of it, a trusted friend just said "get it, you'll enjoy it")
As soon as the sequel was announced, other than the trailer with Ellie playing the guitar, I avoided any more information about it, in fact it came as a surprise when it was coming up for release, as I'd avoided any news.
Anyway, I felt as a game, it was an improvement on the first one, the gameplay felt more polished, the level of detail and obvious 'love' that had been put in to the gameplay, the environment, it is a fantastic piece of work.
The story I felt was ever so slightly weaker simply in terms of it felt mostly like playing as a solo protaganist, so personally I missed the pair relationship growth that came from the first game, but naturally the story didn't really have room for doing a rehash of the first game for the sake of keeping fans happy.
It's interesting to me that people are so unhappy when something doesn't go the way they wanted it in a story. It is a story, you don't have any say in it, and personally given the nature of the world in TLOU, wrapping everything up in a neat little Hollywood package would have felt like patronising tripe, I'm happy to be treated like an adult and not just spoon fed easily digestible platitudes so that it doesn't hurt my feelings.
Yes, I hated Abby because I was so invested in Ellie and Joel. I didn't want to play as her and my sense of loyalty to Ellie did not change through the story. That was entirely emotional though, and obviously I am perfectly happy to accept that Abby had motivations, her actions were just as justified as Ellie's were, and the gameplay and her story were still interesting and well told and as a character she is an interesting one.
I didn't feel there was some sort of agenda being pushed, yes it was arguably a statistically unlikely mix of character types to form the leads, but so what?
Also the complaint earlier that effectively "back in my day the baddie was the baddie and that was that" and how it's presumably a reflection of "we're teaching children that you're not a bad person, you just make bad chocies" as if that's some sort of ridiculous woke notion? If you honestly think what you perceive as bad people are just 'evil' then you're frankly a simpleton, the idea humans do things without motivations and just "because they're bad" is the sort of basic fairy tale nonsense we should help children grow out of, empathising with someone else's motivations is a useful thing in understanding your fellow human, even if you don't like their justications. As guess what? They probably don't like yours, and just because yours are in your head doesn't guarantee they're right, they're just what you've concluded based on your experiences, same as the other person.
Anyway, personally, excellent game. I only ever played the first one once, but I'm quite tempted to play this one through again, I think the gameplay stands up well on its own even without what was, to me, an exceptionally well told story.
As soon as the sequel was announced, other than the trailer with Ellie playing the guitar, I avoided any more information about it, in fact it came as a surprise when it was coming up for release, as I'd avoided any news.
Anyway, I felt as a game, it was an improvement on the first one, the gameplay felt more polished, the level of detail and obvious 'love' that had been put in to the gameplay, the environment, it is a fantastic piece of work.
The story I felt was ever so slightly weaker simply in terms of it felt mostly like playing as a solo protaganist, so personally I missed the pair relationship growth that came from the first game, but naturally the story didn't really have room for doing a rehash of the first game for the sake of keeping fans happy.
It's interesting to me that people are so unhappy when something doesn't go the way they wanted it in a story. It is a story, you don't have any say in it, and personally given the nature of the world in TLOU, wrapping everything up in a neat little Hollywood package would have felt like patronising tripe, I'm happy to be treated like an adult and not just spoon fed easily digestible platitudes so that it doesn't hurt my feelings.
Yes, I hated Abby because I was so invested in Ellie and Joel. I didn't want to play as her and my sense of loyalty to Ellie did not change through the story. That was entirely emotional though, and obviously I am perfectly happy to accept that Abby had motivations, her actions were just as justified as Ellie's were, and the gameplay and her story were still interesting and well told and as a character she is an interesting one.
I didn't feel there was some sort of agenda being pushed, yes it was arguably a statistically unlikely mix of character types to form the leads, but so what?
Also the complaint earlier that effectively "back in my day the baddie was the baddie and that was that" and how it's presumably a reflection of "we're teaching children that you're not a bad person, you just make bad chocies" as if that's some sort of ridiculous woke notion? If you honestly think what you perceive as bad people are just 'evil' then you're frankly a simpleton, the idea humans do things without motivations and just "because they're bad" is the sort of basic fairy tale nonsense we should help children grow out of, empathising with someone else's motivations is a useful thing in understanding your fellow human, even if you don't like their justications. As guess what? They probably don't like yours, and just because yours are in your head doesn't guarantee they're right, they're just what you've concluded based on your experiences, same as the other person.
Anyway, personally, excellent game. I only ever played the first one once, but I'm quite tempted to play this one through again, I think the gameplay stands up well on its own even without what was, to me, an exceptionally well told story.
I don't think it's particularly surprising or interesting that people have visceral reactions to things they love that that go in a direction they don't want. If anything it speaks to the brilliance of TLOU1 that people feel this strongly it and in particular the partnership of Ellie and Joel.
That being said, it doesn't excuse the behaviour from some, nor does it excuse rating it at 1 out of 10 sight unseen, or after a short period playing it. By the same token, however, it doesn't legitimise rating it 10/10 as some kind of "counter balance to the alt right" or whatever. It seems like everything nowadays has to be a battleground.
I saw the leaks and was really disappointed in the key story beat. Druckmann's reaction on Twitter has cemented the fact that, to me, he set out for this game to be a social commentary first and sequel second. I knew that I wouldn't want to play as that character after that event, and wouldn't enjoy that experience, so it was my choice to opt out.
Mostly though I think Druckmann has been rather immature on Twitter. Bigots should be called out wherever they appear, but there is a great number of people who are just really sad that the story went in the direction it did and being so openly dismissive of them, or worse - miscategorising them as bigots or homophobes, disregarding how well all of the previous games and DLC were received with those elements - does an injustice to both sides.
That being said, it doesn't excuse the behaviour from some, nor does it excuse rating it at 1 out of 10 sight unseen, or after a short period playing it. By the same token, however, it doesn't legitimise rating it 10/10 as some kind of "counter balance to the alt right" or whatever. It seems like everything nowadays has to be a battleground.
I saw the leaks and was really disappointed in the key story beat. Druckmann's reaction on Twitter has cemented the fact that, to me, he set out for this game to be a social commentary first and sequel second. I knew that I wouldn't want to play as that character after that event, and wouldn't enjoy that experience, so it was my choice to opt out.
Mostly though I think Druckmann has been rather immature on Twitter. Bigots should be called out wherever they appear, but there is a great number of people who are just really sad that the story went in the direction it did and being so openly dismissive of them, or worse - miscategorising them as bigots or homophobes, disregarding how well all of the previous games and DLC were received with those elements - does an injustice to both sides.
^perfectly said imo; feel completely the same way. Currently halfway through my second play through on new game+ and having a blast - really impressed at how fluid some of the combat sections and how satisfying it is stealthing everything.
ETA my arrow was pointing to SturdyHSV’s post
ETA my arrow was pointing to SturdyHSV’s post
Edited by parabolica on Monday 13th July 14:35
Durzel said:
I saw the leaks and was really disappointed in the key story beat. Druckmann's reaction on Twitter has cemented the fact that, to me, he set out for this game to be a social commentary first and sequel second. I knew that I wouldn't want to play as that character after that event, and wouldn't enjoy that experience, so it was my choice to opt out.
That's fair enough - I avoided the spoilers, and played the game through on easy because I wanted the story, but I'm too old now to have the time to play through a 30+ hour game while also having to replay various sections again and again beause I keep being killed. 
If I'd seen the spoilers, I may have thought twice about buying and playing the game. Certainly when the change of perspective happens I spend the first hour or so nearly "forcing" myself to play, because I didn't like the character. This changed over the play time I spent - with video games, it seems in the end I side with whichever protagonist I'm playing.
If you loved the first game, when this one finally hits the discount bins I'd recommend you give it a go as I'd have thought and said exactly the same things you're saying before playing it all the way through.
Durzel said:
I don't think it's particularly surprising or interesting that people have visceral reactions to things they love that that go in a direction they don't want. If anything it speaks to the brilliance of TLOU1 that people feel this strongly it and in particular the partnership of Ellie and Joel.
You're right, I think that's a pretty fair point in both respects. For me Joel's death (especially so early on) was of course a shock, and it was a saddening and 'challenging' event if you like, but it felt authentic and it fit within the brutality of the world TLOU created (as did the unceremonious death of Jesse for example).
As such I ultimately enjoyed it as I feel it added more to the story than if, for example, he'd been beaten up, presumed dead but miraculously survived and then they'd perhaps set out for revenge together in a more faithful recreation of Part 1's "Joel & Ellie adventure journey" trope.
That would have felt somewhat contrived and for me would have cheapened the overall feel of the experience. Much like if Ellie had returned to the farm and it was all happy families for example...
Perhaps I'm just a bit of a misery guts though
I agree with the rest of your post, I've just had zero exposure to the subject (and presumably am far happier as a result
) so haven't got anything to add.SturdyHSV said:
Durzel said:
I don't think it's particularly surprising or interesting that people have visceral reactions to things they love that that go in a direction they don't want. If anything it speaks to the brilliance of TLOU1 that people feel this strongly it and in particular the partnership of Ellie and Joel.
