Worth switching to mirrorless?

[Craikeybaby]

steveatesh said:

Not sure if I have the right model and camera group as you are talking about but I have the A7iii. To be honest by the time you get some decent lenses the difference in size is not worth the worry. The lens are still big. Sorry if I’be misunderstood what camera system you mean!

Thanks, that was what I was thinking about. And seems to get a lot of love on this thread.

[steveatesh]

Heres Johnny said:

I still come back to the idea that one of the USPs of the Sony camera is the eye tracking focus and how accurate that is - ok, on a DSLR you need to have your lens puroperly calibrated to your body, a relatively easy step with live view, but after that its down to the software which has nothing that I can see to do with mirrorless or not. Its like buying a diesel over a petrol because the diesel has a better sat nav.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Saturday 1st September 11:13

The eye focus was one of the key USPS that made me switch from Nikon, I wasn’t heavily invested in Nikon lens (I wanted a FF camera and 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 lens, either way I was going to spend a lot of money) which made the decision to switch easier.

The eye focus is brilliant I have to say, it is fast and accurate but importantly when shooting a moving subject it automatically maintains focus (or at least it has for me up to now!)

So I do baby / child/ family portraits and when the baby is moving around the eye focus just keeps locked on the eye, or as I said in an earlier post a running child is much easier to shoot wide open and get sharp eyes.

[Whoozit]

Heres Johnny said:

If you want FF and fast glass, it simply can't be small. Mirrorless justification on weight seems to be for the user who is happier with cheaper/slower/less capable lens.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Saturday 1st September 11:13

To unpick that a little...what's the USP of FF and fast glass for you? Do you print billboard size/do astro photography/specialise in shallow DOF images?

The usage envelope of all cameras generally is increasing in leaps and bounds. FF passed the point of sufficiency for pro use ~7 years ago. sensibly sized crop sensors aren't all that far behind, except at the very margins where larger pixel size matters. The vast majority of pro images are, I imagine, for online use.

So I'm very interested in the case for the defence, as I have a Nikon FF+crop+brace of lenses about to go back to Greys of Westminster.

Edited by Whoozit on Sunday 2nd September 22:03

[Heres Johnny]

Whoozit said:

Heres Johnny said:

If you want FF and fast glass, it simply can't be small. Mirrorless justification on weight seems to be for the user who is happier with cheaper/slower/less capable lens.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Saturday 1st September 11:13

To unpick that a little...what's the USP of FF and fast glass for you? Do you print billboard size/do astro photography/specialise in shallow DOF images?

I was at a local pub music festival yesterday. Ended up shooting at ISO 6,4K-10k and f2,8 and even then tricky to get a steady shot as the shutter speed was still way too slow at times No much more than a single light on this guy and it’s way off being sharp

[Heres Johnny]

But it helps in better light too, same guy in twighlight, I guess it’s these where it helps the most

[R1 Dave]

Just a small update - I picked up a Sony A7iii yesterday along with a 55mm f1. 8 Zeiss lens and I'm very happy, the eye AF is incredible, I took some shots of my very energetic young daughters today and despite their inability to stay still the images are tack sharp on their eyes despite shooting wide open. I really like the way the camera handles and I'm enjoying slowly learning the way it works.

[steveatesh]

R1 Dave said:

Just a small update - I picked up a Sony A7iii yesterday along with a 55mm f1. 8 Zeiss lens and I'm very happy, the eye AF is incredible, I took some shots of my very energetic young daughters today and despite their inability to stay still the images are tack sharp on their eyes despite shooting wide open. I really like the way the camera handles and I'm enjoying slowly learning the way it works.

Great Choice, enjoy!

[Likeomg]

I've been using Oly 4/3 for a few years now...

Have the EM1 mk2, 8mm fisheye, 75mm 1.8, 40-150 2.8, 14-40 2.8, amazed by the performance.

I do have a itch to switch to Sony but as its just a side hobby its a serious investment to switch.

Actually have my EM5 Mk2 sitting around in a box that reminds me I need to sell it... been boxed for last 5 months

[R1 Dave]

steveatesh said:

R1 Dave said:

Just a small update - I picked up a Sony A7iii yesterday along with a 55mm f1. 8 Zeiss lens and I'm very happy, the eye AF is incredible, I took some shots of my very energetic young daughters today and despite their inability to stay still the images are tack sharp on their eyes despite shooting wide open. I really like the way the camera handles and I'm enjoying slowly learning the way it works.

Great Choice, enjoy!

Thanks. Loving it so far

[Craikeybaby]

This thread has really got me thinking. Unfortunately the Sony FF kit is probably too much of a stretch for me financially. I basically need to keep to the value of my existing kit. So I have been looking at the Fuji X-T20 or the X-E3, with a Canon M6 as an other option. Does anyone have experience of switching from FF DSLR to APS-C mirrorless, especially the Fuji system?

[Andy M]

Craikeybaby said:

This thread has really got me thinking. Unfortunately the Sony FF kit is probably too much of a stretch for me financially. I basically need to keep to the value of my existing kit. So I have been looking at the Fuji X-T20 or the X-E3, with a Canon M6 as an other option. Does anyone have experience of switching from FF DSLR to APS-C mirrorless, especially the Fuji system?

Yes.

I'm a big full-frame fan (and own/have previously owned: Leica M9, Nikon D800e, Canon 1Dsmk3, Canon 5D, Sony A7ii & A7Rii) but choose to shoot Fuji these days, with the X-H1 and X-T2. The Fuji's are a lot nicer to use than the Sony A7 models and any dSLR I've previously used.

The X-T2, the X-T20 and the X-E3 all have the same sensor, so you may find these videos worth a watch: https://youtu.be/1cbc6qJoyCM and https://youtu.be/5-k_N4w1rg8

Incidentally, the X-T3 is due to be announced tomorrow, so you may even find a bargain deal on a new X-T2. Also consider: the 23mm, 35mm and 50mm f2 primes, and the 18-55 is an excellent kit lens (better than the original Canon 24-105L in my experience). Fujinon lenses are relatively cheap, and are as good as any I've shot with in the past (possibly excluding ridiculously expensive Leica glass).

[Craikeybaby]

Andy M said:

Craikeybaby said:

This thread has really got me thinking. Unfortunately the Sony FF kit is probably too much of a stretch for me financially. I basically need to keep to the value of my existing kit. So I have been looking at the Fuji X-T20 or the X-E3, with a Canon M6 as an other option. Does anyone have experience of switching from FF DSLR to APS-C mirrorless, especially the Fuji system?

Yes.

I'm a big full-frame fan (and own/have previously owned: Leica M9, Nikon D800e, Canon 1Dsmk3, Canon 5D, Sony A7ii & A7Rii) but choose to shoot Fuji these days, with the X-H1 and X-T2. The Fuji's are a lot nicer to use than the Sony A7 models and any dSLR I've previously used.

The X-T2, the X-T20 and the X-E3 all have the same sensor, so you may find these videos worth a watch: https://youtu.be/1cbc6qJoyCM and https://youtu.be/5-k_N4w1rg8

Incidentally, the X-T3 is due to be announced tomorrow, so you may even find a bargain deal on a new X-T2. Also consider: the 23mm, 35mm and 50mm f2 primes, and the 18-55 is an excellent kit lens (better than the original Canon 24-105L in my experience). Fujinon lenses are relatively cheap, and are as good as any I've shot with in the past (possibly excluding ridiculously expensive Leica glass).

Thanks, I've seen rumours about the X-T3, but I think the X-T2 would need to drop down to X-T20/X-E3 levels for me to be able to afford it. Is it just the better build/weather proofing that the X-T2 benefits from? At the moment I'm leaning more towards the X-E3, as it is smaller and has the Bluetooth. I'll be going for the 18-55 and probably the 23mm prime, so glad to hear that they stack up well.

One thing that I haven't been able to find out about the Fuji systems - can you do back button focus?

[Andy M]

Craikeybaby said:

One thing that I haven't been able to find out about the Fuji systems - can you do back button focus?

Yes.

One thing to keep in mind when choosing lenses is the 1.5x crop factor. If you want a 35mm focal length lens then you’ll need the 23mm lens.

[Craikeybaby]

Spot on - thanks!

[Gad-Westy]

Craikeybaby said:

This thread has really got me thinking. Unfortunately the Sony FF kit is probably too much of a stretch for me financially. I basically need to keep to the value of my existing kit. So I have been looking at the Fuji X-T20 or the X-E3, with a Canon M6 as an other option. Does anyone have experience of switching from FF DSLR to APS-C mirrorless, especially the Fuji system?

There's a thread somehere on here I started a little while back about my switch back from Fuji X-T2 to Nikon DSLR.

I really liked the Fuji system would absolutely love one as a second camera, in fact either of the two models you suggest would do very nicely, thank you.

There were a couple of things that took me back FF Nikon gear though. Firstly, I found Fuji raw files fiddly to process in LR. Lots and lots of people manage just fine so this is not a deal breaker but it bugged me. Although I loved the direct controls of the camera, I actually never felt 100% at home with the X-T2 in terms of using some of the other stuff intuitively or the ergonomics. Years of Nikon muscle memory probably saw to that. I didn't feel totally confident with AF tracking either. It's very capable but you need to tweek it to the occasion. And then lastly, although the 24mp sensor is brilliant, I prefer working with the output of a full frame sensor, particularly for long exposure stuff that I regularly do. All little things that eventually led me back to my heavy old dinosaur FF DSLR. But I did buy a Fuji X100T as a second camera. Couldn't let Fuji out of my life completely, if nothing else, I love the Fuji Chrome simulation!

There is much to love about mirrorless in general but specifically with the Fuji system, all bodies are works of art. They look great and are built to match. The lenses are near enough all fantastic and some of them are absolute gems. The control wheels for important stuff is not just a gimmick, it works very well and the output straight out of camera is gorgeous.

For all the people who it's not quite clicked with (like me) there must be 10 who couldn't be happier.

[Craikeybaby]

Thanks. I’ve found your thread and I highlights some of the concerns I have. The Lightroom issue is the big one, as I’ve been using it since it launched and don’t fancy replacing it. I’ll have to search out some raw files from the cameras I am interested in and see how I can process them.

I think I’ll struggle with the muscle memory thing, I’ve got 2 cameras with identical controls, I got the first one in 2007! I can instinctively change any setting on them without looking, but I expect even switching to a new Canon system will be tricky. Hopefully the AF complexity will mean better AF, along with the weight that is the main weakness with my 5D.

I’m off on holiday next weekend, so that could be a good opportunity to jump in at the deep end and see how I get on!

[Gad-Westy]

Craikeybaby said:

Thanks. I’ve found your thread and I highlights some of the concerns I have. The Lightroom issue is the big one, as I’ve been using it since it launched and don’t fancy replacing it. I’ll have to search out some raw files from the cameras I am interested in and see how I can process them.

I think I’ll struggle with the muscle memory thing, I’ve got 2 cameras with identical controls, I got the first one in 2007! I can instinctively change any setting on them without looking, but I expect even switching to a new Canon system will be tricky. Hopefully the AF complexity will mean better AF, along with the weight that is the main weakness with my 5D.

I’m off on holiday next weekend, so that could be a good opportunity to jump in at the deep end and see how I get on!

I'll send you a few raws if you like (don't laugh at them!). You can see how you get on.

There are LR add ons (Irident?) that help but it sounds like I was like you in that I had my way of using lightroom and wasn't keen to find work arounds for these issues. Worth mentioning a couple of things though, most images look fantastic, it was really only when I wanted to play around with stuff, particularly landscapes that I started to encounter issues. And secondly, if you shoot in jpeg, you probably don't need to worry anyway though I've heard conflicting things on that.

[Heres Johnny]

Gad-Westy said:

All little things that eventually led me....

This is the crux of the choice for all really. Cameras pretty much do the bulk of stuff just as well, more or less, as each other. It's in the margins that makes the difference between what really works for one that doesn't work for someone else.

There's an associated argument that says knowing your kit and how to get the best out of it is more important than just having better kit.

[Craikeybaby]

Gad-Westy said:

I'll send you a few raws if you like (don't laugh at them!). You can see how you get on.

There are LR add ons (Irident?) that help but it sounds like I was like you in that I had my way of using lightroom and wasn't keen to find work arounds for these issues. Worth mentioning a couple of things though, most images look fantastic, it was really only when I wanted to play around with stuff, particularly landscapes that I started to encounter issues. And secondly, if you shoot in jpeg, you probably don't need to worry anyway though I've heard conflicting things on that.

Thanks, I'll drop you a PM so you have my email.

[R1 Dave]

Craikeybaby said:

This thread has really got me thinking. Unfortunately the Sony FF kit is probably too much of a stretch for me financially. I basically need to keep to the value of my existing kit. So I have been looking at the Fuji X-T20 or the X-E3, with a Canon M6 as an other option. Does anyone have experience of switching from FF DSLR to APS-C mirrorless, especially the Fuji system?

A friend of mine works for a tech / design mag and as a result gets to try pretty much every new bit of photography/video kit available and he chooses to shoot Fuji, says he loves it. I don't know which model it is but I know it's an APS-c mirrorless.