Any Sony users here?

[StevieBee]

Looking to add to my arsenal one of the higher end mirrorless Sony cameras. Currently honing in on the Sony A7 IV.

I need a second video camera to compliment my FX6 but also a top drawer stills camera for which I'm currently using the Nikon D850 so will be trading that in for the Sony.

Reviews and homework suggests the A7 to fit the bill on function and image quality but keen to hear any real-world advice and experience.

[GetCarter]

I moved from full frame Nikon to Sony A7R mk2 and have never regretted it. (You'll know the difference between A7 and A7R) - Image quality is top drawer and it's considerably lighter and smaller to lug around.

Am currently deciding whether to upgrade to A7R mk4 or mk5 (both monster res).

Edited by GetCarter on Thursday 23 February 08:29

[Lynchie999]

I have the A73 and A7R3 ...

Both are great, AF on the R isn't as great as the A73 but the R variant is better built (is heavier) with better weather sealing imo... (differences you can't see on the spec sheet) not sure if this is still the case with the mk4 variants...

Edited by Lynchie999 on Thursday 23 February 11:36

[Fordo]

StevieBee said:

Looking to add to my arsenal one of the higher end mirrorless Sony cameras. Currently honing in on the Sony A7 IV.

I need a second video camera to compliment my FX6 but also a top drawer stills camera for which I'm currently using the Nikon D850 so will be trading that in for the Sony.

Reviews and homework suggests the A7 to fit the bill on function and image quality but keen to hear any real-world advice and experience.

Oh im your man here. I have an FX6 for work, and also have an A7iv

Short answer - yes, buy it.


Longer answer;

I come from a documentary background, started in the video world about 20 years ago doing news. I mainly work as a DOP now, mixture of stuff, studio work, on location, music vids, etc - you name it, ive probably lit or shot something like it.

Swicthed back to Sony last year - Id gone over to Canon, but found their cinema / video line, c300iii and c70 dissapoitning. Pretty noisey in low light, and ergonomics of the c70 are woeful. (too small to be an A cam, too big to be a B cam

Went back to sony with the FX6, and loved it. Great all rouner, great form factor. With a few extra bits, works well on the shoulder, but compact enough for travel work.

That brings me to A7iv - i wanted a small b cam as a 2nd camera for interviews, and to pop on car rigs, gimbals, or top down cooking show type stuff.

Wasnt up to speed with the latest A series stuff from Sony. I was disappointed with previous gen stuff - 8 bit codecs, recording limitations, and the colours always needed a lot of work to match any of their cinema line pro cameras.

So i got all nerdy and did an excel sheet, my findings were:

FX3 - Video centric, full frame, no crop mode, no viewfinder. Does have timecode in
FX30 - Video centric, s35 / crop sensor, no viewfinder. Does have timecode in

A7 S iii - Hybrid, Full frame, has viewfinder, no timecode in.
A7 R iv - Hybrid, Full frame, much more photo centric, does 8k, very spendy, no timecode in.

A7iv - Hybrid, Full frame and S35 crop mode, has viewfinder, no timecode in.

In the venn diagram of features of all Sony's mirrorless offerings, it seemed to be right in the middle. Good at everything. - no one outstanding thing, but dioes all things well.

For me, the FX3 and FX30 were out for my needs. As much as id really want timecode in, i really prefer the features of the A7iv - EVF for use in sunny days, higher res stills for timelapses, and anility to do a 4k S35 crop.

And ive been impressed, which is hard to do.

• Pros*

- Colours match FX6 reasonably well. It's not absolutely the same, but in both slog3 and s-cinetone mode, its very very close. I spent some time with my A7iv & FX6 and a colour chart, and tweaked its profiles and WB offsets very very slightly to match fx6 better still. Overall, the latest gen of Sonys colour science is really nice, really feels improved over the FS7 and older alphas now.

- 4k crop mode is great. In video, its just as sharp as the full frame mode, as even the crop mode is sampled from a 4.3k area on the sensor. I've mapped this to a button on the back, and its like all my lenses now have a little more reach.

- Image stabilisation. Now all my primes have IS magically! (2 modes, one normal where sensor moves around, one extreme where it combines that with actually cropping in to sensor and shifting whole picture around to stabilise. Dont use the extreme one with s35 crop, as youre cropping beyond 4k at that point). Normal mode works great in 99% of scenarios.

- Autofocus tech. Its a game changer. And i dont like AF! But now, on things like a a B cam on interviews, i can just set and forget. Eye autofcus? - you can even tell it which eye you want it to keep sharp! I do find its best when you know what you want, and change the AF settings to accomodate what shot you want or the lens you are using.

- I can set the LUT (well, 'view assist') mapped to a custom button. So when in slog3, its nice to be able to flip it on and off, to know what ive got in the highlights.

- No recording time limit, like older alpha cameras

- Take same media as FX6 (SDXC or Cf express type A. But it is more fussy. FX6 will happily record 50/60fps to V90 SDXC cards. A7iv is fussier, and demands CF express cards for anything over 30fps. Daft, as they are recording the same codec and resolution.....)

- Easy to use. Theres an extra ring below the mode dial, so you can swicth between stills, video, and S&Q modes. And with IS, view assist and S35 mode all mapped to custom buttons, i find it so quick and easy to use, without needing to dive into menus all the time.

- Runs off USB C power. Very handy not needing an extra mains power lead with me, can just use my macbook charger

• Cons*

- On a long interview, i once got an overheat warning. (unlike FX range, it has no fan inside). But, found you can change the 'overtemp' warning in the menu, from standard to high. Never had an overheat issue since, even filming things like hour long events, as a fixed wide. But do keep the screen hinged out, not tucked in. The surface behind where the screen parks, is apparently the heatsink. I probably wouldnt take it to go hour long shots in a jungle, or very hot countries, but see no issues in normal use in the UK.

- 50fps and 60fps are only available in the 4k crop mode. Not a big one for me, i just goto wider lenses when i need that kind of slow mo on this cam.

- When filming slog3, The built in LUT isnt the same as the FX6's luts. So for multicam, the outputs will look a little different. (not a huge issue for me, i usually set noth cams to output slog3, and apply a lut on the directors monitor). I know this is where the FX3 and FX30 shine, they have the same luts as the rest of sony's cinema line, and ability to load them in.

- No timecode in. Mostly for me, not a huge issue. I'll do a rough TC sync manually on interviews, and sometimes when im working with a soundie i'll get the to run a tentacle syn into the audio port. But i wouldnt use it on a huge multicam show - for that id hire FX3 or FX30's in



Final thoughts

Its a cracking all rounder, and has a lot of features i wish my FX6 had - like a s35 crop mode, image stabilisation, and an extra video codec (it can do the same XAVC-I as the FX6, but also has 10 bit H264 and H265 modes, if you ever need a bit more record time).

So to me the only downsides are lack of TC in, and 60fps only in s35 crop mode. If you need TC = FX range. If you need 60fps in full frame = A7siii.

But if you want a cam that can be both full frame and s35, with high res still = A7iv

Oh lastly, some youtubers moan about the rolling shutter. Ive not found that an issue at all. For normal use, interviews, gimbal shots, general b roll, its fine. Aggressive whip pans are not really my style for most shoots! I probably wouldn't use it for 600mm long lens motorsports pans, but thats about it.


Let me know if you have any queries

Edited by Fordo on Friday 24th February 17:23

[GetCarter]

BTW, see Fordo for video

[StevieBee]

Fordo said:

StevieBee said:

Looking to add to my arsenal one of the higher end mirrorless Sony cameras. Currently honing in on the Sony A7 IV.

I need a second video camera to compliment my FX6 but also a top drawer stills camera for which I'm currently using the Nikon D850 so will be trading that in for the Sony.

Reviews and homework suggests the A7 to fit the bill on function and image quality but keen to hear any real-world advice and experience.

Oh im your man here. I have an FX6 for work, and also have an A7iv

.....great insights.....

Thanks so much Fordo. That is truly superb insight.

This is the second time you’ve provided me such terrific insight. I’m beginning to think that I may be due an invoice from you for consultancy!

The previous time, to remind you, was on the subject of the BM6KP. Got that and had it for around a year. All of your observations were spot on. A truly terrific camera for the money. But as you alluded to, it’s ergonomics become an annoyance. I never fell in love with it. Never felt part of me which for me is an important part of photography and filmmaking. Plus I got fed up with having to build Meccano every time I went out with it.

I kept looking at the FX6 and had one of those ‘ahh – sod it’ moments and did the swap. Not looked back since. Way too much for what I need 95% of the time but so’ my Lotus Elise and I love that too!

Anyway, I think you and GetCarter have sealed the deal on the choice of B-Camera.

Who needs money? I’d only squander it on food and heating.

[Simpo Two]

GetCarter said:

BTW, see Fordo for video

Needs to fix his URL - the one in his profile is defunct.

StevieBee said:

Who needs money? I’d only squander it on food and heating.

What rock star was it who said that he'd spent most of his money on coke and hookers, and wasted the rest?

[Fordo]

Simpo Two said:

Needs to fix his URL - the one in his profile is defunct.

Oh thanks for spotting that! - changed my website years ago but hadn't updated my profile on here

[singlecoil]

I'm a Sony user (or I will be once the battery is charged ). Ordered on Monday, arrived this morning from Hong Kong. But this camera is mainly for stills so all I can say is that from everything I've seen and read, for your use case you should go with the A7 IV mentioned earlier.

[Fordo]

StevieBee said:

Thanks so much Fordo. That is truly superb insight.

This is the second time you’ve provided me such terrific insight. I’m beginning to think that I may be due an invoice from you for consultancy!

The previous time, to remind you, was on the subject of the BM6KP. Got that and had it for around a year. All of your observations were spot on. A truly terrific camera for the money. But as you alluded to, it’s ergonomics become an annoyance. I never fell in love with it. Never felt part of me which for me is an important part of photography and filmmaking. Plus I got fed up with having to build Meccano every time I went out with it.

I kept looking at the FX6 and had one of those ‘ahh – sod it’ moments and did the swap. Not looked back since. Way too much for what I need 95% of the time but so’ my Lotus Elise and I love that too!

Anyway, I think you and GetCarter have sealed the deal on the choice of B-Camera.

Who needs money? I’d only squander it on food and heating.

Ah thanks for the kinds words - