Cyberpunk 2077 - NO SPOILERS!
Discussion
mmm-five said:
deckster said:
?
Pretty standard practice. None of these people are slaves and six days of overtime to get your multi-year, high-profile project over the line is hardly a huge ask. Certainly in my development days we were asked for much worse; the week of 8 hour-on, 8-hour off shift working to get some piddly call centre application live on time was a particular highlight.
I 'fondly' remember some 12 week projects entailing 20 hour days (with the weekend off, which were only good for catching up on sleep). Usually when they'd budgeted/billed for a 5-7 person team and then decided little old me and a colleague would be enough.Pretty standard practice. None of these people are slaves and six days of overtime to get your multi-year, high-profile project over the line is hardly a huge ask. Certainly in my development days we were asked for much worse; the week of 8 hour-on, 8-hour off shift working to get some piddly call centre application live on time was a particular highlight.
Strangely the days shortened considerably when my next project was hourly-billed, with overtime rate. Seemed to work out as cheap to get a couple of extra team members than pay the equivalent of 140 hours pay a week (40 hours @ x1, 40 hours at x1.5, 20 hours @ x2) per person.
With more team members the quality of work was better, and there was less re-work, from living off coffee and pizza through the night.
deckster said:
I think we may have been on the same projects...The only other project I did with those hours was for a pharma company in Frankfurt, but it wasn't an IT project (was supposed to be a document production team of 5, but it was me for 18 weeks. I would start at 6am, work to 2am then walk back to the hotel to have burger & fries, vodka & red bull, two hours in bed and a shower.
'Fortunately' the hotel was about 50 yards door to door! I think I had to walk further to get from my office to the building exit (yes an office, just before the days of open-plan working, and before smoking in the offices was banned).
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 1st October 13:15
vonuber said:
Disgusting, really.
Hopefully they have a cry corner and plenty of towels in the office for the snowflake ones.My understanding is most of them where happy to put the effort in to get their project over the line (i.e they have pride in what they do and don't mind putting in the final bit of extra effort) but a handful weren't happy and felt pressured by their hard working colleagues and went off moaning to the games journalists.
At the end of the day they've been asked to work an extra day each week for a total of 6 weeks. Not exactly forced down the coal mines for 20 hours a day is it. Oh and they are getting paid and 10% of the profits are going to the dev teams.
Losers Moan....
Winners Grind!
Edited by MWM3 on Thursday 1st October 15:47
MWM3 said:
Hopefully they have a cry corner and plenty of towels in the office for the snowflake ones.
MWM3 said:
Oh and they are getting paid
The sad thing is that this is atypical and worthy of remark. And also the reason that I went freelance 20+ years ago and always insist on an hourly rate. You want 60 hours a week from me? You pay for 60 hours. Clockwork Cupcake said:
MWM3 said:
Hopefully they have a cry corner and plenty of towels in the office for the snowflake ones.
MWM3 said:
Oh and they are getting paid
The sad thing is that this is atypical and worthy of remark. And also the reason that I went freelance 20+ years ago and always insist on an hourly rate. You want 60 hours a week from me? You pay for 60 hours. Games have always been 11th hour rush jobs before release, the same way racing cars are usually being finished off at 3am on race day.
Shirley it's one of those not-ideal things that comes with any job (for example, I'm a community pharmacist. One of the non-ideal things about my job is I have to be on the premises all the time the shop is open, so there's never a chance for me to pop out for an hour to get something done, attend an appointment, etc. Can be a PITA, but... it comes with the job).
I'd have to assume the overall package, conditions, job satisfaction, etc are acceptable or they'd end up with few staff and certainly not the talent needed to put major successful games together.
(I've pre-ordered this game, btw... not in a particular rush for it though!)
defblade said:
I find myself a bit ambivalent about this... I have understood this is pretty much standard for the industry - and I'm a long way from in the industry - so people must be aware of this going in.
Games have always been 11th hour rush jobs before release, the same way racing cars are usually being finished off at 3am on race day.
