Discussion
If you wanted the traditional SLR handling, Fuji would have been a better choice, but it is more expensive and you don't have the lenses etc.
You probably don't "need" anything more than you already have, although you may find that you need a wider lens, as 28mm on a cropped sensor DSLR is not particularly wide. Your best bet is to experiment and see how you get on.
You probably don't "need" anything more than you already have, although you may find that you need a wider lens, as 28mm on a cropped sensor DSLR is not particularly wide. Your best bet is to experiment and see how you get on.
There are two broad topics to tackle and I'm not sure which one you're really requesting help for.
- Learning how to use the camera - RTFM and experiment.
- Learning how to take photographs - I can thoroughly recommend Tom Ang's 'Digital photography masterclass', it's a cracking book and enabled me to progress from completely useless to below average!
BrokenSkunk said:
There are two broad topics to tackle and I'm not sure which one you're really requesting help for.
- Learning how to use the camera - RTFM and experiment.
- Learning how to take photographs - I can thoroughly recommend Tom Ang's 'Digital photography masterclass', it's a cracking book and enabled me to progress from completely useless to below average!
I’ve pushed very hard to make it to mediocre… set yourself low goals, never be disappointed.
Simpo Two said:
1) I've chopped out the relevant bits. Possibly the main error, if you found the Canon SLR unintuitive, was to buy another Canon. Having shot Nikon for 25 years I can't work Canons at all!
2) So, you could swap the Canon 40D for something you find more intuitive, or plough on.
3) You used the Yashica SLR quite happily so presumably you understand aperture, shutter speed and focal length and how they inter-relate. The issue I think is that (1) everything will be in a different place on the Canon (2) it is covered by layers of complex clutter you haven't met before.
4) I think you have enough ability to find what you want with this new camera, and then you'll be able to use it your way without watching videos. You can find all you need in the manual; the hard part is probably sifting out what you want to know from what you don't. You have, if you want it, auto-everything - aperture, shutter, ISO, focus and much more. When you use a camera you need to know which bits of the job IT is doing, and which bits of the job YOU are doing. With a manual SLR you're used to doing it all; now, the camera will wade in and do stuff you don't understand that may conflict with what you want. So turn off the bits you don't want it to do and get back to basics.
If you want to shoot aperture-priority exposure, you will I'm afraid have to get used to adjusting aperture in the camera body.
5) I believe that camera control comes first, and image processing second. So keep your workload manageable for now by staying with JPG. It's one thing less to worry about, and you can embrace RAW as and when you're ready to, or as your photography demands.
6) Not sure if that answered the question but it may help!
1) Maybe unintuitive was the wrong choice of word. More that when I had Yashica and Canon 35mm cameras and lenses side-by-side there was no incentive to learn how to use the Canon - I had better glass for the Yashica and already knew my way around it. 2) So, you could swap the Canon 40D for something you find more intuitive, or plough on.
3) You used the Yashica SLR quite happily so presumably you understand aperture, shutter speed and focal length and how they inter-relate. The issue I think is that (1) everything will be in a different place on the Canon (2) it is covered by layers of complex clutter you haven't met before.
4) I think you have enough ability to find what you want with this new camera, and then you'll be able to use it your way without watching videos. You can find all you need in the manual; the hard part is probably sifting out what you want to know from what you don't. You have, if you want it, auto-everything - aperture, shutter, ISO, focus and much more. When you use a camera you need to know which bits of the job IT is doing, and which bits of the job YOU are doing. With a manual SLR you're used to doing it all; now, the camera will wade in and do stuff you don't understand that may conflict with what you want. So turn off the bits you don't want it to do and get back to basics.
If you want to shoot aperture-priority exposure, you will I'm afraid have to get used to adjusting aperture in the camera body.
5) I believe that camera control comes first, and image processing second. So keep your workload manageable for now by staying with JPG. It's one thing less to worry about, and you can embrace RAW as and when you're ready to, or as your photography demands.
6) Not sure if that answered the question but it may help!
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 11th January 14:14
2) Unless someone randomly offers a straight swap for something else I can't afford to do anything but plough on with the 40D. I've got lenses and accessories for it already and it's cost me "only" a smidgin over £100.
3) You've nailed down the main issue I have which is all the controls I probably don't need making things look more complicated than they need to be, and the controls I do need in different places. Biggest one for me will be using control wheels on the camera body to adjust aperture, rather than a ring on the lens itself.
4) I've got a ropey copy of the instruction manual. It's all there but the binding has failed so not much use "out and about". I've downloaded a PDF copy to my laptop too, and I also bought (£3.79 delivered) Charlotte K. Lowrie's 'Canon EOS 40D Digital Field Guide' published back when the camera was new in 2008. As you say, though, reading the manual is one thing, but I'm going to have to filter it down to the controls I actually want/need, and practise using them to develop them as second nature.
