Shrinking/lightening my camera kit - Fuji X series?
Discussion
MysteryLemon said:
worse than FF camera... Of course, Most Mirrorless cameras are APS-C or 4/3 Sized sensors so that's pretty obvious.
ergonomics.. Depends what you buy. Sure, the silly retro fuji things aren't as comfortable to hold as a modern, full sized DSLR, but then there are plenty of DSLR styled Mirrorless cameras. Look at the Lumix G range. I agree, my Lumix GX1 isn't as comfortable as a full sized DSLR but then you get used to it and it's fine for me.
battery life... Depends what you buy. yes, using a full sized LCD screen all the time can draw battery power but then most modern DSLRs have an always on LCD screen showing shooting info anyway, so it doesn't make all that much difference. The Battery in my GX1 lasts plenty.
Viewfinder... We yes, they do lack in Optical View Finders but then you can always get a camera with an electronic view finder. I miss my optical view finder but I'm more than happy using the screen to shoot. A camera with a tilty screen would be even better. If you can't live without an optical view finder then Mirrorless isn't for you. I would love to know the reasons you thin you can't though...
Image Quality... How so? Mirrorless cameras have the exact same sensors that their DSLR counterparts have. They produce exactly the same image quality that the equivelant DSLR would. Again, compacing an APS-C sensor to a FF sensor isn't really fair in this case.
Auto Focus... I think you'll find the opposite actually. My GX-1 is faster at focusing in both good and dim light than any DSLR I've ever owned. The only drawback is that it's not great with fast moving subjects. It's not bad. The AF-F mode on the GX1 is great. A lot of newer Mirrorless cameras now have phase detection built into the sensor so they're catching up DSLRs with moving subjects but still better for stills, and never any problem with front/back focusing either as there's no mirror to f
k it up!
low light performance... Same as image quality really. How so? Same sensor as the equivelant DSLR, so how can it perform worse? Comparing it to full frame again?
I see where you're coming from. As an enthusiastic camera user, it's been programmed into my head that a DSLR is the best of the best and the only camera worth having. Anyone still thinking this really needs to take a step back and look at whats on offer these days. A mirrorless camera is not a downgrade on a DSLR. They are just as good, and better in some respects. The continuous AF is getting there now. It wont be long before it's there or even better than current DSLRs. The contrast detect AF is already quicker (for the Lumix and Olympus ranges) than most DSLRs anyway.
My point was all compared to 5D which OP already owns. Not to crop sensor DSLRsergonomics.. Depends what you buy. Sure, the silly retro fuji things aren't as comfortable to hold as a modern, full sized DSLR, but then there are plenty of DSLR styled Mirrorless cameras. Look at the Lumix G range. I agree, my Lumix GX1 isn't as comfortable as a full sized DSLR but then you get used to it and it's fine for me.
battery life... Depends what you buy. yes, using a full sized LCD screen all the time can draw battery power but then most modern DSLRs have an always on LCD screen showing shooting info anyway, so it doesn't make all that much difference. The Battery in my GX1 lasts plenty.
Viewfinder... We yes, they do lack in Optical View Finders but then you can always get a camera with an electronic view finder. I miss my optical view finder but I'm more than happy using the screen to shoot. A camera with a tilty screen would be even better. If you can't live without an optical view finder then Mirrorless isn't for you. I would love to know the reasons you thin you can't though...
Image Quality... How so? Mirrorless cameras have the exact same sensors that their DSLR counterparts have. They produce exactly the same image quality that the equivelant DSLR would. Again, compacing an APS-C sensor to a FF sensor isn't really fair in this case.
Auto Focus... I think you'll find the opposite actually. My GX-1 is faster at focusing in both good and dim light than any DSLR I've ever owned. The only drawback is that it's not great with fast moving subjects. It's not bad. The AF-F mode on the GX1 is great. A lot of newer Mirrorless cameras now have phase detection built into the sensor so they're catching up DSLRs with moving subjects but still better for stills, and never any problem with front/back focusing either as there's no mirror to f
k it up!low light performance... Same as image quality really. How so? Same sensor as the equivelant DSLR, so how can it perform worse? Comparing it to full frame again?
