I'm confused...
Discussion
red997 said:
well, I finally made a decision;
Weighing up all the pros / cons etc...
I went for a 5dmk4 + 24-105 lens
bought from Panamoz - price seems to be almost too good to be true, but the reviews on they back everything up.
I may pick up a light mirrorless camera later on...
Enjoy mate! Outstanding camera.Weighing up all the pros / cons etc...
I went for a 5dmk4 + 24-105 lens
bought from Panamoz - price seems to be almost too good to be true, but the reviews on they back everything up.
I may pick up a light mirrorless camera later on...
Yeh I wouldn't get too hung up on not going mirrorless just yet, I was in the same boat as you two weeks ago and stuck with DSLR. The value for money right now on them is too good to turn down
I own a few sony mirrorless cameras, but today was playing with my old 650d when clearing out a cupboard. I 100% prefer the ergonomics of a DSLR - feels nicer in the hand, weight is balanced more. The tech in the sony is great, but the Canon feels much nicer to use, and I still think in the field, I could snap something quicker with the canon. With the Sony i'd be fiddling with its menus whilst the kodak moment passes....
(why have i not sold they sonys? They match up will with my FS7 that i use for video work, and I do a lot of time-lapse and some behind the scenes work where silent mirrorless is what I need. But if I wanted a camera for pure photography, id still go for a canon DSLR every time)
(why have i not sold they sonys? They match up will with my FS7 that i use for video work, and I do a lot of time-lapse and some behind the scenes work where silent mirrorless is what I need. But if I wanted a camera for pure photography, id still go for a canon DSLR every time)
Edited by Fordo on Tuesday 18th December 14:12
Fordo said:
I own a few sony mirrorless cameras, but today was playing with my old 650d when clearing out a cupboard. I 100% prefer the ergonomics of a DSLR - feels nicer in the hand, weight is balanced more. The tech in the sony is great, but the Canon feels much nicer to use, and I still think in the field, I could snap something quicker with the canon. With the Sony i'd be fiddling with its menus whilst the kodak moment passes....
(why have i not sold they sonys? They match up will with my FS7 that i use for video work, and I do a lot of time-lapse and some behind the scenes work where silent mirrorless is what I need. But if I wanted a camera for pure photography, id still go for a canon DSLR every time)
This was a lot of my reasoning behind staying DSLR. Apparently a lot of the settings are hidden in menus on the Sony as opposed to on dials or buttons, is that right?(why have i not sold they sonys? They match up will with my FS7 that i use for video work, and I do a lot of time-lapse and some behind the scenes work where silent mirrorless is what I need. But if I wanted a camera for pure photography, id still go for a canon DSLR every time)
Edited by Fordo on Tuesday 18th December 14:12
With regards to AF when using video the Sonys are incredible.
Kewy said:
This was a lot of my reasoning behind staying DSLR. Apparently a lot of the settings are hidden in menus on the Sony as opposed to on dials or buttons, is that right?
With regards to AF when using video the Sonys are incredible.
A lot of things are hidden away, and there's no real logic to the UI of the menus, its a bit of a mess. They're whole interface needs a rethink, to be more easy to use I think.With regards to AF when using video the Sonys are incredible.
One of the trade-offs with mirrorless cameras, is as the body gets smaller, theres physically less space to put buttons and dials, so they put less on the camera, and put more features into the menus instead.
AF - its good, but i dont really use it that often. Autofocus doesn't know when I might want focus to move from one thing to another. (something that you'd never need in photography.). And AF doesn't really know what to do when subject walks in or out of frame. (another thing that isn't something you'd worry about in photography.). So manual focus will always be the primary way for video in the pro world at least.
Have used some tracking AF modes when rigging mirrorless cams to cars and on gimbals, though - the tech is getting impressive
Fordo said:
A lot of things are hidden away, and there's no real logic to the UI of the menus, its a bit of a mess. They're whole interface needs a rethink, to be more easy to use I think.
One of the trade-offs with mirrorless cameras, is as the body gets smaller, theres physically less space to put buttons and dials, so they put less on the camera, and put more features into the menus instead.
AF - its good, but i dont really use it that often. Autofocus doesn't know when I might want focus to move from one thing to another. (something that you'd never need in photography.). And AF doesn't really know what to do when subject walks in or out of frame. (another thing that isn't something you'd worry about in photography.). So manual focus will always be the primary way for video in the pro world at least.
Have used some tracking AF modes when rigging mirrorless cams to cars and on gimbals, though - the tech is getting impressive
Yeh that makes a lot of sense.One of the trade-offs with mirrorless cameras, is as the body gets smaller, theres physically less space to put buttons and dials, so they put less on the camera, and put more features into the menus instead.
AF - its good, but i dont really use it that often. Autofocus doesn't know when I might want focus to move from one thing to another. (something that you'd never need in photography.). And AF doesn't really know what to do when subject walks in or out of frame. (another thing that isn't something you'd worry about in photography.). So manual focus will always be the primary way for video in the pro world at least.
Have used some tracking AF modes when rigging mirrorless cams to cars and on gimbals, though - the tech is getting impressive
Refreshing to hear that manual focus is still the way to go to get the best results. As much as Nikons aren't known for their video, the D750 I have just purchased is supposed to be very capable of video, just sucks at AF! I told myself I would use this as a reason to master manual focus in video mode
I video a lot of skating, so its a case of closing the lens down, pre-focusing and ensuring my subject doesn't leave the field at the moment! Any tips on shifting focus whilst filming would be great.
Kewy said:
Yeh that makes a lot of sense.
Refreshing to hear that manual focus is still the way to go to get the best results. As much as Nikons aren't known for their video, the D750 I have just purchased is supposed to be very capable of video, just sucks at AF! I told myself I would use this as a reason to master manual focus in video mode
I video a lot of skating, so its a case of closing the lens down, pre-focusing and ensuring my subject doesn't leave the field at the moment! Any tips on shifting focus whilst filming would be great.
Yeah, auto focus, no matter how clever, can't think about what the shot actually is, or what is going to happen in time.Refreshing to hear that manual focus is still the way to go to get the best results. As much as Nikons aren't known for their video, the D750 I have just purchased is supposed to be very capable of video, just sucks at AF! I told myself I would use this as a reason to master manual focus in video mode
I video a lot of skating, so its a case of closing the lens down, pre-focusing and ensuring my subject doesn't leave the field at the moment! Any tips on shifting focus whilst filming would be great.
So it's good at keeping a face in focus in the shot. But only i know that i want the shot to pull focus from the presenter to the background just as the F1 car is coming into shot.
Tips - hmmm.
One issue with Nikon lenses, is you'll be teaching your muscles to do it the 'wrong' way. All other lenses in the world (canon, zeiss, angenieux, fujinon, etc) focus with counter-clockwise being towards infinity, and clockwise for closer, but Nikon decided to go the other way for some reason. This is why I own no Nikon glass, despite there being some lovely ones. If I pick up a nikon lens and manually focus, I get it wrong as my muscle memory will go the other way.
Other than that - practice practice practice. The small size monitor of a DSLR isn't the easiest to focus on. Getting a small monitor can help. Can your nikon do peaking on the display. Peaking puts artificial lines on areas on high contrast, and its an invaluable tool for aiding focus. Kind of like sharpening turned way up. I usually have red peaking on, on any monitor im working on, if im pulling focus. Red lines 'pop' on anything in focus, and it really helps visualise the plane of focus.
I also find sometimes deep focus isnt that easy, as when everything sharp its hard to know exactly where the plane of focus is. So for sports or moving subjects, personally I find f4, f5.6 quite nice. Pleasing shallow depth background, but theres enough depth to be a bit more forgiving in the focus department.
Also, rehearsing shots helps, and don't just use your subject to know your focus - a moving subject can be tricky, but you can use the area around them to help. the grass, pavement etc - if Im filming motorsport, i'll pre-focus for the apex as I know thats where they'll pass through. I'll rehearse the shot and know how fast to pull focus towards me. If using fully manual glass i might setup marks on the lens itself. If I loose sharps slightly on the car, i'll look to the side of the track or anything else in frame as a guide to know if my focus plane is behind or ahead of them to I know which way I need to go.
Unfortunately, photography lenses mostly are not designed with manual focus really in mind. So the throw is very short which makes manual focus very tricky if you've just got 2mm to turn the lens, to go between 5 metres and 10 metres. Cine style lenses are gorgeous to work with - super smooth, long throw to the focus barrel, and accurate focus marks.
Or go full big budget and hire a Focus Puller from the film world. Its an art what they do!
Edited by Fordo on Tuesday 18th December 15:12
Fordo said:
Yeah, auto focus, no matter how clever, can't think about what the shot actually is, or what is going to happen in time.
So it's good at keeping a face in focus in the shot. But only i know that i want the shot to pull focus from the presenter to the background just as the F1 car is coming into shot.
Tips - hmmm.
One issue with Nikon lenses, is you'll be teaching your muscles to do it the 'wrong' way. All other lenses in the world (canon, zeiss, angenieux, fujinon, etc) focus with counter-clockwise being towards infinity, and clockwise for closer, but Nikon decided to go the other way for some reason. This is why I own no Nikon glass, despite there being some lovely ones. If I pick up a nikon lens and manually focus, I get it wrong as my muscle memory will go the other way.
Other than that - practice practice practice. The small size monitor of a DSLR isn't the easiest to focus on. Getting a small monitor can help. Can your nikon do peaking on the display. Peaking puts artificial lines on areas on high contrast, and its an invaluable tool for aiding focus. Kind of like sharpening turned way up. I usually have red peaking on, on any monitor im working on, if im pulling focus. Red lines 'pop' on anything in focus, and it really helps visualise the plane of focus.
I also find sometimes deep focus isnt that easy, as when everything sharp its hard to know exactly where the plane of focus is. So for sports or moving subjects, personally I find f4, f5.6 quite nice. Pleasing shallow depth background, but theres enough depth to be a bit more forgiving in the focus department.
Also, rehearsing shots helps, and don't just use your subject to know your focus - a moving subject can be tricky, but you can use the area around them to help. the grass, pavement etc - if Im filming motorsport, i'll pre-focus for the apex as I know thats where they'll pass through. I'll rehearse the shot and know how fast to pull focus towards me. If using fully manual glass i might setup marks on the lens itself. If I loose sharps slightly on the car, i'll look to the side of the track or anything else in frame as a guide to know if my focus plane is behind or ahead of them to I know which way I need to go.
Or go big budget and hire a Focus Puller from the film world. Its an art what they do!
Thanks for taking the time to reply. As I expected then its predominantly about practice, which I'm happy to do plenty of So it's good at keeping a face in focus in the shot. But only i know that i want the shot to pull focus from the presenter to the background just as the F1 car is coming into shot.
Tips - hmmm.
One issue with Nikon lenses, is you'll be teaching your muscles to do it the 'wrong' way. All other lenses in the world (canon, zeiss, angenieux, fujinon, etc) focus with counter-clockwise being towards infinity, and clockwise for closer, but Nikon decided to go the other way for some reason. This is why I own no Nikon glass, despite there being some lovely ones. If I pick up a nikon lens and manually focus, I get it wrong as my muscle memory will go the other way.
Other than that - practice practice practice. The small size monitor of a DSLR isn't the easiest to focus on. Getting a small monitor can help. Can your nikon do peaking on the display. Peaking puts artificial lines on areas on high contrast, and its an invaluable tool for aiding focus. Kind of like sharpening turned way up. I usually have red peaking on, on any monitor im working on, if im pulling focus. Red lines 'pop' on anything in focus, and it really helps visualise the plane of focus.
I also find sometimes deep focus isnt that easy, as when everything sharp its hard to know exactly where the plane of focus is. So for sports or moving subjects, personally I find f4, f5.6 quite nice. Pleasing shallow depth background, but theres enough depth to be a bit more forgiving in the focus department.
Also, rehearsing shots helps, and don't just use your subject to know your focus - a moving subject can be tricky, but you can use the area around them to help. the grass, pavement etc - if Im filming motorsport, i'll pre-focus for the apex as I know thats where they'll pass through. I'll rehearse the shot and know how fast to pull focus towards me. If using fully manual glass i might setup marks on the lens itself. If I loose sharps slightly on the car, i'll look to the side of the track or anything else in frame as a guide to know if my focus plane is behind or ahead of them to I know which way I need to go.
Or go big budget and hire a Focus Puller from the film world. Its an art what they do!
Yeh I was aware of the backwards nature of Nikon lenses, I have a couple of Sigma lenses and have to switch between the two. Not so much of an issue when you're composing a still photo but I can see how it would become a problem focusing 'live' whilst filming.
Will take on board your points on deep DoF, for wide lenses then I could probably get away with f4, but the narrower the focal length the more it becomes an obstacle, as I'm sure you know.
With regards to tracking a moving object and keeping it in focus, I think I'm a long way from that! But you can only practice and get better eh. I've been taking still shots for the best part of 15 years but the video side of things is a whole different ball game!
Kewy said:
I've been taking still shots for the best part of 15 years but the video side of things is a whole different ball game!
I'm the reverse - I think in terms of sequences and camera movement, and audio etc - but flash photography, or portrait framing, or just the right shutter speed for X or Y situation, is all a little alien to me.I was asked to do photography tomorrow for a job - I told the client i'm a DOP and a cam op. While i can focus pull on a sportscar on track on a 400mm lens, and run around doing documentary video work, and I can light a studio based production - it's a completely different skillset to photography. While I can take a decent photo, and know know and understand good framing and lighting - But I won't produce the same results as a pro photographer who'll work faster, and get more consistent results.
Interesting to read that Fordo /\
I get asked a lot to take stills, and sometimes video,(for proper money), but I always refuse.
I ONLY do what I do, and people can like or lump it.
Means I make less money, but have less stress! HMRC still love me mind ;0)
Back to DSLR v Mirrorless... I just like walking about with a lot less size and weight. It's that simple for me. (Lazy git). I've noticed no depreciation in quality of images, and no less money earned.
Simple for me, though I can understand why other more creative togs may want to stick with mirrors.
In 10 years time I still think DSLR will be 'enthusiast' only. Mirrorless will win big time. It's a no brainer.
I get asked a lot to take stills, and sometimes video,(for proper money), but I always refuse.
I ONLY do what I do, and people can like or lump it.
Means I make less money, but have less stress! HMRC still love me mind ;0)
Back to DSLR v Mirrorless... I just like walking about with a lot less size and weight. It's that simple for me. (Lazy git). I've noticed no depreciation in quality of images, and no less money earned.
Simple for me, though I can understand why other more creative togs may want to stick with mirrors.
In 10 years time I still think DSLR will be 'enthusiast' only. Mirrorless will win big time. It's a no brainer.
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