Shirley it's one of those not-ideal things that comes with any job (for example, I'm a community pharmacist. One of the non-ideal things about my job is I have to be on the premises all the time the shop is open, so there's never a chance for me to pop out for an hour to get something done, attend an appointment, etc. Can be a PITA, but... it comes with the job).
I'd have to assume the overall package, conditions, job satisfaction, etc are acceptable or they'd end up with few staff and certainly not the talent needed to put major successful games together.
(I've pre-ordered this game, btw... not in a particular rush for it though!)
This is going way off topic (and I have marked this post as such) but early on in my career a manager told me I was a resource, to be consumed and replaced as needed, and that he paid me to do a job not for my time. And I told him to go fGames have always been 11th hour rush jobs before release, the same way racing cars are usually being finished off at 3am on race day.
Shirley it's one of those not-ideal things that comes with any job (for example, I'm a community pharmacist. One of the non-ideal things about my job is I have to be on the premises all the time the shop is open, so there's never a chance for me to pop out for an hour to get something done, attend an appointment, etc. Can be a PITA, but... it comes with the job).
I'd have to assume the overall package, conditions, job satisfaction, etc are acceptable or they'd end up with few staff and certainly not the talent needed to put major successful games together.
(I've pre-ordered this game, btw... not in a particular rush for it though!)
k himself and went freelance. And I have never regretted doing so. Mind you, he was a dick who drank the training budget, turned up drunk at a corporate event, and got fired for gross misconduct. Karma is a bh. But I have never regretted going freelance and have seldom worked for free since (although have under-billed at my discretion on occasion. But it has been my choice). Anyway, I am sure there are some dick-swingers who will shout me down on this. But it is an attitude that has served me well in 20+ years of being freelance.
Your mileage my vary. Don't run with scissors. It's only funny until you have someone's eye out. A guy's dick is always smaller than he claims.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
This is going way off topic (and I have marked this post as such) but early on in my career a manager told me I was a resource, to be consumed and replaced as needed, and that he paid me to do a job not for my time. And I told him to go fk himself and went freelance. And I have never regretted doing so. Mind you, he was a dick who drank the training budget, turned up drunk at a corporate event, and got fired for gross misconduct. Karma is a bh. But I have never regretted going freelance and have seldom worked for free since (although have under-billed at my discretion on occasion. But it has been my choice).
Anyway, I am sure there are some dick-swingers who will shout me down on this. But it is an attitude that has served me well in 20+ years of being freelance.
Your mileage my vary. Don't run with scissors. It's only funny until you have someone's eye out. A guy's dick is always smaller than he claims.
k himself and went freelance. And I have never regretted doing so. Mind you, he was a dick who drank the training budget, turned up drunk at a corporate event, and got fired for gross misconduct. Karma is a bh. But I have never regretted going freelance and have seldom worked for free since (although have under-billed at my discretion on occasion. But it has been my choice). Anyway, I am sure there are some dick-swingers who will shout me down on this. But it is an attitude that has served me well in 20+ years of being freelance.
Your mileage my vary. Don't run with scissors. It's only funny until you have someone's eye out. A guy's dick is always smaller than he claims.
George Smiley said:
And your choice of language is somewhat disappointing
That I hold a mirror up to the fact that that there is a macho "bro-culture" in the software development industry, especially in games development? Despite that being a demonstrable fact? LOL. Ok. Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 2nd October 09:24
MWM3 said:
Hopefully they have a cry corner and plenty of towels in the office for the snowflake ones.
My understanding is most of them where happy to put the effort in to get their project over the line (i.e they have pride in what they do and don't mind putting in the final bit of extra effort) but a handful weren't happy and felt pressured by their hard working colleagues and went off moaning to the games journalists.
At the end of the day they've been asked to work an extra day each week for a total of 6 weeks. Not exactly forced down the coal mines for 20 hours a day is it. Oh and they are getting paid and 10% of the profits are going to the dev teams.
Losers Moan....
Winners Grind!
What a terrible attitude to have. I really hope you are not someone's boss.My understanding is most of them where happy to put the effort in to get their project over the line (i.e they have pride in what they do and don't mind putting in the final bit of extra effort) but a handful weren't happy and felt pressured by their hard working colleagues and went off moaning to the games journalists.
