Anyone else not impressed with the PS5 so far?
Discussion
Narcisus said:
Check this out : https://youtu.be/pRRWsE3s46Q
I read about that earlier, but its a comparison of old games and not new games. Microsoft designed their console to play back catalogue from the start, Sony implemented it as a no frills afterthought - even ps4 vs ps5 performance for PS4 isn't anthing to talk about https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/11/hands_on_p...It's the comparison of new games that will be telling.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 8th November 22:30
hyphen said:
Narcisus said:
Check this out : https://youtu.be/pRRWsE3s46Q
I read about that earlier, but its a comparison of old games and not new games. Microsoft designed their console to play back catalogue from the start, Sony implemented it as a no frills afterthought - even ps4 vs ps5 performance for PS4 isn't anthing to talk about https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/11/hands_on_p...It's the comparison of new games that will be telling.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 8th November 22:30
Given that decompression of the game assets will still be using zlib on the PS4 games, which can only be decompressed using the CPU, whereas the PS5 games will use Kraken which has a dedicated decompression chip, this will also mean the loads speeds aren't a huge improvement. The PS4 games which run in legacy mode are basically only getting the advantage of faster read speeds from the SSD, nothing else - not the Kraken compression compression format, or the dedicated chip decompression, nor the increased CPU and GPU speeds.
The Xbox BC is definitely more clever, but given the lack of launch titles and the focus on gamepass with all the old games, it's something they had to do.
MS seem to be focusing on making the series X a 'step' into the next generation, with the same interface and UI, essentially the same controller, and support for all the old games back to the OG Xbox. They've stepped through the door but have still left a foot in.
Sony on the other hand have jumped through, with just a glance back through the door. The PS5's focus is very obviously on a 'leap' into the next generation, with the dualsense, the massively fast SSD (which can only really be used to full effect on new games), and the new fancy compression format. BC has been added as a bonus, and although it plays PS4 games really well (all of them than can be are locked at 60fps), the major focus is on the next gen stuff. See Miles Morales loading speed and raytracing for proof.
Edited by Tall_Paul on Sunday 8th November 23:23
hyphen said:
Narcisus said:
Check this out : https://youtu.be/pRRWsE3s46Q
I read about that earlier, but its a comparison of old games and not new games. Microsoft designed their console to play back catalogue from the start, Sony implemented it as a no frills afterthought - even ps4 vs ps5 performance for PS4 isn't anthing to talk about https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/11/hands_on_p...It's the comparison of new games that will be telling.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 8th November 22:30
Narcisus said:
Yeah will be interesting. Only seems like 2 mins that I was picking my 360 up from HMV and my PS2 before that from Game.... Always nice to have new kit.
Yep, remember buying my PS2 AT Game with money from my first part time job at pizza hut while at Uni. Then a 360 (2 of which died from RROD, but was replaced by an elite). Then a, Fat PS3, which did sterling service till it died the day before I got an xbox 1.
hyphen said:
How much more powerful, and is it actually needed vs a faster hard disk? As Sony have focused on the latter and the reported numbers are:
IO Throughput
PS5 : 5.5GB/s (Raw), Typical 8-9GB/s (Compressed)
XboxX: 2.4GB/s (Raw), 4.8GB/s (Compressed)
As how many times will you push performance to the limit? Wheras the Sony's 2x faster SSD will be benefited from every second!
Wow, so much fanboy-ism and technical ignorance in one post. Where to start?IO Throughput
PS5 : 5.5GB/s (Raw), Typical 8-9GB/s (Compressed)
XboxX: 2.4GB/s (Raw), 4.8GB/s (Compressed)
As how many times will you push performance to the limit? Wheras the Sony's 2x faster SSD will be benefited from every second!
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 8th November 21:44
First, the SSD in the Xbox isn't exactly slow.
Second, going by loading times of back-compatible games, the Xbox SSD easily keeps up with the Sony one in practical 'load a game' applications which should tell you how 'important' the technical speed difference will be in the real world. We might see games that make heavier use of SSD to stream in textures or other data needed by the GPU but I would expect that the Xbox SSD should be effectively as capable at that - they are both based on PCI Express 4.0 tech. If anything, having more usable storage capacity (which the PS5 appears to have sacrificed to get more raw speed) is likely to be more beneficial to the end user.