5) This is an interesting point. I've read about how JPEG format discards data every time it gets edited/saved, so was concerned I'd not be getting the best results by staying with it (the camera ONLY shoots/saves in JPEG on full auto mode anyway). But by the same token the Canon DPP software looks complex so maybe I should take you advice and learn how to use the camera before introducing myself to the editing possibilities of RAW files.
6) It definitely goes a long way to answering the questions I've got. Books and manuals are all well and good, but it's always good to pick the brains of people far more used to digital photography than me. This is my first real foray into it beyond phone cameras and low-end compacts, I've still got a LOT of questions to answer, but I'll try to use youtube, my instruction manual, and the book I bought to answer them for myself rather than asking loads of dumb questions on this forum...
Edited by yellowjack on Thursday 12th January 14:43
Craikeybaby said:
If you wanted the traditional SLR handling, Fuji would have been a better choice, but it is more expensive and you don't have the lenses etc.
You probably don't "need" anything more than you already have, although you may find that you need a wider lens, as 28mm on a cropped sensor DSLR is not particularly wide. Your best bet is to experiment and see how you get on.
Yeah, if budget hadn't been such a pressing concern for me I'd have looked into other brands, but it seemed to me that Canon kit is quite popular, and therefore can be a bargain on the used market. That goes as much for upgrading and expanding my lens range as much for accessories like better flash units and remote switches for Bulb shooting, etc. That on top of the fact that I had compatible lenses already from my F-I-L's kit. Who knows, if I can get used to the digital Canon controls then maybe I'll sling a roll of black and white film into his old 35mm body and have a play with that.You probably don't "need" anything more than you already have, although you may find that you need a wider lens, as 28mm on a cropped sensor DSLR is not particularly wide. Your best bet is to experiment and see how you get on.
And yes, again, to a wider "wide" lens. I'm aware of the cropped sensor factor (I believe it's x 1.6) affecting focal length. If I'm right what I've actually got is a lens that's effectively a 45 to 128mm and another at 120 to 480mm. That's quite good for me starting out, but I'd like to get something wider, and possibly a dedicated macro lens, at some point.
Remember, lots of us went from old style 35mm to dSLR. I went quite quickly from an Olympus OM-1n to a Canon EOS 30, and 8 months later to a 20D. Yes, I still miss the beautiful controls of the 1n, and I still have it, but it’s a relic… Once your fingertips get used to the locations etc, you’ll be rattling through adjustments very quickly, with your eye still at the viewfinder.
yellowjack said:
And yes, again, to a wider "wide" lens. I'm aware of the cropped sensor factor (I believe it's x 1.6) affecting focal length. If I'm right what I've actually got is a lens that's effectively a 45 to 128mm and another at 120 to 480mm. That's quite good for me starting out, but I'd like to get something wider, and possibly a dedicated macro lens, at some point.
That sounds about right - the EF-S (-S means it only works on cropped sensor cameras) 18-55 "kit" lens would be a decent cheap wide angle lens. I regret selling the one that came with my 20D, as I now no longer have any Canon lenses.Well, today was my first real break in the weather to go out and use my "new" 40D. so I took it out to our local park and after about half an hour the heavens opened, in complete contrast to what was forecast and much to my disappointment...
I started with an Oak tree, trying to make something interesting out of it but it was a choice between composition and light. In the end I chose neither and messed it up trying manual settings. Still not got the hang of which buttons to press and which dials to adjust.
The lake here appears to have escaped. This was taken at f3.5 and 1/1600, ISO200 and shutter priority. It's had a mild tweak to the colour on my laptop too.
Aperture priority, f5.6, 1/250, ISO200. I took a series of shots with a variety of settings and automatic programs, this was the one I liked best.
This one's cropped to remove a family on the far bank, right of frame. They'd been feeding the ducks and were why the birds were so active. I used the sport/action setting on the dial for this, the camera chose f5.6, 1/320, ISO400 with the lens fully zoomed to 80mm. At this point I was wishing I'd taken the longer 300mm lens with me.
I'd tried to get some shots of this Heron at rest, but it kept getting disturbed by human park users. In the end I'd about given up on it but got lucky with if flying past me just after I'd taken the gulls. The same sport/action preset, a three shot burst at f5.6, 1/200 and ISO400 at full 80mm zoom. I cropped these because I wasn't happy with how "busy" the background was, due to the 28-80 lens I had on the camera. Far from perfect but it was nice to see that, with the help of the camera and autofocus (never had that before on an SLR), I managed to capture a recognisable image of this bird in flight.
