How do you make money?

[Simpo Two]

Efbe said:

not a photographer but have a few friends heavy into the blogging thing and making a decent living having given up their jobs.

Their biggest issue is finding decent pictures.
With these they post them on pinterest (using a reposting software to keep them going up maybe 2-3 times a day?) then use affiliate links to click through to whatever each one is selling.
Once the initial posts have been made, which are nothing more than an image, a few lines of text and a link, they are there forever so each additional one just adds more to the potential income stream.

Burt what on earth is that to do with photography? We can't all live on advertising revenue - because we pay for it every time we buy something!

'Their biggest issue is finding decent pictures'

[ashleyman]

Rogue86 said:

ashleyman said:

Have you got any tips for someone looking to go from freelance to staffed like you did?

It's as simple as looking for any other kind of work really. Having a CV (and/or portfolio preferably) that's relevant and up-to-date and keeping an eye on the job market via sites such as indeed, Linked-In etc. As with many niche roles, it can be very area-dependant - London tends to have lots of work as you would expect, the Midlands tends to be good for automotive roles and further north you're looking at places like Manchester and to a lesser-extent, Leeds.

I began on a very different route though to be honest and started my photography career through the Armed Forces. Not necessarily something I'd recommend for everyone (it can be a very demanding role both mentally and physically) but it's a good way to amass an unusual and broad portfolio in a relatively short space of time - you do work for it though!

Interesting perspective on how to find work, I'm struggling with my usual methods of speaking to agency producers or marketing managers, lots of us are because of Trump, Brexit etc... I regularly look on LinkedIn and only ever see full time spots. Maybe I need to look harder.

I've seen your work previously and it's great! Thanks for the reply.

[Tony1963]

Derek, that's a very good post. Thanks.

[Rogue86]

ashleyman said:

Interesting perspective on how to find work, I'm struggling with my usual methods of speaking to agency producers or marketing managers, lots of us are because of Trump, Brexit etc... I regularly look on LinkedIn and only ever see full time spots. Maybe I need to look harder.

I've seen your work previously and it's great! Thanks for the reply.

I think there is still agency work to be had, but there's the issue with their cut and how many other photographers they might have on their books so you're still fighting for work.

Certainly the studio I work in has faced a massive downturn in freelancers, whereas even 12months ago they were practically full time. Now there's only really work for the top 5% of freelance and that's done almost exclusively through an agency for high-end money. Those days are numbered though as budgets are getting tighter and it's difficult to justify not having a staffed team do the job for much less money. It's been tough watching the freelance guys fighting for scraps to be honest; many of them haven't worked for months. Many of the more "successful" guys you see on social media are actually doing it as secondary income (if they are even being paid at all, but that's another conversation!).

Thanks for the kind words though, glad you like the work!

[Pot Bellied Fool]

DavidY said:

[...] some for Fujiholics.

As an aside, I went on one of Matt's workshops in Liverpool last year - great time was had and reinvigorated my interest in photography.

[StevieBee]

Shutterstock...... my word they are exacting! Signed up three weeks ago; submitted eight shots. Had eight rejections.

Examples:

This was rejected on the grounds of displaying a trade mark. Said trade mark is half a Strada logo seen only at 400%



This was rejected on intellectual property grounds (wording) relating to the plaque at the bottom of the staircase and the fact that I need a property licence form despite the property being a 'public property.



And apparently I need permission from the owners of the stadium in Cluj for this one as well.

[Simpo Two]

StevieBee said:

Shutterstock...... my word they are exacting! Signed up three weeks ago; submitted eight shots. Had eight rejections.

Take Scottish landscapes. £220pa straight in the bank, bosh

(caveat - you'll still need a day job!)

[Derek Smith]

Tony1963 said:

Derek, that's a very good post. Thanks.

No problem. Really pleased to help.

I'm a writer who takes photographs. I think there is more than enough work for a photographer who writes. The separation is artificial. All you have to be is average at both at the start. You'll soon start selling.

There is an added bonus that I should have mentioned. If you have a hobby that is covered by a couple of WH Smith magazines, then go for them. An instance is Land Rovers. Four monthly magazines, all needing copy, all needing images. If you like off-roading, Landies and such, then target the editors. They won't pay all that much, at least at first, but any journeys will be tax deductible, as will equipment. Once you are established you can scrounge accommodation if you're covering something commercial. All of a sudden people will be phoning you.

My daughter-in-law runs an SEO company and in addition writes a travel blog. She recently went on an all expenses paid holiday plus pay. When on honeymoon a restaurant refused to take any money for their meal. She asked how they knew they'd just got married and the maitre-d got all confused and said; "No. You are the Content Wolf." except in foreign. http://www.thecontentwolf.com/

Now that's cool.

It was a bit of a slog for her for the first few years, mostly down to trying different routes, but she is now turning away work, or at least passing it on for a percentage. All she does is check quality. She's fussy. (Yet she married my youngest.)

I know it is hackneyed but play to your strengths and do what you want to do.

[ukaskew]

Weddings for me, as a direct result of motorsport work being out there, oddly enough.

I always assumed I'd hate it, but I make it very, very clear on my website that I'm essentially a wedding photographer for people who don't really like having their wedding photos taken. The result is attracting exclusively super chilled out couples who are an absolute pleasure to work with. It's great fun and surprisingly utterly stress free now I've done 40+.

[silobass]

StevieBee said:

Shutterstock...... my word they are exacting! Signed up three weeks ago; submitted eight shots. Had eight rejections.

---

Rejected photos----

Have you tried Eyeem? They seem a lot less fussy. Not sure how they compare to SS sales wise but they do get stuff of Getty, even I've sold a few (3) photos on there!

[Simpo Two]

Derek Smith said:

I'm a writer who takes photographs. I think there is more than enough work for a photographer who writes.

Whilst I hate to rain on your parade, have yo not already completed a successful career as a policeman and therefore have a pension to live on and so anything else is a hobby?

ukaskew said:

Weddings for me, as a direct result of motorsport work being out there, oddly enough.

I always assumed I'd hate it, but I make it very, very clear on my website that I'm essentially a wedding photographer for people who don't really like having their wedding photos taken. The result is attracting exclusively super chilled out couples who are an absolute pleasure to work with. It's great fun and surprisingly utterly stress free now I've done 40+.

You may get jaded after 100 but love it while you do

[StevieBee]

Simpo Two said:

StevieBee said:

Shutterstock...... my word they are exacting! Signed up three weeks ago; submitted eight shots. Had eight rejections.

Take Scottish landscapes. £220pa straight in the bank, bosh

(caveat - you'll still need a day job!)

And I need to go to Scotland (or get one mahooosive lens!)

[Derek Smith]

Simpo Two said:

Derek Smith said:

I'm a writer who takes photographs. I think there is more than enough work for a photographer who writes.

Whilst I hate to rain on your parade, have yo not already completed a successful career as a policeman and therefore have a pension to live on and so anything else is a hobby?

I think you're suggesting that I don't need the extra income so my advice is tainted in some way. I'm not sure of the logic in that. I was just pointing out opportunities, not giving advice on how to manage a career change

I would not advise anyone to jack in their job and try writing without preparation. In the early stages an additional source of income is generally essential. My daughter-in-law did content management including SEO. She built up an online presence, wrote for others, and eventually had enough to take the plunge. Changes in career seem to be the norm nowadays; three of my kids have done that and three of their partners have as well. My elder daughter is studying to start up her own business, so second change for her, but is still employed. Her husband went from a commodities broker to electrician to another job that a wee bit technical. They've all done it in stages.

You can earn a decent living as a writer. You'll get more if you include images. II don't think having a pension confuses the matter in any way.

You mention hobby. If I could be indulged for a moment by giving advice, I'd suggest that if your main employment is your hobby, then you've got it cracked. Go for it but have a plan.

Thanks for the rain.

[Lynchie999]

Simpo Two said:

StevieBee said:

Shutterstock...... my word they are exacting! Signed up three weeks ago; submitted eight shots. Had eight rejections.