Third, and more pertinently, a faster SSD isn't going to help shift pixels, ray trace or draw textures on a 4k screen which is what the console will be ACTUALLY be doing 'every second' when you are gaming.
The PS5 isn't requiring so much cooling because it has a 'fast SSD', it's because Sony are needing to cool the CPU/GPU silicon. MS managed to make a console employing the same underlying Zen2/RDNA2 architecture with a higher clocked CPU and more powerful GPU setup which didn't need to be housed in a massive slab in order to cool it quietly.
I would suspect that they wanted to get it to market quickly and were very aware of the criticism that the PS4 drew for noise (my PS4 Pro can sound like a jet turbine on some titles and my OG PS3 is also pretty noisy) so just went for a massive box containing a huge heatsink and fan which is the brute force solution to cooling requiring minimum fancy engineering.
Sony are pretty proactive when it comes to revising their console designs so I'm hopeful that there will quickly be a more compact version with some more sophisticated cooling engineered in.
Lucas, I imagine all of what you say is true. I don’t know, as I don’t pay attention to the tech specs - if I wanted to do that, I’d still own a gaming PC. 
What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
DanL said:
Lucas, I imagine all of what you say is true. I don’t know, as I don’t pay attention to the tech specs - if I wanted to do that, I’d still own a gaming PC.
What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
Looks like you can lie the Xbox on its side to make it fit most cabinets, just looks awful that way(IMO). And you can easily either hide it away when stood upright or maybe even put it beside the TV on the shelf because it has a reasonable compact, square, footprint.What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
The PS5 OTOH is literally a huge slab that Sony have attempted to disguise with funky side plates which make it look like the Tower of Sauron. It'll be a squeeze to fit into a typical shelf designed for a DVD/BD player or satellite box, certainly won't be easy to stack directly on top of something without a shelf and nothing can be stacked on top of it. Hiding it away is also going to be difficult because of the bulk.
IMO it's on a par with the OG PS3 (which I actually own) for ugliness but even bulkier. The only reason I didn't wait for something like the PS3 Slim before buying my PS3 was because Sony were about to cut down the features in their first revision, about a year after it went on sale in the UK and I wanted the SACD playback, PS2 hardware support and extra usb ports and memory card slots.
I will probably wait until there's a more compact version of the PS5 available before I take the plunge, but of course everyone has different priorities and some may actually like the overstated size and looks. They'll certainly sell as many as they can make for the first few months anyway. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a more conventional looking and compact PS5 by Christmas 2021.
DanL said:
Lucas, I imagine all of what you say is true. I don’t know, as I don’t pay attention to the tech specs - if I wanted to do that, I’d still own a gaming PC.
What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
Don’t worry, the OP has been on a mission with this thread to convince everyone that xb > ps.What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
Must work for microsofts marketing department, or failing that he is just another fanboy
Lucas Ayde said:
The PS5 OTOH is literally a huge slab that Sony have attempted to disguise with funky side plates which make it look like the Tower of Sauron. It'll be a squeeze to fit into a typical shelf designed for a DVD/BD player or satellite box, certainly won't be easy to stack directly on top of something without a shelf and nothing can be stacked on top of it.
I reckon it’ll fit nicely where my current PS4 is, and will look quite funky...
Appreciate form factor won’t work for everyone though. XBox wise, I could move the TV forward a little on the stand and hide it behind, but I prefer the PS5 games that are announced so far. There seem to be very few XBox exclusives currently, and if the last generation is anything to go by this will continue.
They have bought Bethesda, but in the unlikely event they become Microsoft only I’ll just have to find a way to live without massively buggy games.
BaronVonVaderham said:
Don’t worry, the OP has been on a mission with this thread to convince everyone that xb > ps.
Must work for microsofts marketing department, or failing that he is just another fanboy
Must work for microsofts marketing department, or failing that he is just another fanboy
Oh dear, are the schools still off? For what it's worth, I'm now more likely to get a PS5. I did have an Xbox Series S on pre-order (as I only have 1080p TV sets) but it didn't seem to be living up to the early promises of a cheaper, '1080p Series X' so I cancelled it .... and Sony's better than expected backwards compatibility (and enhancement) for PS4 titles has meant that since I currently own a PS4 Pro (and 2x PS3, and a PS Vita, and even a Vita TV for that matter) mean I'll likely eventually go that way when I want to do a console upgrade as I have a ton of games for it. Many of those are unfinished or even unplayed and mainly in 'digital' format. Just having been on PS Plus since 2011 means I have a ton of PS4 games from that, which I would want to keep playable.
However, to my eyes the PS5 hardware is currently a large, ugly beast of a console and I'm in no hurry to get one. It's, factually speaking, less powerful than the Series X and the bulk is because of a brute force cooling design which Microsoft clearly managed to do much better. It just speaks of Sony pushing hardware out sooner than they would have liked or, perhaps, to a price. My guess is that it'd be at least £500 without the £450 Series X and no 'Playstation Plus PS5 collection' without the Xbox Gamepass.
As I have witnessed with PS3 and PS4, Sony do regularly revise and (generally) improve the design of their consoles so I'm sure they'll have something less whale-like out before next Christmas. It's not like my PS4 Pro is going to explode the moment the PS5 is released.
DanL said:
Lucas, I imagine all of what you say is true. I don’t know, as I don’t pay attention to the tech specs - if I wanted to do that, I’d still own a gaming PC.
What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
would the 12mm really cause that much of problem, considering the airflow both consoles require?What I would say is that Sony have a console that will (just!) still sit on a shelf under the TV. Microsoft’s next gen tower won’t - it’ll have to sit awkwardly to one side, or perhaps behind the TV if things can be neatly arranged... Form factor isn’t a killer app, but it is something.
I'm really torn as to which system to pick up. Whereas usually its a pretty easy pick between consoles (which one has the games you like? which one is more powerful?), this generation, the hardware spec is nigh on identical, but the experience the two companies are promising is radically different. Sony is for continuation of console norms, MS is basically moving to a Netflix model.
I didn't buy an XBONE or PS4 because I'm busy and I hated slow installs, patches, boot ups, and tutorials in the last gen of games. If I have 1hr a week to play games, I don't want to spend 45 mins of that hour watching status bars. I want to push the on button, and blow stuff up.
PS pros:
- I have been a big PS fan (although I chose an 360 over PS3) and love heritage PS games (Tekken, Ridge Racer, etc)
- PS will probably have the best exclusives for the next year (until exclusivity kicks in for the studios MS bought)
- The force feedback controller sounds really, really cool
- Will probably have better support from Japanese developers (my preference is for Japanese arcade style games)
Xbox pros:
- Its much, much better looking. I'm 39 and I've spent a lot of money making my living room look nice. The PS5 looks like an ugly gaming PC.
- "Netflix for games" probably fits my schedule better...and I hope it leads to shorter, more risk-taking games vs 50 hour walking sims.
- Batcompat is actually a thing for me, there are a ton of games from prior gens I missed and would like to try (especially if they are free)
- You get the feeling MS are trying harder this gen, as they are underdogs.
Then again, launch window availability may determine what I CAN buy vs what I might like...
I didn't buy an XBONE or PS4 because I'm busy and I hated slow installs, patches, boot ups, and tutorials in the last gen of games. If I have 1hr a week to play games, I don't want to spend 45 mins of that hour watching status bars. I want to push the on button, and blow stuff up.
PS pros:
- I have been a big PS fan (although I chose an 360 over PS3) and love heritage PS games (Tekken, Ridge Racer, etc)
- PS will probably have the best exclusives for the next year (until exclusivity kicks in for the studios MS bought)
- The force feedback controller sounds really, really cool
- Will probably have better support from Japanese developers (my preference is for Japanese arcade style games)
Xbox pros:
- Its much, much better looking. I'm 39 and I've spent a lot of money making my living room look nice. The PS5 looks like an ugly gaming PC.
- "Netflix for games" probably fits my schedule better...and I hope it leads to shorter, more risk-taking games vs 50 hour walking sims.
- Batcompat is actually a thing for me, there are a ton of games from prior gens I missed and would like to try (especially if they are free)
- You get the feeling MS are trying harder this gen, as they are underdogs.
Then again, launch window availability may determine what I CAN buy vs what I might like...
Wadeski said:
I'm really torn as to which system to pick up. Whereas usually its a pretty easy pick between consoles (which one has the games you like? which one is more powerful?), this generation, the hardware spec is nigh on identical, but the experience the two companies are promising is radically different. Sony is for continuation of console norms, MS is basically moving to a Netflix model.