That was when the heavens opened and I headed for the cover provided by a dense evergreen just outside the park. When the rain eased I walked up to where I'd hoped to snap some fungi on a tree trunk, passing some drops of rain well lit on the bare branch of a large bush. But when I took my camera out of my bag it began to rain heavily again. Same with a single drop of oil making rainbows in a puddle. Anyway, the fungi weren't there, the oil rainbows were gone when I came back the same way, and I had to head home because dinner was in the oven. I had another crack with the camera in my garden in the short time between getting home and the dinner being ready...
I was hampered by lack of light for this shot. The Snowdrops are almost permanently in the shadow of a 6ft fence. Manual settings this time. f6.3, 1/1000, ISO200. The result wasn't great if I'm honest and I had to brighten it and sharpen it afterwards, but I really wanted a shot of my own Snowdrops. In hindsight it would have been better to have the closer flower in crisp focus and to have extended the depth of field a bit, but the furthest away flower was the more open and 'proper' snowdrop shaped of the two, and it was uncomfortable on my belly on a garage floor tile trying to stay dry.
Over on the other side of the garden, in the sun, I took this one of the first signs on new growth on a climber we bought (but I can't recall the name of). I was pleased with the result, although it needed a little sharpening and the richness of the green reducing. Aperture priority, f5.6, 1/250, ISO200.
A couple of the guides to this camera on youtube have mentioned that the ISO choice made by the camera can be "a bit aggressive" so that's something I think I need to keep an eye on. But for a first "drive" of this camera it went OK. It felt good to have an SLR camera in my hand again, and it made me think about what I was seeing, and how I wanted things to look. For over a decade I've used only compact digital and phone cameras, resulting in being very much out of practise. Next on the list of things to buy will be a backpack camera kitbag and to take it out on bicycle rides on Purbeck and into the New Forest. Priority now will also be to slow down and take my time when trying manual settings so that a) I learn where the buttons and dials are and what they do, and b) I relearn the relationship between ISO, aperture, and shutter speed to improve my results...
I started with an Oak tree, trying to make something interesting out of it but it was a choice between composition and light. In the end I chose neither and messed it up trying manual settings. Still not got the hang of which buttons to press and which dials to adjust.
The lake here appears to have escaped. This was taken at f3.5 and 1/1600, ISO200 and shutter priority. It's had a mild tweak to the colour on my laptop too.
Aperture priority, f5.6, 1/250, ISO200. I took a series of shots with a variety of settings and automatic programs, this was the one I liked best.
This one's cropped to remove a family on the far bank, right of frame. They'd been feeding the ducks and were why the birds were so active. I used the sport/action setting on the dial for this, the camera chose f5.6, 1/320, ISO400 with the lens fully zoomed to 80mm. At this point I was wishing I'd taken the longer 300mm lens with me.
I'd tried to get some shots of this Heron at rest, but it kept getting disturbed by human park users. In the end I'd about given up on it but got lucky with if flying past me just after I'd taken the gulls. The same sport/action preset, a three shot burst at f5.6, 1/200 and ISO400 at full 80mm zoom. I cropped these because I wasn't happy with how "busy" the background was, due to the 28-80 lens I had on the camera. Far from perfect but it was nice to see that, with the help of the camera and autofocus (never had that before on an SLR), I managed to capture a recognisable image of this bird in flight.
That was when the heavens opened and I headed for the cover provided by a dense evergreen just outside the park. When the rain eased I walked up to where I'd hoped to snap some fungi on a tree trunk, passing some drops of rain well lit on the bare branch of a large bush. But when I took my camera out of my bag it began to rain heavily again. Same with a single drop of oil making rainbows in a puddle. Anyway, the fungi weren't there, the oil rainbows were gone when I came back the same way, and I had to head home because dinner was in the oven. I had another crack with the camera in my garden in the short time between getting home and the dinner being ready...
I was hampered by lack of light for this shot. The Snowdrops are almost permanently in the shadow of a 6ft fence. Manual settings this time. f6.3, 1/1000, ISO200. The result wasn't great if I'm honest and I had to brighten it and sharpen it afterwards, but I really wanted a shot of my own Snowdrops. In hindsight it would have been better to have the closer flower in crisp focus and to have extended the depth of field a bit, but the furthest away flower was the more open and 'proper' snowdrop shaped of the two, and it was uncomfortable on my belly on a garage floor tile trying to stay dry.
Over on the other side of the garden, in the sun, I took this one of the first signs on new growth on a climber we bought (but I can't recall the name of). I was pleased with the result, although it needed a little sharpening and the richness of the green reducing. Aperture priority, f5.6, 1/250, ISO200.
A couple of the guides to this camera on youtube have mentioned that the ISO choice made by the camera can be "a bit aggressive" so that's something I think I need to keep an eye on. But for a first "drive" of this camera it went OK. It felt good to have an SLR camera in my hand again, and it made me think about what I was seeing, and how I wanted things to look. For over a decade I've used only compact digital and phone cameras, resulting in being very much out of practise. Next on the list of things to buy will be a backpack camera kitbag and to take it out on bicycle rides on Purbeck and into the New Forest. Priority now will also be to slow down and take my time when trying manual settings so that a) I learn where the buttons and dials are and what they do, and b) I relearn the relationship between ISO, aperture, and shutter speed to improve my results...
Simpo Two said:
yellowjack said:
A couple of the guides to this camera on youtube have mentioned that the ISO choice made by the camera can be "a bit aggressive" so that's something I think I need to keep an eye on.
Were you using Auto-ISO?yellowjack said:
I was hampered by lack of light for this shot. The Snowdrops are almost permanently in the shadow of a 6ft fence. Manual settings this time. f6.3, 1/1000, ISO200. The result wasn't great if I'm honest and I had to brighten it and sharpen it afterwards, but I really wanted a shot of my own Snowdrops. In hindsight it would have been better to have the closer flower in crisp focus and to have extended the depth of field a bit, but the furthest away flower was the more open and 'proper' snowdrop shaped of the two, and it was uncomfortable on my belly on a garage floor tile trying to stay dry.
A couple of thoughts from me (hope you don't mind).
Firstly, regarding controls, I think that with a bit of experience/practise, you'll soon become comfortable with making adjustments quickly.
Years ago, I changed from Minolta kit, and had to decide whether to go Nikon or Canon. I tried both, and ended up with a Canon 40D (as opposed to a Nikon D300), basically because for me I preferred the menu setup. Others prefer different manufacturers (e.g. Simpo uses Nikon kit AFAIK). Regardless, they all allow the same adjustments, and I'm sure had I gone down the Nikon route, I'd be very happy with that as well.
Once you are familiar with a manufacturer, the controls tend to remain pretty consistend between models. I say this having gone from a Canon 40D to 5Dmk1, 5Dmk3, and now R5.
A couple of comments on the photos:
The one of the lake, and the one of the snowdrops in the dark were both shot with very high shutter speeds (1/1600 and 1/1000). A general rule of thumb regarding shutter speeds is that if the subject isn't really moving (so not an "action" shot), you can usually get away with a shutter speed as slow as the reciprocal of the focal length of the lens.
For example, if using a 200mm lens, it is generally possible to get a sharp shot using 1/200 of a second when hand holding the camera.
In the case of the snowdrops in the dark, assuming you were still using the 28-80mm lens, you could have used a shutter speed of 1/100th second, enabling a much brighter exposure.
Suggestion on a possible way forward
ISO, aperture and shutter speed control
In order to reduce the complications of which control does what, you might like to try the following:
Set the ISO manually (turn off auto ISO) for something appropriate for what you are shooting - the type of scenes above I'd tend to go for 200 or 400 ISO. Don't then change the ISO unless you have a specific need to. For all the shots above, you could have left it on ISO 400 for the whole day.
Set the camera for Aperture Priority auto exposure (Av).
Use the dial on the top of the camera just behind the shutter release to change aperture using your right index finger - this is easy to do even while looking through the viewfinder.
(See page 88 of the manual)
As I'm sure you're aware, the camera then sets an appropriate shutter speed which is displayed in the viewfinder.
If you want greater depth of field, set a smaller aperture and just keep an eye on the shutter speed remaining fast enough.
If you are suddenly faced with the heron flying, rather than change modes, leave it in Av mode and simply set a wider aperture, which will instantly give you a faster shutter speed to help freeze movement.
In this way, you've only got to worry about the one dial, and the shutter button for AF, and shutter release.
Go out and try the above for a couple of sessions and see how you get on before worrying about full manual, auto ISO, Tv, exposure compensation etc..
Personally, I shoot probably 90% of shots in Av mode, only switching to manual for very specific reasons - mainly in particularly tricky lighting situations, or when using one or more flash units. I also almost never use auto ISO.
Metering
FOR NOW, set the camera for "Evaluative metering" (p92 of the manual), and leave it there.
This does a good job of getting a decent exposure in the vast majority of cases.
As you progress, you might want to look at using spot metering, which is really useful when shooting a subject which is small and light, with a dark background, or vice versa.
Also exposure compensation is another useful tool to look at in tricky lighting, but leave these for now until you find you are having trouble with exposure from the evaluative metering setting.
By the way, if you do decide to have a play with exposure compensation, to enable it, you have to turn the camera "fully on" - the main camera on/off switch has 3 positions (Off, On, and --/) use the final one to enable exposure compensation.
Good luck, have fun, and feel free to post up future images and any questions that come to mind.
Firstly, regarding controls, I think that with a bit of experience/practise, you'll soon become comfortable with making adjustments quickly.
Years ago, I changed from Minolta kit, and had to decide whether to go Nikon or Canon. I tried both, and ended up with a Canon 40D (as opposed to a Nikon D300), basically because for me I preferred the menu setup. Others prefer different manufacturers (e.g. Simpo uses Nikon kit AFAIK). Regardless, they all allow the same adjustments, and I'm sure had I gone down the Nikon route, I'd be very happy with that as well.
Once you are familiar with a manufacturer, the controls tend to remain pretty consistend between models. I say this having gone from a Canon 40D to 5Dmk1, 5Dmk3, and now R5.
A couple of comments on the photos:
The one of the lake, and the one of the snowdrops in the dark were both shot with very high shutter speeds (1/1600 and 1/1000). A general rule of thumb regarding shutter speeds is that if the subject isn't really moving (so not an "action" shot), you can usually get away with a shutter speed as slow as the reciprocal of the focal length of the lens.
For example, if using a 200mm lens, it is generally possible to get a sharp shot using 1/200 of a second when hand holding the camera.
In the case of the snowdrops in the dark, assuming you were still using the 28-80mm lens, you could have used a shutter speed of 1/100th second, enabling a much brighter exposure.
Suggestion on a possible way forward
ISO, aperture and shutter speed control
In order to reduce the complications of which control does what, you might like to try the following:
Set the ISO manually (turn off auto ISO) for something appropriate for what you are shooting - the type of scenes above I'd tend to go for 200 or 400 ISO. Don't then change the ISO unless you have a specific need to. For all the shots above, you could have left it on ISO 400 for the whole day.
Set the camera for Aperture Priority auto exposure (Av).
Use the dial on the top of the camera just behind the shutter release to change aperture using your right index finger - this is easy to do even while looking through the viewfinder.
(See page 88 of the manual)
As I'm sure you're aware, the camera then sets an appropriate shutter speed which is displayed in the viewfinder.
If you want greater depth of field, set a smaller aperture and just keep an eye on the shutter speed remaining fast enough.
If you are suddenly faced with the heron flying, rather than change modes, leave it in Av mode and simply set a wider aperture, which will instantly give you a faster shutter speed to help freeze movement.
In this way, you've only got to worry about the one dial, and the shutter button for AF, and shutter release.
Go out and try the above for a couple of sessions and see how you get on before worrying about full manual, auto ISO, Tv, exposure compensation etc..
Personally, I shoot probably 90% of shots in Av mode, only switching to manual for very specific reasons - mainly in particularly tricky lighting situations, or when using one or more flash units. I also almost never use auto ISO.
Metering
FOR NOW, set the camera for "Evaluative metering" (p92 of the manual), and leave it there.
This does a good job of getting a decent exposure in the vast majority of cases.
As you progress, you might want to look at using spot metering, which is really useful when shooting a subject which is small and light, with a dark background, or vice versa.
Also exposure compensation is another useful tool to look at in tricky lighting, but leave these for now until you find you are having trouble with exposure from the evaluative metering setting.
By the way, if you do decide to have a play with exposure compensation, to enable it, you have to turn the camera "fully on" - the main camera on/off switch has 3 positions (Off, On, and --/) use the final one to enable exposure compensation.
Good luck, have fun, and feel free to post up future images and any questions that come to mind.
Edited by C n C on Monday 16th January 15:43
^^^ Pretty much what I do. I choose a general purpose ISO (eg 800), set the aperture to around f4.5 and off I go. Shutter is generally not important; if it gets too slow just increase ISO or open the lens up. I use +/-EV to correct the exposure if needed, using either the histogram or zebra (flashing white bits). Metering is centre weighted and focus is usually AF single point.
Eventually you'll be able to look at a scene and get it right pretty much first time, or at least near enough to perfect in Photoshop etc.
Auto-ISO can fight against you - eg if you want to make the scene darker, it will simply raise the ISO to keep it wrong... I never use it.
Eventually you'll be able to look at a scene and get it right pretty much first time, or at least near enough to perfect in Photoshop etc.
Auto-ISO can fight against you - eg if you want to make the scene darker, it will simply raise the ISO to keep it wrong... I never use it.
More or less what I do too. However I work with the lowest ISO that I can.
Increasing ISO increases sensor noise, although I admit it's barely perceptible over the first few settings.
So, start with the lowest available ISO, then either:
* Select aperture to achieve required depth of field and allow metering to determine shutter speed
or
* Select shutter speed to freeze moving subject and allow metering to determine aperture.
Then check exposure is OK, then check shutter speed against focal length, adjust ISO if required and go back around the loop. By which time the thing I'm trying to snap has buggered off, or the people I'm photographing are bored and have grumpy faces.
I mean you get to know that the lowest ISO setting isn't going to work in low light, so no point in starting there, may as well go directly to something higher, but hopefully you get my point, which is always work with the lowest practical ISO.
Increasing ISO increases sensor noise, although I admit it's barely perceptible over the first few settings.
So, start with the lowest available ISO, then either:
* Select aperture to achieve required depth of field and allow metering to determine shutter speed
or
* Select shutter speed to freeze moving subject and allow metering to determine aperture.
Then check exposure is OK, then check shutter speed against focal length, adjust ISO if required and go back around the loop. By which time the thing I'm trying to snap has buggered off, or the people I'm photographing are bored and have grumpy faces.
I mean you get to know that the lowest ISO setting isn't going to work in low light, so no point in starting there, may as well go directly to something higher, but hopefully you get my point, which is always work with the lowest practical ISO.
Thanks, all three of you. Any feedback much appreciated, especially when it comes from folk familiar with this particular camera.@C nC - I've checked my settings against your suggestions and made changes where necessary. I'll give that method a go for my next few "shoots" (pro as owt, me :rolf: )
I went out again yesterday, albeit too late in the afternoon for any sort of decent light. Here are a few of the results...
Lens: 28-80mm (f3.5-5.6) zoom, some with polarizing filter fitted.
28mm, f7.1, 1/50, ISO 200. Under water footpath.
28mm, f5.6, 1/40, ISO640. Another impassable path (in the shoes I had on at any rate)
28mm, f7.1, 1/30, ISO1600. I took a couple of dozen variations of this one, trying to 'freeze' and 'blur' the water. Some were so dark as to be useless, hence jacking up the ISO. This was the one I was happiest with as a representation of what my eyes were seeing.
50mm, f5.6, 1/60, ISO100. ISO cranked back down and a bollard used to rest the camera. Traffic delays due to emergency gas works. Again, loads of shots taken, this was (comparatively) quite crisp and a small crop was all that was needed to exclude half a pub menu sign. I lost the sign on the left and a little of the foreground road surface. That would be something to do with the 90% viewfinder coverage, I'm guessing, as it wasn't in the image I'd composed.
33mm, f5.6, 1/25, ISO800. Swans at Old Iford Bridge. I'd have preferred more detail in the feathers, but I'll try again in better light to get that right.
33mm f5.6, 1/20, ISO 800. Old Iford Bridge itself. What light there was was falling on the other side of the bridge. Uncropped image, including half of a 'Danger, Deep Water' sign which wasn't within the composition in the viewfinder. I think I need to make allowances for this phenomenon while setting up my shots.
Lens swap to: 75-300mm (f4-5.6) zoom...
150mm, f5.6, 1/6, ISO800. Camera rested on the top of the bridge. Some time had now elapsed and I'd all but given up on the light for taking more pictures, and even got a glimpse of a fast moving Kingfisher while the lens cap was on. But I liked the reflection of the private driveway's 'street' lamp on the river so got the camera back out. I don't think it's particularly good technically, but I like the warmth of the yellowy lamp light. This one has been cropped to exclude a 'One Way' sign on the drive (top right) and I've tried to accentuate the warmth of the light with basic editing tools in Windows file manager
75mm, f4, 1/60, ISO800. This was taken to try to establish the boundaries of flash free night time shooting. The tree was lit (almost from within it's branches) by a white LED streetlamp at top right. I was across the street from it using a lot of zoom on a 75-300 f4-5.6 lens. Again there are technical improvements to make, but for an unsupported "freehand" shot I like the result.
One or two things I'm getting used to, as observations. One is the flexibility of having a whole range of "film speeds" loaded all at once, instead of being tied to whichever film speed was loaded with a 35mm camera. Two is the liberating feeling at being free to experiment with blatantly "wrong" aperture and shutter settings without the expense of dozens of useless prints coming back. The only drawback is "using up" the shutter count, but hey? I've already got my eye on either another 40D body, or perhaps something like a 7D, "just in case" this one fails.
I went out again yesterday, albeit too late in the afternoon for any sort of decent light. Here are a few of the results...
Lens: 28-80mm (f3.5-5.6) zoom, some with polarizing filter fitted.
28mm, f7.1, 1/50, ISO 200. Under water footpath.
28mm, f5.6, 1/40, ISO640. Another impassable path (in the shoes I had on at any rate)
28mm, f7.1, 1/30, ISO1600. I took a couple of dozen variations of this one, trying to 'freeze' and 'blur' the water. Some were so dark as to be useless, hence jacking up the ISO. This was the one I was happiest with as a representation of what my eyes were seeing.
50mm, f5.6, 1/60, ISO100. ISO cranked back down and a bollard used to rest the camera. Traffic delays due to emergency gas works. Again, loads of shots taken, this was (comparatively) quite crisp and a small crop was all that was needed to exclude half a pub menu sign. I lost the sign on the left and a little of the foreground road surface. That would be something to do with the 90% viewfinder coverage, I'm guessing, as it wasn't in the image I'd composed.
33mm, f5.6, 1/25, ISO800. Swans at Old Iford Bridge. I'd have preferred more detail in the feathers, but I'll try again in better light to get that right.
33mm f5.6, 1/20, ISO 800. Old Iford Bridge itself. What light there was was falling on the other side of the bridge. Uncropped image, including half of a 'Danger, Deep Water' sign which wasn't within the composition in the viewfinder. I think I need to make allowances for this phenomenon while setting up my shots.
Lens swap to: 75-300mm (f4-5.6) zoom...
150mm, f5.6, 1/6, ISO800. Camera rested on the top of the bridge. Some time had now elapsed and I'd all but given up on the light for taking more pictures, and even got a glimpse of a fast moving Kingfisher while the lens cap was on. But I liked the reflection of the private driveway's 'street' lamp on the river so got the camera back out. I don't think it's particularly good technically, but I like the warmth of the yellowy lamp light. This one has been cropped to exclude a 'One Way' sign on the drive (top right) and I've tried to accentuate the warmth of the light with basic editing tools in Windows file manager
75mm, f4, 1/60, ISO800. This was taken to try to establish the boundaries of flash free night time shooting. The tree was lit (almost from within it's branches) by a white LED streetlamp at top right. I was across the street from it using a lot of zoom on a 75-300 f4-5.6 lens. Again there are technical improvements to make, but for an unsupported "freehand" shot I like the result.
One or two things I'm getting used to, as observations. One is the flexibility of having a whole range of "film speeds" loaded all at once, instead of being tied to whichever film speed was loaded with a 35mm camera. Two is the liberating feeling at being free to experiment with blatantly "wrong" aperture and shutter settings without the expense of dozens of useless prints coming back. The only drawback is "using up" the shutter count, but hey? I've already got my eye on either another 40D body, or perhaps something like a 7D, "just in case" this one fails.
Interesting ideas; for me I think none are winners simply because the light was bad.
If you're shooting manual exposure and juggling three parameters, well, it's an interesting challenge but perhaps not the most efficient way to get good photos in the bag, and easy to confuse yourself.
In the scenarios above my thought process would be:
That's an interesting scene, I'll have a go at photographing it.
If the scene is a bit dim - open aperture to f3.5. With a wide-ish angle lens this often gives acceptable DOF.
If it's very dim - raise ISO to 1000+
Now frame up, get the focus point right and take the shot.
Look at it using histogram or highlights. Never just look at the picture to judge exposure (in low light it will look much brighter than it actually is, and vice versa)
Either - yep, that's in the ball-park...
Or - damn, not right. How much EV to use? Look at histogram. Ah that much. Dial it in and take the shot again. Keep going until it's good.
Zoom in close to check focus and camera movement (I have a button set to do this with one touch)
If not sharp, consider why - did the AF miss? Try again. Was the shutter speed too slow? Add more aperture or ISO to make it faster (or rest the camera/use a tripod)
It sounds complex when written out but actually only takes a few seconds. It's about knowing roughly what settings to use in advance, what to look for in the resulting photo and how to improve it if required.
yellowjack said:
28mm, f7.1, 1/30, ISO1600. I took a couple of dozen variations of this one, trying to 'freeze' and 'blur' the water. Some were so dark as to be useless, hence jacking up the ISO.
My first move would be to open the aperture (unless you wanted the DOF of f7.1). The first thing I think of in low light is (a) wider aperture (b) flash.yellowjack said:
Again, loads of shots taken, this was (comparatively) quite crisp and a small crop was all that was needed to exclude half a pub menu sign. I lost the sign on the left and a little of the foreground road surface. That would be something to do with the 90% viewfinder coverage, I'm guessing, as it wasn't in the image I'd composed....
Uncropped image, including half of a 'Danger, Deep Water' sign which wasn't within the composition in the viewfinder. I think I need to make allowances for this phenomenon while setting up my shots.
Viewfinders almost always show slightly less than the camera will record. I think this goes back to the film days when printing could slice bits off, so that way they made up for it. I wouldn't waste brainspace trying to get the edges in exactly the right place; there's nothing wrong with a little cropping.Uncropped image, including half of a 'Danger, Deep Water' sign which wasn't within the composition in the viewfinder. I think I need to make allowances for this phenomenon while setting up my shots.
If you're shooting manual exposure and juggling three parameters, well, it's an interesting challenge but perhaps not the most efficient way to get good photos in the bag, and easy to confuse yourself.
In the scenarios above my thought process would be:
That's an interesting scene, I'll have a go at photographing it.
If the scene is a bit dim - open aperture to f3.5. With a wide-ish angle lens this often gives acceptable DOF.
If it's very dim - raise ISO to 1000+
Now frame up, get the focus point right and take the shot.
Look at it using histogram or highlights. Never just look at the picture to judge exposure (in low light it will look much brighter than it actually is, and vice versa)
Either - yep, that's in the ball-park...
Or - damn, not right. How much EV to use? Look at histogram. Ah that much. Dial it in and take the shot again. Keep going until it's good.
Zoom in close to check focus and camera movement (I have a button set to do this with one touch)
If not sharp, consider why - did the AF miss? Try again. Was the shutter speed too slow? Add more aperture or ISO to make it faster (or rest the camera/use a tripod)
It sounds complex when written out but actually only takes a few seconds. It's about knowing roughly what settings to use in advance, what to look for in the resulting photo and how to improve it if required.
Simpo Two said:
Look at it using histogram or highlights. Never just look at the picture to judge exposure (in low light it will look much brighter than it actually is, and vice versa)
Either - yep, that's in the ball-park...
Or - damn, not right. How much EV to use? Look at histogram. Ah that much. Dial it in and take the shot again. Keep going until it's good.
Zoom in close to check focus and camera movement (I have a button set to do this with one touch)
If not sharp, consider why - did the AF miss? Try again. Was the shutter speed too slow? Add more aperture or ISO to make it faster (or rest the camera/use a tripod)
It sounds complex when written out but actually only takes a few seconds. It's about knowing roughly what settings to use in advance, what to look for in the resulting photo and how to improve it if required.
Sounds daft, but what exactly am I looking for with the Histogram? I can see one, but I've little idea what it actually means. In Digital Photo Pro I've found I can manipulate Image Tone Curves on the Histogram graph, and I can pull the lines around by eye but I've no idea what "good" values look like on the screen on the camera. My 35mm manual SLR definitely didn't have such a thing, and my phone's camera doesn't have the facility as far as I'm aware.Either - yep, that's in the ball-park...
Or - damn, not right. How much EV to use? Look at histogram. Ah that much. Dial it in and take the shot again. Keep going until it's good.
Zoom in close to check focus and camera movement (I have a button set to do this with one touch)
If not sharp, consider why - did the AF miss? Try again. Was the shutter speed too slow? Add more aperture or ISO to make it faster (or rest the camera/use a tripod)
It sounds complex when written out but actually only takes a few seconds. It's about knowing roughly what settings to use in advance, what to look for in the resulting photo and how to improve it if required.
Zooming in to check focus and 'shake'? Again, not something I've had the opportunity to do before, so it's a case of getting used to preview being available and using it. I think, at the moment, that it'd be more important if I thought I'd managed a great composition, to ensure the captured image didn't let it down. To be honest, right now I'm over-excited when using the camera, taking loads of shots of random subjects with mediocre composition just to get a feel for the camera limits and to get used to the controls. Stopping to study the image on the back screen isn't something I'm prioritising because I don't want to "waste" time before haring off up the path to take more shots. To begin with I was worried about "using up" my shutter count in the same way as I'd have been worried about "wasting" an exposure with a 35mm cassette film. It took a day or two but I've become rather "trigger happy" now.
The controls are still unfamiliar to me but I'm beginning to understand what things do, especially controls I simply didn't have before. I feel like I'm making some headway, at least. Between the advice on here, on youtube, in the book I bought and in the Canon User Manual it's all starting to make sense. Pinning down starting aperture ans ISO settings will be relatively simple I reckon. It's knowing what to look for, and how to look for it in the resulting photo that'll take the getting used to.
Also, random "age related frustration". I can't read the LCD screen on top, or the display on the rear of the body, without putting on my reading glasses. Heck, I can barely see what the dial is set to without the specs. I'm OK through the viewfinder with the diopter set for me, but I think part of why I'm not checking the images I've taken is the "glasses on, glasses off, glasses on, glasses off" nonsense. I'm going to have to work through that, or find a work around but, at the moment, it's a source of frustration for me. I'm also colourblind, so adjusting colour, etc, "by eye" looks great to me but probably not to everyone else so I should probably lay off the editing tools a bit...
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