Xbox series X vs well specced PC
Discussion
PC all day for me, yes they are more expensive but all those xbox games you can run on your PC, then you can play decent PC games (not the dodgy ones converted from consoles which are really poor in most cases).
You also have the ability to do far more with a PC than you can with a console, and 4k on a console... its upscaled rather than native in most cases (they can't usually do more than 30fps at 4k hence the upscaling).
This does not mean consoles dont have a place, they do, in entry level gaming, for everything else, PC's dominate.
You also have the ability to do far more with a PC than you can with a console, and 4k on a console... its upscaled rather than native in most cases (they can't usually do more than 30fps at 4k hence the upscaling).
This does not mean consoles dont have a place, they do, in entry level gaming, for everything else, PC's dominate.
tonyb1968 said:
PC all day for me, yes they are more expensive but all those xbox games you can run on your PC, then you can play decent PC games (not the dodgy ones converted from consoles which are really poor in most cases).
You also have the ability to do far more with a PC than you can with a console, and 4k on a console... its upscaled rather than native in most cases (they can't usually do more than 30fps at 4k hence the upscaling).
This does not mean consoles dont have a place, they do, in entry level gaming, for everything else, PC's dominate.
Honestly I think that there's a lot of braggadocio around PC gaming, how many games actually make "proper" use of 4K and/or ray tracing and/or all the CPU cores etc. For sure there's a whole category of games like flight sims where only a PC will do, and the detail and resolution of the scenery can actually be taken in. But for most fast moving action games, I don't think it makes one jot of difference whether you play at 8k, 4k or 2k and at 60 fps or 120fps, or whatever. And there's actually very few games that have the budgets to come up with an engine that can really take advantage of the hardware AND populate the game world with a level of detail to suit leading edge PC hardware.You also have the ability to do far more with a PC than you can with a console, and 4k on a console... its upscaled rather than native in most cases (they can't usually do more than 30fps at 4k hence the upscaling).
This does not mean consoles dont have a place, they do, in entry level gaming, for everything else, PC's dominate.
I was a home computer then PC gamer exclusively for 25 years until I got my first console, a PS4 Pro, a few years ago, and I haven't looked back. I know that every game has been tuned to work on my hardware, and the games "just work". When a previous generation console can play something as beautiful and rich as RDR2, that's good enough for me, and you can buy a complete next gen console for less money than a mid range GPU for a PC that you will be made to feel is obsolete within a year.
Most games leave me disappointed with their poor gameplay, wooden animations or low detail worlds, not the fidelity of the graphics.
PhilboSE said:
tonyb1968 said:
PC all day for me, yes they are more expensive but all those xbox games you can run on your PC, then you can play decent PC games (not the dodgy ones converted from consoles which are really poor in most cases).
You also have the ability to do far more with a PC than you can with a console, and 4k on a console... its upscaled rather than native in most cases (they can't usually do more than 30fps at 4k hence the upscaling).
This does not mean consoles dont have a place, they do, in entry level gaming, for everything else, PC's dominate.
Honestly I think that there's a lot of braggadocio around PC gaming, how many games actually make "proper" use of 4K and/or ray tracing and/or all the CPU cores etc. For sure there's a whole category of games like flight sims where only a PC will do, and the detail and resolution of the scenery can actually be taken in. But for most fast moving action games, I don't think it makes one jot of difference whether you play at 8k, 4k or 2k and at 60 fps or 120fps, or whatever. And there's actually very few games that have the budgets to come up with an engine that can really take advantage of the hardware AND populate the game world with a level of detail to suit leading edge PC hardware.You also have the ability to do far more with a PC than you can with a console, and 4k on a console... its upscaled rather than native in most cases (they can't usually do more than 30fps at 4k hence the upscaling).
This does not mean consoles dont have a place, they do, in entry level gaming, for everything else, PC's dominate.
I was a home computer then PC gamer exclusively for 25 years until I got my first console, a PS4 Pro, a few years ago, and I haven't looked back. I know that every game has been tuned to work on my hardware, and the games "just work". When a previous generation console can play something as beautiful and rich as RDR2, that's good enough for me, and you can buy a complete next gen console for less money than a mid range GPU for a PC that you will be made to feel is obsolete within a year.
Most games leave me disappointed with their poor gameplay, wooden animations or low detail worlds, not the fidelity of the graphics.
Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Native 4k.
The latest consoles can run native 4K (Xbox One X could and PS4 Pro, PS4 can't), but even native 4k won't run all the time on a console, it will upscale from as low as 720p, if you set a PC to not upscale and to run 4K resolution, then that is what it does.
Ray Tracing.
Again, more compromises with the latest consoles, on the PC you set that to quality and it stays on quality, consoles will adjust it automatically and you will lose detail, but it is done very well so noticing it will be difficult unless you are specifically looking for it, PC, no issues, its just great all the time with no compromise.
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
tonyb1968 said:
There is no boasting about PC gaming, it just is better than console gaming, full stop.
Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Native 4k.
The latest consoles can run native 4K (Xbox One X could and PS4 Pro, PS4 can't), but even native 4k won't run all the time on a console, it will upscale from as low as 720p, if you set a PC to not upscale and to run 4K resolution, then that is what it does.
Ray Tracing.
Again, more compromises with the latest consoles, on the PC you set that to quality and it stays on quality, consoles will adjust it automatically and you will lose detail, but it is done very well so noticing it will be difficult unless you are specifically looking for it, PC, no issues, its just great all the time with no compromise.
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
All this maybe true but I have a half decent PC and would still rather lie on the sofa and play on the Xbox on my TV...... Yeah the graphics maybe a bit better on the PC but from the distance I would never tell.Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Native 4k.
The latest consoles can run native 4K (Xbox One X could and PS4 Pro, PS4 can't), but even native 4k won't run all the time on a console, it will upscale from as low as 720p, if you set a PC to not upscale and to run 4K resolution, then that is what it does.
Ray Tracing.
Again, more compromises with the latest consoles, on the PC you set that to quality and it stays on quality, consoles will adjust it automatically and you will lose detail, but it is done very well so noticing it will be difficult unless you are specifically looking for it, PC, no issues, its just great all the time with no compromise.
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
Narcisus said:
All this maybe true but I have a half decent PC and would still rather lie on the sofa and play on the Xbox on my TV...... Yeah the graphics maybe a bit better on the PC but from the distance I would never tell.
Agreed.Plus the console is often easier and quicker to access games and more stable. I don’t want loads of settings and adjustments and compatibility issues, I just want to download a game from the Xbox store and play it on my sofa with an Xbox controller.
Other times I feel like sitting down at a pc with peripherals and a different type of game.
To me it depends entirely on what games you want to play and where you want to play them and who you want to play them with, as to which one is ‘better’
Today for instance I’ve played flightsim on a pc (which is still plagued with problems), gta on one son’s Xbox with my other son on his and later, my daughter and I played supermario kart on her Nintendo switch on her bedroom tv. All were great and just different. The pc gaming was least trouble free though.
Maybe if I lived on my own I’d just want a pc? It all depends.
El stovey said:
Narcisus said:
All this maybe true but I have a half decent PC and would still rather lie on the sofa and play on the Xbox on my TV...... Yeah the graphics maybe a bit better on the PC but from the distance I would never tell.
Agreed.Plus the console is often easier and quicker to access games and more stable. I don’t want loads of settings and adjustments and compatibility issues, I just want to download a game from the Xbox store and play it on my sofa with an Xbox controller.
Other times I feel like sitting down at a pc with peripherals and a different type of game.
To me it depends entirely on what games you want to play and where you want to play them and who you want to play them with, as to which one is ‘better’
Today for instance I’ve played flightsim on a pc (which is still plagued with problems), gta on one son’s Xbox with my other son on his and later, my daughter and I played supermario kart on her Nintendo switch on her bedroom tv. All were great and just different. The pc gaming was least trouble free though.
Maybe if I lived on my own I’d just want a pc? It all depends.
tonyb1968 said:
There is no boasting about PC gaming, it just is better than console gaming, full stop.
What I was saying about PC gaming is that a lot of people seem to be actually more concerned about getting high framerates at increasingly higher resolutions, and spend huge amounts of time and money trying to do so, rather than actually playing the game.PCs can have better graphics, no argument, but is it better gaming, that's debateable IMO.
tonyb1968 said:
Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
This kind of proves my point. Firstly, I've not played it, but I understand Cyberpunk 2077 isn't a great game. When I play games I'm interested in enjoying the game. Great graphics can help make the game, but if the game is bad then no sugary coating is going to help it. Secondly, is it any surprise that a brand new game doesn't run well on 5 year old hardware? How well do you think it will run on a 5 year old PC? Thirdly, by your own admission it runs "great" on a PS5, you couldn't even buy a comparable PC GPU for the price of a PS5 (if either of them was actually available!)tonyb1968 said:
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Calling it "entry level gaming" sounds a bit like snobbery to me. In most cases the game experience will be identical on a £400 console vs a £1500 PC. Spending £2000-£3000 on a gaming PC will let you run the same game at higher resolutions/framerates. Personally 60fps is plenty for me, I struggle with the obsession over 120fps and higher. But games that aren't AAA won't necessarily have a better engine or textures or models that will actually take advantage of the higher resolution. You have more pixels, but the gaming experience is actually the same.tonyb1968 said:
Native 4k.
Again. you're equating resolution with gaming. This may or may not be important for the individual or the game. The screen I game on isn't 4k, so not an issue. And anyone who plays an action shooter (single player or online) and says that 4k is important is kidding themselves. The action is so quick you never even see the extra detail.tonyb1968 said:
Ray Tracing.
I'm awaiting evidence that ray tracing actually improves the game. I haven't seen it first hand, but the screen shots I've seen aren't compelling. Different, yes, but better? Not sure. As I've said, I'm still actually astonished with what state of the art engines can do even on previous gen hardware (which didn't even have the latest and greatest GPUs when they were released) on consoles.tonyb1968 said:
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Again, this supports my point rather than proves yours. I don't want to be fiddling with a million different graphical controls to find out the combination that isn't underselling my PC hardware and yet doesn't turn into a slideshow as soon as the action or detail hots up. I have no idea what combination of resolution, model detail, shader quality, anisotropic filtering, antialiasing and all the other gumpf will actually be best for a given game on my PC hardware. I'll probably ratchet them down a bit because if my framerate suddenly drops to 10fps during a boss fight that's going to be a far bigger impact on my gaming experience than a slightly unaliased edge detail. On a console I know that the dev and QA team will have tuned and tested everything so that my hardware is being pushed to the max without impacting my gaming experience.Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
tonyb1968 said:
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
No argument, I even made that point in my original statement. You think I'm attacking PC gaming and/or can't see that it can be technically more advanced, I'm not, I'm making the observation that some PC gamers seem to end up chasing higher and higher resolutions and framerates for their own sake.Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
tonyb1968 said:
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
Sorry but I think you are way off the mark here. PC hardware gets superceded in some way every month. A console remains as relevant from the day it was released until the day it gets replaced with a new model - 4 to 5 years. In the PC world there is something new and better all the time, and often it requires large scale changes.PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
Case in point: my PC motherboard failed this week. It was completely fine for what I needed to use it for, but can I just replace the motherboard? Nope, no-one makes motherboards for my CPU socket any more, so I have to buy a new motherboard AND a new CPU. AND a new heatsink cooler, because the mounting brackets are different again. Oh AND another 16Gb of DDR4 RAM because my old motherboard was DDR3. So now I have to spend a couple of days doing a crash course on available CPUs, working out AMD or Intel, what generation of chip offers what features etc. Then I have to buy the RAM, but no you can't just buy 16Gb DDR4, you have to work out if MHz speed you want (and if it will actually make any detectable difference to the performance of the system at all) and then start stressing that your PC4-28800 18-22-22-42 memory will be better or worse than XMP 2.0 20-20-20-50 memory. Or whether the 100% price difference between them is worth it.
So to remove some of the variables I buy a mobo and CPU bundle based on a Ryzen 3 5600X, and some "Ryzen optimised" DDR4. And then I find out that I shouldn't have bought the motherboard because it "only" has a B450 chipset and not an X570 and that means I won't be able to benefit from PCIe 4.0 and faster memory addressing to the latest Radeon GPU. Really I should have spent an extra £100 on the motherboard to future proof myself. Until the next innovation comes out and obsoletes me again.
So I plug in my 7 year old GTX 770 and for some reason there's lines all over the screen. In disturbing it from the case it's had a terminal event and it too now needs replacing. Oh well, it did 7 years so I should be able to replace it with a card that's a couple of years old for about £200 and it should be about 10 times better right? Well, no, because there are barely any GPUs available, the cheapest ones available are about £450 and according to benchmark sites they score less than 3 times more than my 7 year old card that cost me £200 back then! WTF! And then I have to spend another evening educating myself about the various different GPUs, trying to work out red or green, and whether a faster card from the previous generation (or two) would actually be better for me than a slower card from a later generation. And whether I'm actually going to buy and/or play any games which would actually utilise the hardware any better. And then I need to work out if my CPU is even well matched for my GPU, and I have a balanced system, or if my super expensive GPU will now be idling away waiting for the rest of the system to feed it with data.
(all of the above is 100% true, I'm typing this now on the new machine. Not yet dropped the cash on a new GPU, I think I'd like a 2060 but I'd rather be paying the MSRP of £270 rather than the £450 they're selling for, when they're available, which they're not).
tonyb1968 said:
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
A highly specified PC is of course a much more capable machine than a console. I didn't assert otherwise so you're contesting a point I didn't make. However, "PC longevity" is a joke, they are superceded and obsoleted far more quickly than a console unless you continually spend huge amounts of money to keep yourself at the bleeding edge.Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
Also I think you confuse "best gaming experience" with "technically best hardware". My "best gaming experience" is if I can just turn on the console, pick up and enjoy a game, without continually stressing about whether I should fiddle with the gfx settings in case I'm shortchanging my specific PC configuration. And of course many games are about the gameplay not the graphics - which is as it should be. To me it's far less important to be able to say "hey look at me I'm running Cyberpunk 2077 in 4k at max detail at 120fps" than it is to say "hey look at me I'm really enjoying playing Days Gone on my console".
Sometimes this stuff makes a real difference. PC's can have technically the best hardware - at a ridiculous cost to get to that level and stay there - and for some experiences only a PC will do, but if you just want to enjoy games then modern console hardware isn't going to hold you back for 99% of gamers and it's misplaced to dismiss it so sniffily as "entry level gaming". I'd assert that most "entry level gamers" on a PS5 are actually experiencing better hardware being better utilised than all but the PC gaming elite who have systems that cost them £3000+.
We're lucky to have both options, you can't say that one form of gaming is "better" than the other, for me it's about enjoying the games rather than chasing technology. Been there, done that.
PhilboSE said:
tonyb1968 said:
There is no boasting about PC gaming, it just is better than console gaming, full stop.
What I was saying about PC gaming is that a lot of people seem to be actually more concerned about getting high framerates at increasingly higher resolutions, and spend huge amounts of time and money trying to do so, rather than actually playing the game.PCs can have better graphics, no argument, but is it better gaming, that's debateable IMO.
tonyb1968 said:
Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
This kind of proves my point. Firstly, I've not played it, but I understand Cyberpunk 2077 isn't a great game. When I play games I'm interested in enjoying the game. Great graphics can help make the game, but if the game is bad then no sugary coating is going to help it. Secondly, is it any surprise that a brand new game doesn't run well on 5 year old hardware? How well do you think it will run on a 5 year old PC? Thirdly, by your own admission it runs "great" on a PS5, you couldn't even buy a comparable PC GPU for the price of a PS5 (if either of them was actually available!)tonyb1968 said:
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Calling it "entry level gaming" sounds a bit like snobbery to me. In most cases the game experience will be identical on a £400 console vs a £1500 PC. Spending £2000-£3000 on a gaming PC will let you run the same game at higher resolutions/framerates. Personally 60fps is plenty for me, I struggle with the obsession over 120fps and higher. But games that aren't AAA won't necessarily have a better engine or textures or models that will actually take advantage of the higher resolution. You have more pixels, but the gaming experience is actually the same.tonyb1968 said:
Native 4k.
Again. you're equating resolution with gaming. This may or may not be important for the individual or the game. The screen I game on isn't 4k, so not an issue. And anyone who plays an action shooter (single player or online) and says that 4k is important is kidding themselves. The action is so quick you never even see the extra detail.tonyb1968 said:
Ray Tracing.
I'm awaiting evidence that ray tracing actually improves the game. I haven't seen it first hand, but the screen shots I've seen aren't compelling. Different, yes, but better? Not sure. As I've said, I'm still actually astonished with what state of the art engines can do even on previous gen hardware (which didn't even have the latest and greatest GPUs when they were released) on consoles.tonyb1968 said:
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Again, this supports my point rather than proves yours. I don't want to be fiddling with a million different graphical controls to find out the combination that isn't underselling my PC hardware and yet doesn't turn into a slideshow as soon as the action or detail hots up. I have no idea what combination of resolution, model detail, shader quality, anisotropic filtering, antialiasing and all the other gumpf will actually be best for a given game on my PC hardware. I'll probably ratchet them down a bit because if my framerate suddenly drops to 10fps during a boss fight that's going to be a far bigger impact on my gaming experience than a slightly unaliased edge detail. On a console I know that the dev and QA team will have tuned and tested everything so that my hardware is being pushed to the max without impacting my gaming experience.Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
tonyb1968 said:
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
No argument, I even made that point in my original statement. You think I'm attacking PC gaming and/or can't see that it can be technically more advanced, I'm not, I'm making the observation that some PC gamers seem to end up chasing higher and higher resolutions and framerates for their own sake.Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
tonyb1968 said:
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
Sorry but I think you are way off the mark here. PC hardware gets superceded in some way every month. A console remains as relevant from the day it was released until the day it gets replaced with a new model - 4 to 5 years. In the PC world there is something new and better all the time, and often it requires large scale changes.PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
Case in point: my PC motherboard failed this week. It was completely fine for what I needed to use it for, but can I just replace the motherboard? Nope, no-one makes motherboards for my CPU socket any more, so I have to buy a new motherboard AND a new CPU. AND a new heatsink cooler, because the mounting brackets are different again. Oh AND another 16Gb of DDR4 RAM because my old motherboard was DDR3. So now I have to spend a couple of days doing a crash course on available CPUs, working out AMD or Intel, what generation of chip offers what features etc. Then I have to buy the RAM, but no you can't just buy 16Gb DDR4, you have to work out if MHz speed you want (and if it will actually make any detectable difference to the performance of the system at all) and then start stressing that your PC4-28800 18-22-22-42 memory will be better or worse than XMP 2.0 20-20-20-50 memory. Or whether the 100% price difference between them is worth it.
So to remove some of the variables I buy a mobo and CPU bundle based on a Ryzen 3 5600X, and some "Ryzen optimised" DDR4. And then I find out that I shouldn't have bought the motherboard because it "only" has a B450 chipset and not an X570 and that means I won't be able to benefit from PCIe 4.0 and faster memory addressing to the latest Radeon GPU. Really I should have spent an extra £100 on the motherboard to future proof myself. Until the next innovation comes out and obsoletes me again.
So I plug in my 7 year old GTX 770 and for some reason there's lines all over the screen. In disturbing it from the case it's had a terminal event and it too now needs replacing. Oh well, it did 7 years so I should be able to replace it with a card that's a couple of years old for about £200 and it should be about 10 times better right? Well, no, because there are barely any GPUs available, the cheapest ones available are about £450 and according to benchmark sites they score less than 3 times more than my 7 year old card that cost me £200 back then! WTF! And then I have to spend another evening educating myself about the various different GPUs, trying to work out red or green, and whether a faster card from the previous generation (or two) would actually be better for me than a slower card from a later generation. And whether I'm actually going to buy and/or play any games which would actually utilise the hardware any better. And then I need to work out if my CPU is even well matched for my GPU, and I have a balanced system, or if my super expensive GPU will now be idling away waiting for the rest of the system to feed it with data.
(all of the above is 100% true, I'm typing this now on the new machine. Not yet dropped the cash on a new GPU, I think I'd like a 2060 but I'd rather be paying the MSRP of £270 rather than the £450 they're selling for, when they're available, which they're not).
tonyb1968 said:
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
A highly specified PC is of course a much more capable machine than a console. I didn't assert otherwise so you're contesting a point I didn't make. However, "PC longevity" is a joke, they are superceded and obsoleted far more quickly than a console unless you continually spend huge amounts of money to keep yourself at the bleeding edge.Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
Also I think you confuse "best gaming experience" with "technically best hardware". My "best gaming experience" is if I can just turn on the console, pick up and enjoy a game, without continually stressing about whether I should fiddle with the gfx settings in case I'm shortchanging my specific PC configuration. And of course many games are about the gameplay not the graphics - which is as it should be. To me it's far less important to be able to say "hey look at me I'm running Cyberpunk 2077 in 4k at max detail at 120fps" than it is to say "hey look at me I'm really enjoying playing Days Gone on my console".
Sometimes this stuff makes a real difference. PC's can have technically the best hardware - at a ridiculous cost to get to that level and stay there - and for some experiences only a PC will do, but if you just want to enjoy games then modern console hardware isn't going to hold you back for 99% of gamers and it's misplaced to dismiss it so sniffily as "entry level gaming". I'd assert that most "entry level gamers" on a PS5 are actually experiencing better hardware being better utilised than all but the PC gaming elite who have systems that cost them £3000+.
We're lucky to have both options, you can't say that one form of gaming is "better" than the other, for me it's about enjoying the games rather than chasing technology. Been there, done that.
I spent years on PC gaming and loved it at the time - I relished the thought of tweaking a few overclocking settings, hacking a config file or trying the latest beta graphics card setting. Half of the time I'd get a minuscule performance gain, but a much higher chance of the game crashing.
I finally gave up when I relalised how much much money and time I was spending chasing the PC gaming nirvana. I thought nothing of spending multiple £100's on a new graphics cars - which then led to new RAM as that was the bottleneck, then a more powerful PSU. Etc etc.
All so I could have the best quality - all whilst sat in an office chair next to my (by now, ridiculously noisy) PC.
It became boring, tiring and and a waste my limited available gaming time.
Now I sit on a comfy sofa, with a massive TV and great sound system without worrying about all that.
If someone wants to invest the time and money on it, that's great, its completely up to them, but to say 'PC is the best gaming experience' is deluded.
Edited by Big Nanas on Tuesday 6th July 14:39
tonyb1968 said:
There is no boasting about PC gaming, it just is better than console gaming, full stop.
Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Native 4k.
The latest consoles can run native 4K (Xbox One X could and PS4 Pro, PS4 can't), but even native 4k won't run all the time on a console, it will upscale from as low as 720p, if you set a PC to not upscale and to run 4K resolution, then that is what it does.
Ray Tracing.
Again, more compromises with the latest consoles, on the PC you set that to quality and it stays on quality, consoles will adjust it automatically and you will lose detail, but it is done very well so noticing it will be difficult unless you are specifically looking for it, PC, no issues, its just great all the time with no compromise.
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
I have all the consoles and a PC, I split my time between console and PC gaming fairly equally, maybe more time on the PC than anything else these days, so I guess I could call myself a PC gamer more than anything. Despite the points you make, I still don't think PC is a default "best gaming experience", but it's fine to disagree.Lets look at Cyberpunk 2077, its a PS5 title and in reality, runs great on that, but sucks on PS4 Pro and PS4, but even the PS5 version is not as good as a PC with a mid range card, even 2 generations back, so a 10 series card.
Console is entry level gaming, if people cannot understand what that means, its easy, you pay £400 and you can game, you get decent graphics and a decent cpu, it all comes in one tidy package, but there are many compromises that go with it that you really do not get on a PC, so lets look at them.
Native 4k.
The latest consoles can run native 4K (Xbox One X could and PS4 Pro, PS4 can't), but even native 4k won't run all the time on a console, it will upscale from as low as 720p, if you set a PC to not upscale and to run 4K resolution, then that is what it does.
Ray Tracing.
Again, more compromises with the latest consoles, on the PC you set that to quality and it stays on quality, consoles will adjust it automatically and you will lose detail, but it is done very well so noticing it will be difficult unless you are specifically looking for it, PC, no issues, its just great all the time with no compromise.
Graphical settings.
Consoles cannot even compete here, a PC will have far more adjustment in how you set your graphics over a console, be that TAA, Ray tracing, FSR, DLSS etc.
Games.
Far more titles available on PC over consoles, sorry.
Hardware.
PC hardware has a far longer shelf life over a console, you see that even now, for example, cyberpunk 2077, recommended cards are a 1060, so a card that was mid range when it came out in 2016, minimum is noted as a 700 series card (780), this is a 2013 released GPU, and where the PS4 was also a 2013 release, even Sony tell you not to buy Cyberpunk 2077 due to poor performance.
So consoles suck right?
Well no, they give you exactly what you want for entry level gaming, good price, a fair few compromises which have quite a few innovative software touches (upscaling etc) to improve performance whilst still giving you a good overall gaming experience, but for the price, you really are not getting PC quality, PC ability, flexibility or PC longevity, and console gamers don't seem to understand this.
If you want the best gaming experience, PC gaming is the way to go (as long as you avoid all the imported console games, they really are not that good on PC's), but you will pay considerably more for it.
Unfortunately, the way you make your points does rather make you look like a fart-sniffing elitist and is part of the reason console gamers laugh at us.
I could (and maybe should) start a new topic. My son (12) is taking an interest in PC based gaming, we have a couple of (not in any way powerful) consoles at home and he is keen to build his own budget gaming PC. I am happy to support him because I think he will learn something. Budget is probably laughably low, about 800-900€. He already knows he won't be building an amazing set-up.
Is this a silly idea?
Is this a silly idea?
Kawasicki said:
Is this a silly idea?
Great idea. Will give him the confidence to tweak/upgrade in the future. Parts are expensive (graphics cards in particular) at the moment.
There’s a thread on here with knowledgeable folk. I found this site very useful;
https://pcpartpicker.com/
(Edit: no, graphics card prices are absurd)
Edited by Mr E on Tuesday 6th July 17:31
J4CKO said:
Welshbeef said:
How does the Xbox series x work with the LG OLED G1 screen? Is this the best screen and gaming console setup?
Plug the HDMI cable in, that usually does the trick.No I mean is that the best possible screen (bar 8k) for gaming and Xbox series x or have I missed something.
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