I see where you're coming from. As an enthusiastic camera user, it's been programmed into my head that a DSLR is the best of the best and the only camera worth having. Anyone still thinking this really needs to take a step back and look at whats on offer these days. A mirrorless camera is not a downgrade on a DSLR. They are just as good, and better in some respects. The continuous AF is getting there now. It wont be long before it's there or even better than current DSLRs. The contrast detect AF is already quicker (for the Lumix and Olympus ranges) than most DSLRs anyway.
Edited by MysteryLemon on Monday 27th January 09:47
Craikeybaby said:
If I go for a compact system it will be Fuji, as they seem to be aimed at photographers, rather than consumers like a lot of the other systems. As you say, I've already got a Canon body, so it makes sense to use that first.
I'd take a serious look at m4/3 systems as well. You sacrifice a small amount of sensor size (mainly due to the squarer format) but the pay-off is that the lenses can be quite a bit smaller as a result. If I was looking for a compact system, I'd have an OM-D as my serious camera plus a PEN PL5 (or similar) as a lightweight carry and then a selection of lenses that can be shared between the two.
I've been using the Pancake lens on my 5D for a few months now and actually find it a better focal length to work with than my 50mm lens, which only really gets used for low light stuff now.
So I'm glad I spent £100 on a lens to make my existing set up smaller, rather than 3 or 4 times that go buy into a new system.
So I'm glad I spent £100 on a lens to make my existing set up smaller, rather than 3 or 4 times that go buy into a new system.
rottie102 said:
That thing is massive! I'd much rather stick to 5D with 40mm
It is massive for a compact yet it's still considerably smaller and weighs just over half the DSLR you mentioned and beats the 5D & 40mm in the IQ department at every focal length except 40mmI have a 5D mk2 and L lenses and have no qualms at all about leaving it at home to travel with the G1-X, actually one thing is I wish it had a wider lens. Ok so it doesnt quite compete with the 5D in terms of IQ but the images are good enough to be published on a DPS in magazines, large enough prints to win competitions and accepted by stock image libraries and when you're walking around all day especially in hotter climes the weight of a DSLR becomes a burden.
The fuji CSCs are a step up again from the G1X, I think you 'd be surprised at how close cameras like the XT1 can run FF DSLRs
Edited by JustinMinns on Monday 23 June 19:24
JustinMinns said:
It is massive for a compact yet it's still considerably smaller and weighs just over half the DSLR you mentioned and beats the 5D & 40mm in the IQ department at every focal length except 40mm
I have a 5D mk2 and L lenses and have no qualms at all about leaving it at home to travel with the G1-X, actually one thing is I wish it had a wider lens. Ok so it doesnt quite compete with the 5D in terms of IQ but the images are good enough to be published on a DPS in magazines, large enough prints to win competitions and accepted by stock image libraries and when you're walking around all day especially in hotter climes the weight of a DSLR becomes a burden.
The fuji CSCs are a step up again from the G1X, I think you 'd be surprised at how close cameras like the XT1 can run FF DSLRs
That's why it's all about personal choices. I have a 5D mk2 and L lenses and have no qualms at all about leaving it at home to travel with the G1-X, actually one thing is I wish it had a wider lens. Ok so it doesnt quite compete with the 5D in terms of IQ but the images are good enough to be published on a DPS in magazines, large enough prints to win competitions and accepted by stock image libraries and when you're walking around all day especially in hotter climes the weight of a DSLR becomes a burden.