Take Scottish landscapes. £220pa straight in the bank, bosh

(caveat - you'll still need a day job!)

don't you need model release from the highland cattle and sheep ? too much faff that!

[Simpo Two]

Derek Smith said:

I think you're suggesting that I don't need the extra income so my advice is tainted in some way. I'm not sure of the logic in that. I was just pointing out opportunities, not giving advice on how to manage a career change

I would not advise anyone to jack in their job and try writing without preparation. In the early stages an additional source of income is generally essential. My daughter-in-law did content management including SEO. She built up an online presence, wrote for others, and eventually had enough to take the plunge. Changes in career seem to be the norm nowadays; three of my kids have done that and three of their partners have as well. My elder daughter is studying to start up her own business, so second change for her, but is still employed. Her husband went from a commodities broker to electrician to another job that a wee bit technical. They've all done it in stages.

I think few people have the same career for their whole working life. Everything you say is valid and could generate income if the person had the wits to do it, but not necessarily as a living. So the angle is whether one plans to make a living from it, or have a day job and make a little dosh on the side. And clearly, it's much easier to make £200 a year that £20K+.

[Derek Smith]

Simpo Two said:

I think few people have the same career for their whole working life. Everything you say is valid and could generate income if the person had the wits to do it, but not necessarily as a living. So the angle is whether one plans to make a living from it, or have a day job and make a little dosh on the side. And clearly, it's much easier to make £200 a year that £20K+.

I don't think the person getting £200 pa is trying. 2.5 years ago I topped £20k. I haven't gone for new contracts as some have ended. I'm happy at my level but if I put some more effort in, I'm certain I could soon return to that. Even then I put in no more that 25 hours a week writing, although there were all day visits to various places.

On top of that I get an allowance for maintaining my office, I go to places I would have liked to have gone to in any case, but tickets and mileage are claimable, but that's not income I know. It's doable. I reckon £40k is well within reach of most of us but only after becoming established.

When I was thinking of changing my job back in the 70s I went to discuss it with my father, more out of politeness than anything else. He asked me what I would be doing in 10 years time if I didn't go for it. Same old isn't a very attractive proposition. What I'd have been thinking after 10 years was 'I wish I'd had at least given it a go.'

[Simpo Two]

Derek Smith said:

I don't think the person getting £200 pa is trying. 2.5 years ago I topped £20k. I haven't gone for new contracts as some have ended. I'm happy at my level but if I put some more effort in, I'm certain I could soon return to that. Even then I put in no more that 25 hours a week writing, although there were all day visits to various places.

On top of that I get an allowance for maintaining my office, I go to places I would have liked to have gone to in any case, but tickets and mileage are claimable, but that's not income I know. It's doable. I reckon £40k is well within reach of most of us but only after becoming established.

You must regret all that time spent as a copper... think what you could have achieved!

[Derek Smith]

Simpo Two said:

You must regret all that time spent as a copper... think what you could have achieved!

Confused as to the meaning I'm afraid.

[Simpo Two]

Derek Smith said:

Confused as to the meaning I'm afraid.

You are confused by 'think what you could have achieved'?

[Avantime]

A fascinating thread, this one.

I fell into Photography by mistake - I studied Fine Art (painting and print making), then ran my own business for 17 years producing art products and oak furniture. During my time at Art College I used photography a fair bit and worked part time in a photo lab. I was forced to close the business a few years ago, worked for Damien Hirst for a couple of years and then decided to do my Teacher training.

I had planned to teach Art, but ended up teaching Photography. I love it! After a number of successful PPI claims I have bought some semi pro kit (Canon 5DSR and a number of L lenses and a Jag XFR!) - I even let the kids use them in school - under careful supervision (not the Jag!). Last year we opened up photography for yr7 and 8. As a result there are 680 kids studying it next year and another full time photography teacher has been appointed.

This has meant I can do my own photography in my own time with no customer constraints. Since starting as a teacher I have learnt lots of new techniques, and many from the students. I'm currently planning a photography and art project to do over the next 6 weeks before going back in September.