Copyright Claim - Sounds Dodgy

Copyright Claim - Sounds Dodgy

Author
Discussion

Simpo Two

76,751 posts

237 months

Saturday 3rd March 2018
quotequote all
If you can contact the photographer directly then I'd do so, and ask him if he's ever heard of 'photo-defender.com'. If he says 'Yes, they sort my stuff out' then it starts to add up. If he's never heard of them or doesn't use them you've got your first scam warning.

If it's real you might be able to cut out the middleman. Looking at the breakdown the actual copyright part is 465 euros. You could say to the tog 'I'll pay you 700 if you call off the dogs'.

I can't see how they justify 'damages'. If you do have to pay something, I'd be surprised if it wasn't negotiable.

Or just buy the company of course, that will fix it biggrin


NB: Looking at how many times that photo comes up in the search results, this could be a massive money-grabbing operation in which they hope a few mugs fall for it. Are they really going to take everyone to court, win and then enforce payment internationally? Can it be that easy? For the legal side you might want to post on the Business or SPL forum too.

Edited by Simpo Two on Saturday 3rd March 17:52

Lord.Vader

3,851 posts

111 months

Saturday 3rd March 2018
quotequote all
Nothing to add other than German lawyers have set fees generally and theirs will be based off the €6,000 value. Reducing that will reduce their fees.


xjay1337

15,966 posts

90 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
I would just ignore it tbqf.

Sounds dodgy on Email. Take you to court if they want.

rich888

2,610 posts

171 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
It would appear that they are charging you 19% VAT on the invoice.

VAT 19% , § 13 Abs.1 RVG, no. VV 7008

€ 104.69

What is their VAT registration number because you can check that to ensure it's legitimate?

BTW, if there is no VAT number shown on the invoice then they may well be committing the ultimate offence and that is defrauding the revenue department of tax - I wouldn't want to be them if that is the case!

Edited by rich888 on Sunday 4th March 17:53

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

209 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
rich888 said:
It would appear that they are charging you 19% VAT on the invoice.

VAT 19% , § 13 Abs.1 RVG, no. VV 7008

€ 104.69

What is their VAT registration number because you can check that to ensure it's legitimate?
That's the rate in Germany.

and yes, it's valid http://photoclaim.com/en/site-notice/

Ignoring this is not good advice BTW. They are in the EU and so there is a chance the OP could be pursued for any fines and costs a Court might decide to award against him.

Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Sunday 4th March 17:55

rich888

2,610 posts

171 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
FurtiveFreddy said:
rich888 said:
It would appear that they are charging you 19% VAT on the invoice.

VAT 19% , § 13 Abs.1 RVG, no. VV 7008

€ 104.69

What is their VAT registration number because you can check that to ensure it's legitimate?
That's the rate in Germany.
It might be the rate in Germany but in order to charge VAT you have to be registered, otherwise you will be pocketing the 19% and defrauding the tax office!

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

209 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
rich888 said:
It might be the rate in Germany but in order to charge VAT you have to be registered, otherwise you will be pocketing the 19% and defrauding the tax office!
They are registered, I just gave you the link and it is a valid number.

rich888

2,610 posts

171 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=photoclaim....

Whois info
photoclaim.com
Registrant Contact
Name: Nico Trinkhaus
Organization: Nico Trinkhaus
Mailing Address: Schlieperstrasse 27, Berlin Berlin 13507 DE
Phone: +49.3074928406
Ext:
Fax: +49.0000000000
Fax Ext:
Email:nitri@gmx.de

Important Dates
Updated Date: 2017-02-14
Created Date: 2006-11-16
Registrar Expiration Date: 2018-11-16

rich888

2,610 posts

171 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Slightly off topic but it's worthwhile mentioning to anyone that has copied and used a image on their website that they might want to remove it quick and replace it with a photo they have taken.

Many years ago a friend of mine used a small generic shopping cart image on one of his websites and was contacted out of the blue by one of the well known USA based Image companies, they hounded him for several years until he settled with them for several thousand pounds.

It's a bit late now, but never ever use images that you haven't taken yourself, and even then, ensure that you can prove you took the pic because these vultures don't give up. I've even heard instances of folks using images that they purchased on a CD/DVD or as part of a stock website only to be on the receiving end of some legal letter or email which they received several years later.

Simpo Two

76,751 posts

237 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
A quick google shows Nico Trinkhaus to be a travel photographer, not a lawyer, if that's of any significance. Perhaps he can't make a living selling photos of the Taj Mahal any more.

It MIGHT be valid and legal, but I'd still look for any cracks.

Or perhaps the OP can spin it out until next year when we leave the EU...

paul.deitch

1,772 posts

229 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
JulianPH said:
Hi Paul, no link to look at..! Cheers smile
Sorry about that. Life rushes on.. Here is the link https://hoesmann.eu/copyright-infringement-warning...