At the end of the day they've been asked to work an extra day each week for a total of 6 weeks. Not exactly forced down the coal mines for 20 hours a day is it. Oh and they are getting paid and 10% of the profits are going to the dev teams.
Losers Moan....
Winners Grind!
Clockwork Cupcake said:
That I hold a mirror up to the fact that that there is a macho "bro-culture" in the software development industry, especially in games development? Despite that being a demonstrable fact? LOL. Ok.
Edit: This is my professional industry btw. Of which I have direct experience of many years. On both sides of the gender debate. But please don't let that dissuade you from venturing your opinions. Never has done in the past.
The games industry has a long history of crunch - other areas of software, this tends to vary depending on how well run and resourced the company in question is, I imagine.Edit: This is my professional industry btw. Of which I have direct experience of many years. On both sides of the gender debate. But please don't let that dissuade you from venturing your opinions. Never has done in the past.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 2nd October 02:16
When I was a developer I very rarely worked longer than 9:00-5:30. I’m no longer a developer (moved into product management around 10 years ago) and I’m aware some teams in my product group do work long hours near the end of projects to deliver on commitments that were made. The commitments were agreed in advance with the development group though, and they signed up to them and gave us the estimates, resource plans and schedules rather than having these imposed upon them. As a result, the level of crunch should be low, but is a function of how well they estimate and project manage...
vonuber said:
What a terrible attitude to have. I really hope you are not someone's boss.
Look at almost all the successful people in the world, I'm not just talking about money but the people who really care and have a passion about what they do and strive for themselves/product/service to be the best, what is the one thing they have in common? They have all put in the grind and made sacrifices.
Is it not reasonable to expect employees to have high standards and make short time sacrifices (whilst getting paid for it) to deliver something they have spent the past 7 years working on to be of the highest quality possible.
Finally stopped dithering and specced/ordered my new PC.
- AMD Ryzen R5 3600XT
- Corsair H100i Platinum CPU cooler
- ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS Wi-Fi
- 32gb (2x16) Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200 CL16 RAM
- RTX3080
- Corsair RM750 80+ Gold PSU
- Corsair iCUE 220T RGB Airflow case
- 1TB Seagate Firecuda 520 Gen4 m.2 SSD
- 2TB Seagate Ironwolf Pro HDD
- Corsair K70 mechanical RGB gaming keyboard
- Corsair Ironclaw RGB gaming mouse
mmm-five said:
Finally stopped dithering and specced/ordered my new PC.
If you haven't already ordered dont waste money on the Corsair cooler the included Wraith is good enough- AMD Ryzen R5 3600XT
- Corsair H100i Platinum CPU cooler
- ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PLUS Wi-Fi
- 32gb (2x16) Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200 CL16 RAM
- RTX3080
- Corsair RM750 80+ Gold PSU
- Corsair iCUE 220T RGB Airflow case
- 1TB Seagate Firecuda 520 Gen4 m.2 SSD
- 2TB Seagate Ironwolf Pro HDD
- Corsair K70 mechanical RGB gaming keyboard
- Corsair Ironclaw RGB gaming mouse
Narcisus said:
If you haven't already ordered dont waste money on the Corsair cooler the included Wraith is good enough
Thanks 
...but too late
The only reasons I added the alternative cooler was some youtube build reviews about fan noise from the Wraith cooler, and to have a small additional benefit in helping reduce overall temps in the case.
mmm-five said:
Narcisus said:
If you haven't already ordered dont waste money on the Corsair cooler the included Wraith is good enough
Thanks ...but too late
The only reasons I added the alternative cooler was some youtube build reviews about fan noise from the Wraith cooler, and to have a small additional benefit in helping reduce overall temps in the case.
You wont go wrong with the Corsair it's a great cooler ! I went from one on my old 2500k. I was pleasantly surprised with the Wraith and it's pretty quiet. Not as quiet as your Corsair of course !Gassing Station | Video Games | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff