New sim coming to PC, should be good!

[FourWheelDrift]

I have as well (but not the cars we race with here in these sims, chance would be a fine thing) but for me with PC sims it's the right force feedback through the steering wheel to make it seem as if the car is doing and reacting how it should and as quickly as it should, nothing worse that steering FF lag. The later Toca games never did it in that department for me.

[D_Mike]

I've raced karts pretty extensively but never been in a race car. Not really that comparable to cars though.

[AJLintern]

I think in terms of how realistic it can be while sitting at a desk, obviously some will be better than others. There must be part of the brain which will operate in the same way and so give the same feelings. If the car does what you would expect it to under particular conditions, that is what adds realism - though the sense of speed must be different as you don't have the same depth perception while looking at a 2d monitor. I think a 3d headset would make quite a difference

[alexpez]

Yep, raced and lapped in all manner of cars in all manner of conditions (yet to try ice racing, but its on my list )

I like to know that the properties of the cars in these sims are as accurate as possible, and mods are rarely technically accurate (although they can and do look nice).

The Porsche Carrera Cup mod for rFactor for instance has its engine in the wrong end, because they couldnt get the car to handle "as they imagined" the real world car would handle when they placed it in the boot (i cant get any sound out of that mod so im not an expert on its inacuracies, but it looked very nice). They had to fudge the cars properties to make it handle as they imagined it to handle, which either indicates their data was incorrect or there were problems with the physics engine behind the game. Im more inclined to believe its the data the mod team acquired. With no budget, and little or no contact with Porsche, how could they hope to get anything more accurate than a best guess with it?

Thats the case with the majority of mods. Fun? yes. Accurate? rarely.

Force Feedback has its problems, but they invariably come down to Immersions technology patent that stops anyone else from even thinking about creating a computer controlled controller! Every manufacturer of force feedback wheels has to buy the technology from Immersion, and its not great. Lag is pretty inherent in it. Some software is pretty good at controlling it, but it would be better if they didnt have the patent.

Theres a servo motor controlled platform for racing sims that keys off real time game telemetry (and produces quicker actions than an immersion based force feedback wheel!) over here www.force-dynamics.com thats pretty cool to see!

pez

[lockstock2sb]

thats the kit i was talking about - that would be an excellent way to appreciate the physics of a car (providing its been done properly )

[pvapour]

stig said:

As a matter of interest, how many of you have driven a race car in anger to compare the physics?

alexpez said:

Yep, raced and lapped in all manner of cars in all manner of conditions (yet to try ice racing, but its on my list ) pez

Did this against the clock in Sweden on a frozen lake a couple of weeks back, definatly the most fun I've had in any type of race car, and weirdly enough Stig Blonquvist himself was there waiting to test for the swedish rally, next day, I think he was going to test that day but was a little shy after seeing my sideways skills

Great fun, have a go....... www.pistonheads.tv/play.asp?id=710

sry for hyjack, just reading, as I'd be way out of my depth debating the mechanics

I would say though, moding a game is esential to keeping that particular game alive and the private sector seem to be very good at it.....

[TonyToniTone]

alexpez said:

The Porsche Carrera Cup mod for rFactor for instance has its engine in the wrong end, because they couldnt get the car to handle "as they imagined" the real world car would handle when they placed it in the boot (i cant get any sound out of that mod so im not an expert on its inacuracies, but it looked very nice). They had to fudge the cars properties to make it handle as they imagined it to handle, which either indicates their data was incorrect or there were problems with the physics engine behind the game. Im more inclined to believe its the data the mod team acquired.

I think they just made a mistake and all the testers missed it.. I think the couldnt get the right feel line is a bit of spin..

[alexpez]

The original release had the engine in the front as when they tried the engine in the back, the mod just understeered all the time. This is the version that is most widely used because people enjoy it and deem the physics to more "911" like.

Theres a mod to the mod now called the R&D PCC Mod (mod), which places the engine in the back, but it understeeres like a dog apparently.

Understeer isnt a handling characteristic id normally associate with 911s

pez

>> Edited by alexpez on Thursday 16th February 17:08

[D_Mike]

that's nonsense, 911s understeer loads, its just that once you get the back sliding its pretty hard to stop (er, in my sim experience).

[alexpez]

Now this is a cool video! (both related to 911s and to snow )

http://pepe.me.uk/gtir/Nurb/nordschle

pez

>> Edited by alexpez on Thursday 16th February 17:48

>> Edited by alexpez on Thursday 16th February 17:50

[pvapour]

alexpez said:

Now this is a cool video! (both related to 911s and to snow ) http://pepe.me.uk/gtir/Nurb/nordschle pez

911s leave me cold i'm afraid, all the ones i've driven feel like they have a fith wheel supporting the centre of the car and the whole thing pivots on it, nasty car IMO

were you driving the car in this video then Alex? if so, then it is cool

[alexpez]

I wish it was! The guy at the beginning is Walter Rohl giving it plenty, and the guy on the snow is Tim Schrick, who does alot of german tv (and appears to be pretty quick!)

pez

[c6erb]

UncleDave said:

Fair enough, never tried any TOCAs up to yet... might give it a try if I rake some change together

They are selling brand new copies of TOCA Race Driver on Amazon for £0.89.

www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/detail/offer-listing/-/B00005V12K/new/ref=olp_pg_new/203-9655928-7859959