How do you make money?

[singlecoil]

satans worm said:

From an outsiders point of view, it seems Vlogging on Youtube and running photography workshops can be lucrative-ish, i watched a Thomas Heaton youtube piece about how to make money from photography, might be worth looking it up.

The best way to make money from photography is by teaching other people how to do it.

It's just the same with handmade furniture making and musical instruments (especially guitars) . There may be a very few with the right contacts and sales channels who can make a bit, but by and large it's the teaching. What bugs me is when they say, or imply, that their students can earn a living actually doing the thing they are teaching.

[Simpo Two]

GetCarter said:

Okay, I'll rise to that. Shutterstock approached me to say they'd like to add a dozen photos of mine to their site. I've already taken the pics, it's a non-exclusive deal, so takes me about 10 minutes to send them the images. I've since made about £1100 from said photos in the past 5 years.

Yes, but you are not the average photographer, and you live in a very scenic area. And even you make only £220 a year from it, presumably less tax at 40%, and Shutterstock take the other 90(?) percent from your skills.

singlecoil said:

The best way to make money from photography is by teaching other people how to do it.

You're probably right. And photography students may learn 'arty bks' but not how to get work or survive in the real world.

A local artist invited me to teach photography as part of some evening class scheme he was setting up. I thought 'No thanks, I can actually do it, I don't need to teach it'.

[GetCarter]

Simpo Two said:

GetCarter said:

Okay, I'll rise to that. Shutterstock approached me to say they'd like to add a dozen photos of mine to their site. I've already taken the pics, it's a non-exclusive deal, so takes me about 10 minutes to send them the images. I've since made about £1100 from said photos in the past 5 years.

Yes, but you are not the average photographer, and you live in a very scenic area. And even you make only £220 a year from it, presumably less tax at 40%, and Shutterstock take the other 90(?) percent from your skills.

Do I care if they take 90%? (it isn't BTW) I'm getting money every month into my account that I wouldn't get otherwise. It's a no brainer. Unless you don't want money of course.

BTW I'll take 'not the average photographer' as a compliment

[DavidY]

singlecoil said:

The best way to make money from photography is by teaching other people how to do it.

I run a number of photography workshops, some under my own name, some under the name of a local shop and some for Fujiholics. I'm not a big name photographer, but I can teach. (I run these as a sideline to main business which is machine vision for automated industrial equipment, so I work with cameras and images all day)

They are though very hit and miss, you cannot tell how many people will sign up for any one workshop, sometimes you are over-subscribed, other times you don't get anyone, or just one person signs up (I've always actually run the workshop even for a single person, that person has usually gone on to attend other workshops or recommend the workshop to others).

Its hard work, and not a great revenue spinner (and requires quite a bit of technical knowledge to get around the menu/function button systems or a wide array of cameras). You also need backup plans in the event of changeable weather, you need to think on your feet and always have options that enable people to go home with some decent images, often from a newly learnt skill.

Interestingly at least 50% of my workshop attendees are women, a group who is largely absent on photography forums (possibly because they are often gear orientated).

I mainly run the workshops as I enjoy it, its great to be able to pass knowledge on, and see the progress of some of the attendees is fantastic. Often I learn from them as well, especially with regard to composition, as take 8 people to a location and you end up with a variety of different shots. From conversations I also learn about other nearby (or not so nearby) locations that maybe I haven't investigated.

[SniktySnikty]

DavidY said:

Interestingly at least 50% of my workshop attendees are women, a group who is largely absent on photography forums (possibly because they are often gear orientated).

I've had the same thought. I used to work in a camera shop many years ago and at least half of all entry/mid level SLR sales went to women. I don't think women have the same need to collect that men do. I've seen it on bicycle forums, PC forums, HiFi forums etc. I see men on forums as little gentoo penguins building their pile of pebbles lol

[DavidY]

SniktySnikty said:

DavidY said:

Interestingly at least 50% of my workshop attendees are women, a group who is largely absent on photography forums (possibly because they are often gear orientated).

I've had the same thought. I used to work in a camera shop many years ago and at least half of all entry/mid level SLR sales went to women. I don't think women have the same need to collect that men do. I've seen it on bicycle forums, PC forums, HiFi forums etc. I see men on forums as little gentoo penguins building their pile of pebbles lol

Not sure its the collecting gene, but there is something in most male psyche that likes to get gear obsessed (applies to any hobby/pastime)!!!!!!

But I also think there is a safety in numbers aspect, some of my workshops are in dubious areas and others are at night, people feel a lot safer when in a group.

Edited by DavidY on Friday 20th July 10:13

[Rogue86]

I work staffed. Many commercial outlets are now cutting back on freelancers, so as a result the rates they are willing to pay are dropping drastically. It also means I don't have to worry about equipment costs, insurance, licences etc. The money I get paid for the work I do is daft, frankly.

It also means I can pick and choose lucrative freelance jobs around it. I shoot automotive, aviation and fashion.

[Xaero]

I used to travel a bit and wanted to make money from photography as well as my travel writing at the time. I only made a few pennies on the stock websites. So I largely found them a waste of time.

Technically I put a few on my website and got money from advertisers on that though. So although not directly selling the photos I indirectly made money from them. You're not going to make money doing this by putting them on FlickR or similar alternatives as they collect all the proceeds on there. Bear in mind this is quite time consuming though, and not auto-money by any stretch of the imagination, you need to spend most of your time promoting the website rather than taking the photos. Average photos with lots of eyeballs on them will make more than spectacular photos with no-one looking at them.

You need to set a business up around your photography if you want to make anything decent out of it in conclusion.

[satans worm]

SniktySnikty said:

. I don't think women have the same need to collect that men do.

Right now I’m looking into the abyss of my girlfriends waldrobe staring at her shoes, I’m pretty sure they have a collector gene going on too!

[SCEtoAUX]

For me it's three words: Who you know.

Regular work for three good clients who just like a reliable bloke who will turn up, take exactly the sort of photos they like, and have them processed/delivered the next day.

I'm not a great photographer, but none of them want great photos. They just want good enough from someone who they can totally rely on.

[steveatesh]

SCEtoAUX said:

For me it's three words: Who you know.

Regular work for three good clients who just like a reliable bloke who will turn up, take exactly the sort of photos they like, and have them processed/delivered the next day.

I'm not a great photographer, but none of them want great photos. They just want good enough from someone who they can totally rely on.

This is so important because you can’t dry clean reputation, as the saying goes.
I run a small business for a very niche market and my starting point is to remember that for me a client represents a transaction but for them it is an end to end experience. I tailor what I do accordingly and get lots of repeat and word of mouth clients.

I’m moving into photography as a business and that is still my guiding philosophy!

[ashleyman]

Rogue86 said:

I work staffed. Many commercial outlets are now cutting back on freelancers, so as a result the rates they are willing to pay are dropping drastically. It also means I don't have to worry about equipment costs, insurance, licences etc. The money I get paid for the work I do is daft, frankly.

It also means I can pick and choose lucrative freelance jobs around it. I shoot automotive, aviation and fashion.

Have you got any tips for someone looking to go from freelance to staffed like you did?

[anonymous-user]

Two things that I personally would find useful:

1 - From a company point of view I sometimes need a good quality photo in a hurry, either a bit of my kit that I need for a tender or something general (that could even be sourced from Shuttercock or whatever they are called), I just want someone I can give a 1 minute brief to and get what I want back for £100 next day. So companies "odd job" photographer?

2 - The family photograph album has many professional family portraits (especially from Victorian times when no one had a camera but every High St had a photographers). Nowadays to call someone who rocks up, does some good pics, without the hassle of going in to town would suit me to complement all the informal smart phone pics. The professional family portrait seems a forgotten thing to me.

Good luck.

[Tony1963]

I'd guess that the formal, professional family portrait has gone way out of fashion, just as many happy couples are choosing informal wedding photos. It's just an ever changing world, and anyone running any business must adapt or die.

I do like the idea of a business being willing to pay decent money for a photo to be ready the next day. Strange to think that nobody is already doing that for you.

[GetCarter]

Tony1963 said:

I do like the idea of a business being willing to pay decent money for a photo to be ready the next day. Strange to think that nobody is already doing that for you.

I do it same day.

[SCEtoAUX]

Tony1963 said:

I do like the idea of a business being willing to pay decent money for a photo to be ready the next day. Strange to think that nobody is already doing that for you.

I also do that already. A typical shoot for me would be a sports day or music/theatre event at the school I work for. They need the photos for marketing, social media, sharing with parents, website, maybe the local newspaper and if I've shot a dress rehearsal, images for the printed programme.

They know by the following morning they'll have the photos I've taken whittled down to the best 80-200 (ish), fully processed in Lightroom and put on their OneDrive account in a nice new folder, containing two sub folders of full resolution and web resolution.

Pretty similar for the other two main clients, though they aren't schools.

[Tony1963]

Thanks for the two posts above.

The one thing I'm going to stop doing now is taking photographs of events I'm not interested in for free. If a racing team invites me along, treats me well, pays entry, gives me food etc, then I'm a happy chappy. But recently I've turned down a couple of things because I just know that there'll be nothing in it for me except spending money on fuel and losing free time at the (valuable) weekends. Followed of course by the evenings of editing!

[bakerstreet]

singlecoil said:

The best way to make money from photography is by teaching other people how to do it.

It's just the same with handmade furniture making and musical instruments (especially guitars) . There may be a very few with the right contacts and sales channels who can make a bit, but by and large it's the teaching. What bugs me is when they say, or imply, that their students can earn a living actually doing the thing they are teaching.

I recently went on a beginners photo day course. It was agift from inlaws and I really enjoyed the course. However the tutor hasn't followed up on his promise of sending the documentation and book recommendations afterwards.

I had a few issues booking the course which was largely down to the people running the course and they then let slip that they make £46 per person on the course, so there isn't much they can offer in the way of flexibility. There were five people on that course.

As for the people who say, I'd rather do it than teaching it'. Some people are good teachers and some aren't. I'm a diving instructor (BSAC) and I was not the most qualified or 'decorated' diver in our club, but I was very good teacher.

This is quite an interesting thread, but I still think it all boils down to 'its not what you know, its who you know'

[Rogue86]

ashleyman said:

Have you got any tips for someone looking to go from freelance to staffed like you did?

It's as simple as looking for any other kind of work really. Having a CV (and/or portfolio preferably) that's relevant and up-to-date and keeping an eye on the job market via sites such as indeed, Linked-In etc. As with many niche roles, it can be very area-dependant - London tends to have lots of work as you would expect, the Midlands tends to be good for automotive roles and further north you're looking at places like Manchester and to a lesser-extent, Leeds.

I began on a very different route though to be honest and started my photography career through the Armed Forces. Not necessarily something I'd recommend for everyone (it can be a very demanding role both mentally and physically) but it's a good way to amass an unusual and broad portfolio in a relatively short space of time - you do work for it though!

[Derek Smith]

Efbe said:

not a photographer but have a few friends heavy into the blogging thing and making a decent living having given up their jobs.

Their biggest issue is finding decent pictures.
With these they post them on pinterest (using a reposting software to keep them going up maybe 2-3 times a day?) then use affiliate links to click through to whatever each one is selling.
Once the initial posts have been made, which are nothing more than an image, a few lines of text and a link, they are there forever so each additional one just adds more to the potential income stream.

I endorse the above.

I'd also suggest article writing. If you can get a few editors on board then you'll have as much work as you want.

The trick is to submit adequate copy. There're only four things required, three for writing: get the copy in on time, write in English and hit the wordage. With that editors will come to you with requests, and you'll get higher rates for solicited manuscripts. Illustrate your articles and you'll get your unsolicited manuscripts accepted at a higher rate.

I ran at 25% initial acceptance. That doesn't mean the rest was of no use as rewriting saves many an article. Once I submitted copy with images, I went up to 75%. If the copy needs three images, then submit eight or nine. A photo editor likes to feel needed. Include a variation. It's all simple stuff.

You will need to help the editor if you become a regular. Include a paragraph that can be excluded without problems, and mark it as such. Also, include a short para that they can include, and where. The layout guy will probably kiss you.

Editors will tell you what they want in one way or another. Follow it, regardless of any of your own desires. You'll be surprised, and no doubt excited, how many writers will say something like: I like it that way. An editor will have the issue planned and your images and subject need to fit.

The type of image is where the skill comes in. You can always bash copy around to fit. Get an overview of whatever it is, then some details, then some alternatives. Colour is important. I once received an article on Ferraris and all cars were red and they all faced the same way. Absolutely useless.

You might think your image is one of the best you've ever taken but don't, under any circumstances, write your copy around it. However, direct your copy according to the images.

As with all photography; plan but keep flexible. If you are wondering whether to take a photo, then take it.

Most magazines go for high quality images. You need a decent camera. You need an eye for a picture. You need to work hard. You need to accept disappointment. You'll get loads of rejections slips. If you don't, I've got some spares you can have. If an editor puts a comment on the slip then this means he quite likes your submission.