The fuji CSCs are a step up again from the G1X, I think you 'd be surprised at how close cameras like the XT1 can run FF DSLRs
Edited by JustinMinns on Monday 23 June 19:24
I prefer to spend stupid amounts of money on gear and then carry all this crap around in order to get BEST RESULTS POSSIBLE. Not just GOOD ENOUGH...People win competitions with iPhone photos. I couldn't care less...
Trust me I've tried few times. Got stung and lost money every time trying to find the replacement for a big DSLR that would satisfy me. I bought NEX 6 with Zeiss lenses etc, sold it all at a big loss after a week. I bought 70D, same thing etc
In My Opinion and For My Needs (that's the important bit) NOTHING beats Full Frame DSLRs. They are big, heavy, expensive, so are the lenses but there's always something wrong with the competition that stops me from changing.
rottie102 said:
That's why it's all about personal choices.
I prefer to spend stupid amounts of money on gear and then carry all this crap around in order to get BEST RESULTS POSSIBLE. Not just GOOD ENOUGH...People win competitions with iPhone photos. I couldn't care less...
Trust me I've tried few times. Got stung and lost money every time trying to find the replacement for a big DSLR that would satisfy me. I bought NEX 6 with Zeiss lenses etc, sold it all at a big loss after a week. I bought 70D, same thing etc
In My Opinion and For My Needs (that's the important bit) NOTHING beats Full Frame DSLRs. They are big, heavy, expensive, so are the lenses but there's always something wrong with the competition that stops me from changing.
Actually the important bit is that the OP wants a smaller alternative to a big heavy DSLR I prefer to spend stupid amounts of money on gear and then carry all this crap around in order to get BEST RESULTS POSSIBLE. Not just GOOD ENOUGH...People win competitions with iPhone photos. I couldn't care less...
Trust me I've tried few times. Got stung and lost money every time trying to find the replacement for a big DSLR that would satisfy me. I bought NEX 6 with Zeiss lenses etc, sold it all at a big loss after a week. I bought 70D, same thing etc
In My Opinion and For My Needs (that's the important bit) NOTHING beats Full Frame DSLRs. They are big, heavy, expensive, so are the lenses but there's always something wrong with the competition that stops me from changing.
The "mirrorless" thread has got me thinking about my camera kit again, especially as 4 years on mirrorless systems are becoming more common. I've also had a few lifestyle changes - travelling is out, mountain bikes and kids are in!
I still have my 5D, although I can't remember the last time I used the pancake lens. I swapped the 17-40L for a 24-105L, which has practically stayed on the front of the camera. I'm at work, so don't have access to my Lightroom catalogue, but expect I've only taken a handful of photos on my 70-200. My Canon S90 has come out of the forgotten technology drawer and I have been taking it out with me on bike rides. I think the quality is on par with my iPhone 7, but the zoom lens makes composition better. It is bloody slow though.
I think now might be the sweetspot to chop in my DSLR gear, probably keeping my 20D and one lens, and move to mirrorless. I'm pretty sure that I'll get better AF and something that will be small/light enough to take out on my bike, and hopefully fast enough to use to take pictures of my mates. What I'm unsure about, is what the image quality will be like - you don't get many comparisons between new consumer cameras and 10 year old professional cameras!
Unfortunately my budget (aka value of my existing kit) won't stretch to the soon to be announced Canon FF mirrorless, or even the Sony A7 series which seem to be getting a lot of positive press. I've looked at the Canon M series - specifically the M6, which I would pair with the 18-55 lens and the 22mm pancake lens. Even without remembering this thread I went back to the Fuji X series, initially the X-T20, then the X-E3. They both look similar, but the X-E3 seems to be smaller and has a Bluetooth connection. Does anyone have any experience of these models? Do you think it is a good idea?
I'm off on holiday at the end of next week, so it would be a good opportunity to spend some time with the new camera/system.
I still have my 5D, although I can't remember the last time I used the pancake lens. I swapped the 17-40L for a 24-105L, which has practically stayed on the front of the camera. I'm at work, so don't have access to my Lightroom catalogue, but expect I've only taken a handful of photos on my 70-200. My Canon S90 has come out of the forgotten technology drawer and I have been taking it out with me on bike rides. I think the quality is on par with my iPhone 7, but the zoom lens makes composition better. It is bloody slow though.
I think now might be the sweetspot to chop in my DSLR gear, probably keeping my 20D and one lens, and move to mirrorless. I'm pretty sure that I'll get better AF and something that will be small/light enough to take out on my bike, and hopefully fast enough to use to take pictures of my mates. What I'm unsure about, is what the image quality will be like - you don't get many comparisons between new consumer cameras and 10 year old professional cameras!
Unfortunately my budget (aka value of my existing kit) won't stretch to the soon to be announced Canon FF mirrorless, or even the Sony A7 series which seem to be getting a lot of positive press. I've looked at the Canon M series - specifically the M6, which I would pair with the 18-55 lens and the 22mm pancake lens. Even without remembering this thread I went back to the Fuji X series, initially the X-T20, then the X-E3. They both look similar, but the X-E3 seems to be smaller and has a Bluetooth connection. Does anyone have any experience of these models? Do you think it is a good idea?
I'm off on holiday at the end of next week, so it would be a good opportunity to spend some time with the new camera/system.
I've fired up Lightroom and looked at how much I have used various lenses this year:
24-105 - 129 shots, more than half at 105mm
50mm - 51 shots, only used on 3 separate occasions, however these are probably my favourite shots of the year.
70-200 - 1 shot, out of the upstairs window. I don't think the lens has left the house.
40mm - 0 shots!
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to go for a Fuji system, either the X-T20 or the X-E2. The 18-55 should cover my walk about stuff, albeit missing out at the telephoto end. One of the 23mm or 35mm primes will cover the fast prime shots.
24-105 - 129 shots, more than half at 105mm
50mm - 51 shots, only used on 3 separate occasions, however these are probably my favourite shots of the year.
70-200 - 1 shot, out of the upstairs window. I don't think the lens has left the house.
40mm - 0 shots!
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to go for a Fuji system, either the X-T20 or the X-E2. The 18-55 should cover my walk about stuff, albeit missing out at the telephoto end. One of the 23mm or 35mm primes will cover the fast prime shots.
Craikeybaby said:
I've fired up Lightroom and looked at how much I have used various lenses this year:
24-105 - 129 shots, more than half at 105mm
50mm - 51 shots, only used on 3 separate occasions, however these are probably my favourite shots of the year.
70-200 - 1 shot, out of the upstairs window. I don't think the lens has left the house.
40mm - 0 shots!
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to go for a Fuji system, either the X-T20 or the X-E2. The 18-55 should cover my walk about stuff, albeit missing out at the telephoto end. One of the 23mm or 35mm primes will cover the fast prime shots.
I've got X-T2 (and X100F) and had X-T1/X-E2 etc, my wife has the X-T20. The latter is a cracking camera and very good value for money. Don't forget good deals often are to be had at the Fuji Refurb shop, https://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/digital-cameras/refurb...24-105 - 129 shots, more than half at 105mm
50mm - 51 shots, only used on 3 separate occasions, however these are probably my favourite shots of the year.
70-200 - 1 shot, out of the upstairs window. I don't think the lens has left the house.
40mm - 0 shots!
I've pretty much decided that I'm going to go for a Fuji system, either the X-T20 or the X-E2. The 18-55 should cover my walk about stuff, albeit missing out at the telephoto end. One of the 23mm or 35mm primes will cover the fast prime shots.
I've no direct experinec of X-E3 (but have at X-E2), and unless you are desperate for the Bluetooth, then the X-T"0 with its tilting rear screen is the better handling camera.
I've got the XT20, It's a cracking camera and the kit lens is a step above what people normally expect from a kit lens.