I didn't buy an XBONE or PS4 because I'm busy and I hated slow installs, patches, boot ups, and tutorials in the last gen of games. If I have 1hr a week to play games, I don't want to spend 45 mins of that hour watching status bars. I want to push the on button, and blow stuff up.
PS pros:
- I have been a big PS fan (although I chose an 360 over PS3) and love heritage PS games (Tekken, Ridge Racer, etc)
- PS will probably have the best exclusives for the next year (until exclusivity kicks in for the studios MS bought)
- The force feedback controller sounds really, really cool
- Will probably have better support from Japanese developers (my preference is for Japanese arcade style games)
Xbox pros:
- Its much, much better looking. I'm 39 and I've spent a lot of money making my living room look nice. The PS5 looks like an ugly gaming PC.
- "Netflix for games" probably fits my schedule better...and I hope it leads to shorter, more risk-taking games vs 50 hour walking sims.
- Batcompat is actually a thing for me, there are a ton of games from prior gens I missed and would like to try (especially if they are free)
- You get the feeling MS are trying harder this gen, as they are underdogs.
Then again, launch window availability may determine what I CAN buy vs what I might like...
There's no need to rush out and try to get a next-gen console before Christmas (unless you want to give it as a present).I didn't buy an XBONE or PS4 because I'm busy and I hated slow installs, patches, boot ups, and tutorials in the last gen of games. If I have 1hr a week to play games, I don't want to spend 45 mins of that hour watching status bars. I want to push the on button, and blow stuff up.
PS pros:
- I have been a big PS fan (although I chose an 360 over PS3) and love heritage PS games (Tekken, Ridge Racer, etc)
- PS will probably have the best exclusives for the next year (until exclusivity kicks in for the studios MS bought)
- The force feedback controller sounds really, really cool
- Will probably have better support from Japanese developers (my preference is for Japanese arcade style games)
Xbox pros:
- Its much, much better looking. I'm 39 and I've spent a lot of money making my living room look nice. The PS5 looks like an ugly gaming PC.
- "Netflix for games" probably fits my schedule better...and I hope it leads to shorter, more risk-taking games vs 50 hour walking sims.
- Batcompat is actually a thing for me, there are a ton of games from prior gens I missed and would like to try (especially if they are free)
- You get the feeling MS are trying harder this gen, as they are underdogs.
Then again, launch window availability may determine what I CAN buy vs what I might like...
I will just wait to see what the New Year brings ... I didn't move to the PS4 generation from my PS3 until Sony came out with the PS4 Pro, which was enough to tip me into getting one (along with PSVR coming out, wanted to try VR).
The Series X looks like an awesome machine with a more 'complete' feature set out of the box, more powerful hardware and a better engineered physical package plus the fantastic Gamepass - but a sad lack of must-have next-gen games at release and in the near future. If I was already on Xbox this gen, it would be a must-have for me though for the enhancements of existing titles.
The PS5 ticks most of the boxes (especially with my PS4 background) but it's hard to get past the looks and size, for me at least.
And of course, the lockdown tech buying mania means it's so hard to get any popular new tech even if you want it .... otherwise I'd be rocking an RTX 3070 in my PC now. (that might be a blessing in disguise if the 7nm RTX rumours are true for 2021).
hyphen said:
Lucas Ayde said:
There's no need to rush out and try to get a next-gen console before Christmas (unless you want to give it as a present).
Important to remember that.Lucas Ayde said:
I would suspect that they wanted to get it to market quickly and were very aware of the criticism that the PS4 drew for noise (my PS4 Pro can sound like a jet turbine on some titles and my OG PS3 is also pretty noisy) so just went for a massive box containing a huge heatsink and fan which is the brute force solution to cooling requiring minimum fancy engineering.
Sony are pretty proactive when it comes to revising their console designs so I'm hopeful that there will quickly be a more compact version with some more sophisticated cooling engineered in.
So while they were making this "brute force solution" with "minimum fancy engineering" they just threw in the liquid metal for fun then ? Sony are pretty proactive when it comes to revising their console designs so I'm hopeful that there will quickly be a more compact version with some more sophisticated cooling engineered in.
Are you hoping that MS revise their design too, given it runs hotter than the PS5 according to digital foundry.
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