You're right, I think that's a pretty fair point in both respects. For me Joel's death (especially so early on) was of course a shock, and it was a saddening and 'challenging' event if you like, but it felt authentic and it fit within the brutality of the world TLOU created (as did the unceremonious death of Jesse for example).
As such I ultimately enjoyed it as I feel it added more to the story than if, for example, he'd been beaten up, presumed dead but miraculously survived and then they'd perhaps set out for revenge together in a more faithful recreation of Part 1's "Joel & Ellie adventure journey" trope.
That would have felt somewhat contrived and for me would have cheapened the overall feel of the experience. Much like if Ellie had returned to the farm and it was all happy families for example...
Perhaps I'm just a bit of a misery guts though
I agree with the rest of your post, I've just had zero exposure to the subject (and presumably am far happier as a result
) so haven't got anything to add.That's just my opinion though. I don't doubt that it's probably a very good game, but it is just an experience that I am personally choosing not to take part in. I am bitterly disappointed about that, though, but not to the point where I think I should be able to dictate the direction the game goes, or abuse those that were a part of bringing that version to life.
DanL said:
Durzel said:
I saw the leaks and was really disappointed in the key story beat. Druckmann's reaction on Twitter has cemented the fact that, to me, he set out for this game to be a social commentary first and sequel second. I knew that I wouldn't want to play as that character after that event, and wouldn't enjoy that experience, so it was my choice to opt out.
That's fair enough - I avoided the spoilers, and played the game through on easy because I wanted the story, but I'm too old now to have the time to play through a 30+ hour game while also having to replay various sections again and again beause I keep being killed. If I'd seen the spoilers, I may have thought twice about buying and playing the game. Certainly when the change of perspective happens I spend the first hour or so nearly "forcing" myself to play, because I didn't like the character. This changed over the play time I spent - with video games, it seems in the end I side with whichever protagonist I'm playing.
If you loved the first game, when this one finally hits the discount bins I'd recommend you give it a go as I'd have thought and said exactly the same things you're saying before playing it all the way through.
Durzel said:
I think it's the interactiveness of it that I have a problem with. It feels rather malicious to make the player play as Abby after that event, and I fully understand that the aim of playing as her for several hours is for the player to sympathise with her, etc. That's not to say either that I think Joel and Ellie should've lived happily ever after either. I see that mentioned often, but it's a bit of a trite response (no offence). I would fully accept Joel or indeed Ellie dying, if I felt it was done in service of a well crafted story.. I feel, and it's a subjective opinion of course, is that as technically brilliant as the game is I can't shake the belief - enforced by Druckmann's behaviour on Twitter - that he had a clear objective to shock and punish people in the first instance, with the trajectory of the game following from that.
Oh no offence taken at all, in fact I think that's fair, it wasn't exactly a constructive argument on my side to suggest that because one doesn't like how Joel was killed / playing as Abby that only a fairy tale ending would have been satisfactoryI've been mercifully oblivious to Druckmann so was fortunate to play the game uninfluenced, and as is so often the case it sounds like perhaps ignorance was bliss.
That is a real shame that you're likely to miss out on the game as a result of internet noise. Perhaps if you can pick up a used copy, thus resting assured you're not contributing any money to Druckmann's pockets it'll be an easier pill to swallow...
Anyway, cheers for bearing with me and actually discussing stuff as opposed to (quite rightly) just calling me an arse and moving on with your day
SturdyHSV said:
Finished it over the weekend. Loved the first one, really invested in the characters and the world, thought it was a brilliant game that I was fortunate enough to play blind (as in, I'd never even heard of it, a trusted friend just said "get it, you'll enjoy it")
As soon as the sequel was announced, other than the trailer with Ellie playing the guitar, I avoided any more information about it, in fact it came as a surprise when it was coming up for release, as I'd avoided any news.
Anyway, I felt as a game, it was an improvement on the first one, the gameplay felt more polished, the level of detail and obvious 'love' that had been put in to the gameplay, the environment, it is a fantastic piece of work.
The story I felt was ever so slightly weaker simply in terms of it felt mostly like playing as a solo protaganist, so personally I missed the pair relationship growth that came from the first game, but naturally the story didn't really have room for doing a rehash of the first game for the sake of keeping fans happy.
It's interesting to me that people are so unhappy when something doesn't go the way they wanted it in a story. It is a story, you don't have any say in it, and personally given the nature of the world in TLOU, wrapping everything up in a neat little Hollywood package would have felt like patronising tripe, I'm happy to be treated like an adult and not just spoon fed easily digestible platitudes so that it doesn't hurt my feelings.
Yes, I hated Abby because I was so invested in Ellie and Joel. I didn't want to play as her and my sense of loyalty to Ellie did not change through the story. That was entirely emotional though, and obviously I am perfectly happy to accept that Abby had motivations, her actions were just as justified as Ellie's were, and the gameplay and her story were still interesting and well told and as a character she is an interesting one.