They are a Germany copyright and IP chambers. Good luck. You call call them and check it out. They speak good English.

MrOrange

1,944 posts

225 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
quotequote all
Make an offer?

I had a similar thing with Getty Images who started at £3k+ but eventually settled for a lot less than that. The use of the image was a genuine mistake, though, not random stealing of images from a Google search.

Simpo Two

76,751 posts

237 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
paul.deitch said:
JulianPH said:
Hi Paul, no link to look at..! Cheers smile
Sorry about that. Life rushes on.. Here is the link https://hoesmann.eu/copyright-infringement-warning...

They are a Germany copyright and IP chambers. Good luck. You call call them and check it out. They speak good English.
Interesting. Like MrOrange I was thinking that an offer might resolve it quickly and finally (and if to the tog, might short-circuit the sender).

I have an idea from somewhere that if you send someone a lower sum of money marked 'final settlement' and they bank it, then that's game over, but I may be wrong.

Then again an offer is probably an admittance of guilt...

It seems a case of 'How lucky do you feel?'

I thnk the OP needs to consult a legal bod.

JohnS

925 posts

256 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
This site and the legal company are very likely to be 100% genuine.

I use a couple of similar sites (copytrack.com and pixsy.com) for tracking and pursuing unauthorised use claims and they typically work on a no-win/no-fee 50/50 basis and give you the option to set your own pricing, or use their pricing. I can confirm that they will pursue legal cases in the UK, but also that they are prepared to negotiate if you present a reasonable case (e.g. photographer normally sells this image for £xx, instead of £xxxx), and that you are happy to pay £xx plus a percentage of the legal fees. At least if it goes to court, you have shown you have made a areasonable offer.

Although they found many matches of my images being used around the world, they only pursue cases where there's a reasonable chance of winning i.e. it's a real business website and not a blog or image sharing website like youtube where the content is uploaded by users.

One option would be to contact the photographer, explain the circumstances saying you are happy to pay his fee for use if he can cancel the case. He will likely have to pay some legal fees so expect it to be more than the fee for the image itself, and he may of course decline.

JulianPH

Original Poster:

9,323 posts

86 months

Monday 5th March 2018
quotequote all
Thanks everyone. It was never my intention to breach copyright. We selected images for a mock-up website and our web designers took them onto the real site.

I am in touch with the photographer.

krisinikol

1 posts

42 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Hello,

I have the same problem: A day ago I received an email from a German lawyer claiming that I have infringed the copyright of the same photographer. The email that you cited and the one I received are almost identical and my immediate reaction was (just like yours) that it's a scam. After a research on the internet I came across this forum topic and decided to contact you for advice. Could you please contact me here or by email how you proceeded? Is the case legitimate?

Thank you.

Nikol

nikkivb

4 posts

36 months

Friday 14th December 2018
quotequote all
I have just had the same email from 'robert.fechner@photography-defender.com' wanting 5000 Euros is there any update if this is genuine or not.

I am just about to get in touch with a UK Lawyer.

Many Thanks

Nikki

JoeFlighter

3 posts

35 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
nikkivb said:
I have just had the same email from 'robert.fechner@photography-defender.com' wanting 5000 Euros is there any update if this is genuine or not.

I am just about to get in touch with a UK Lawyer.

Many Thanks

Nikki
Received the email as well from that same lawyer, but a colleague who resides in the US got the same message (plus a handful more with increasing threats + fees) due to an image on a personal non-commercial website over 2-years ago never responded, as their personal copyright lawyer told them to just remove the image, and not sign anything, as worse come to worse, they can claim fair use as well as countersue for time wasted. Now, 2-years later nothing has happened to them.

superlightr

11,610 posts

235 months

Thursday 10th January 2019
quotequote all
MrOrange said:
Make an offer?

I had a similar thing with Getty Images who started at £3k+ but eventually settled for a lot less than that. The use of the image was a genuine mistake, though, not random stealing of images from a Google search.
Just seen the topic.


We had the same as a business - I had used a couple of Microsoft pics of whatever. Anyway the long and short Getty were getting shirty and demanding lots.


Having studied law at uni (including copyright) but not an expert in copyright I thought fek - ive feked up on this as I thought the pics used were free of copyright and why I used them as they came with Windows.


long story short. We paid nothing. Removed them as soon as I was told they were not free of copy right and wrote to them saying the same and then ignored them. From my research 8 years or so ago - for the UK if you remove the item when asked it was a positive thing, they may only claim for the actual cost of such a thing ie have a look on Bigstock and its pence or a $1 or $3 for a picture to use not hundreds. You are not acting maliciously and acted as soon as you were aware. just remove and confirm the same back. Don't use their form.

I would do the same again if contacted.


Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 14:08

CzechItOut

2,097 posts

163 months

Thursday 10th January 2019
quotequote all
There are some clear attempts to hide the copyright in this instance, but photographers do go to court and do win:

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/WebbvCardiff%20Steel...