Omar Gonzalez on YouTube loves his XT-20 and has loads of videos about the pros and cons of the various lenses (he's a pro photographer who uses a 5D for work) so you may want to check him out before committing.
Omar Gonzalez on YouTube loves his XT-20 and has loads of videos about the pros and cons of the various lenses (he's a pro photographer who uses a 5D for work) so you may want to check him out before committing.
DavidY said:
I've got X-T2 (and X100F) and had X-T1/X-E2 etc, my wife has the X-T20. The latter is a cracking camera and very good value for money. Don't forget good deals often are to be had at the Fuji Refurb shop, https://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/digital-cameras/refurb...
I've no direct experinec of X-E3 (but have at X-E2), and unless you are desperate for the Bluetooth, then the X-T"0 with its tilting rear screen is the better handling camera.
Thanks, I’ve been doing a lot of research over he past few days and decided to make the switch. I've no direct experinec of X-E3 (but have at X-E2), and unless you are desperate for the Bluetooth, then the X-T"0 with its tilting rear screen is the better handling camera.
Thinking I had settled on the X-T20 I then saw that my local camera shop have an offer of half price prime lens with an X-E3 kit. They also have offers on the X-T2, I guess because of the imminent X-T3 announcement. That now brings the X-T2 just about into reach.
I’m a bit torn at the moment, as the key role for the camera is to go in my rucksack when mountain biking, so the smaller/lighter X-T20 makes sense. However, I’ll be out in all weathers, riding rough terrain, so the more robust X-T2 may be a better option. Hopefully it will make sense when I have them both in my hands.
Thanks for the link to the Fuji refurb shop, if I wasn’t planning on walking in to LCE with my Canon kit and walking out with Fuji kit that is what I’d be doing. A refurb lens may mitigate the half price prime lens on the X-E3 offer, except that the 23f2 is out of stock.
FunkyNige said:
I've got the XT20, It's a cracking camera and the kit lens is a step above what people normally expect from a kit lens.
Omar Gonzalez on YouTube loves his XT-20 and has loads of videos about the pros and cons of the various lenses (he's a pro photographer who uses a 5D for work) so you may want to check him out before committing.
Thanks, I have come across his stuff. For me the kit lens is a no brainer!Omar Gonzalez on YouTube loves his XT-20 and has loads of videos about the pros and cons of the various lenses (he's a pro photographer who uses a 5D for work) so you may want to check him out before committing.
I have the X-T20 after selling my 5D mk III and L lenses last year. Couldn't be happier with the switch.
I have 4 lenses:
The 16mm f1.4 - an amazing lens which for the landscape photos that I take is near perfect. It also has a really short focal distance so is surprisingly useful for sub-macro shots
The 27mm pancake. Makes the camera not much bigger than a point and shoot, is cheap and produces decent shots
The 35mm f2 - with the 27mm the lens I'm most likely to take out if I'm just taking one lens
The 90mm - quite new (to me) and used mostly for landscape detail shots.
All together they fit in a Billingham Hadley Small. with a few filters, batteries, cards etc. I think I'd have had the 5d plus one lens (not the 70-200) in the Hadley.
Images are of similar quality to the canon, at least for the size of prints I do.
A couple of sample shots taken near home
I have 4 lenses:
The 16mm f1.4 - an amazing lens which for the landscape photos that I take is near perfect. It also has a really short focal distance so is surprisingly useful for sub-macro shots
The 27mm pancake. Makes the camera not much bigger than a point and shoot, is cheap and produces decent shots
The 35mm f2 - with the 27mm the lens I'm most likely to take out if I'm just taking one lens
The 90mm - quite new (to me) and used mostly for landscape detail shots.
All together they fit in a Billingham Hadley Small. with a few filters, batteries, cards etc. I think I'd have had the 5d plus one lens (not the 70-200) in the Hadley.
Images are of similar quality to the canon, at least for the size of prints I do.
A couple of sample shots taken near home
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