I didn't feel there was some sort of agenda being pushed, yes it was arguably a statistically unlikely mix of character types to form the leads, but so what?
Also the complaint earlier that effectively "back in my day the baddie was the baddie and that was that" and how it's presumably a reflection of "we're teaching children that you're not a bad person, you just make bad chocies" as if that's some sort of ridiculous woke notion? If you honestly think what you perceive as bad people are just 'evil' then you're frankly a simpleton, the idea humans do things without motivations and just "because they're bad" is the sort of basic fairy tale nonsense we should help children grow out of, empathising with someone else's motivations is a useful thing in understanding your fellow human, even if you don't like their justications. As guess what? They probably don't like yours, and just because yours are in your head doesn't guarantee they're right, they're just what you've concluded based on your experiences, same as the other person.
Anyway, personally, excellent game. I only ever played the first one once, but I'm quite tempted to play this one through again, I think the gameplay stands up well on its own even without what was, to me, an exceptionally well told story.
I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, just an observation.....some people are so touchy!As soon as the sequel was announced, other than the trailer with Ellie playing the guitar, I avoided any more information about it, in fact it came as a surprise when it was coming up for release, as I'd avoided any news.
Anyway, I felt as a game, it was an improvement on the first one, the gameplay felt more polished, the level of detail and obvious 'love' that had been put in to the gameplay, the environment, it is a fantastic piece of work.
The story I felt was ever so slightly weaker simply in terms of it felt mostly like playing as a solo protaganist, so personally I missed the pair relationship growth that came from the first game, but naturally the story didn't really have room for doing a rehash of the first game for the sake of keeping fans happy.
It's interesting to me that people are so unhappy when something doesn't go the way they wanted it in a story. It is a story, you don't have any say in it, and personally given the nature of the world in TLOU, wrapping everything up in a neat little Hollywood package would have felt like patronising tripe, I'm happy to be treated like an adult and not just spoon fed easily digestible platitudes so that it doesn't hurt my feelings.
Yes, I hated Abby because I was so invested in Ellie and Joel. I didn't want to play as her and my sense of loyalty to Ellie did not change through the story. That was entirely emotional though, and obviously I am perfectly happy to accept that Abby had motivations, her actions were just as justified as Ellie's were, and the gameplay and her story were still interesting and well told and as a character she is an interesting one.
I didn't feel there was some sort of agenda being pushed, yes it was arguably a statistically unlikely mix of character types to form the leads, but so what?
Also the complaint earlier that effectively "back in my day the baddie was the baddie and that was that" and how it's presumably a reflection of "we're teaching children that you're not a bad person, you just make bad chocies" as if that's some sort of ridiculous woke notion? If you honestly think what you perceive as bad people are just 'evil' then you're frankly a simpleton, the idea humans do things without motivations and just "because they're bad" is the sort of basic fairy tale nonsense we should help children grow out of, empathising with someone else's motivations is a useful thing in understanding your fellow human, even if you don't like their justications. As guess what? They probably don't like yours, and just because yours are in your head doesn't guarantee they're right, they're just what you've concluded based on your experiences, same as the other person.
Anyway, personally, excellent game. I only ever played the first one once, but I'm quite tempted to play this one through again, I think the gameplay stands up well on its own even without what was, to me, an exceptionally well told story.
After the inciting incident your reactions are very much those of Ellie - the game is great at making you really feel the hate.
What is interesting is that Ellie is then at the start of the same story Abby has just completed. Abby’s just got revenge for the killing of her father, and now Ellie is heading out to get revenge for the death of her (adoptive) father.
They’re clearly mirrors of each other, and you could easily have had a game where you play as Abby hunting down the killer of her father, to have the reveal that you’re hunting Joel at the end of the game...
What is interesting is that Ellie is then at the start of the same story Abby has just completed. Abby’s just got revenge for the killing of her father, and now Ellie is heading out to get revenge for the death of her (adoptive) father.
They’re clearly mirrors of each other, and you could easily have had a game where you play as Abby hunting down the killer of her father, to have the reveal that you’re hunting Joel at the end of the game...
AshVX220 said:
I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, just an observation.....some people are so touchy!
That did end up a bit of a rant didn't it? It wasn't intended to sound as red faced as it did reading it back, and although 'you' was used a lot I wasn't intending it to be directed at your post specifically, more just the general back in my day / don't like change style of arguments in the thread (having now finished the game I read through the thread in one go before posting, so who said what was well lost by the time I wrote the response)Definitely reads a bit touchy though
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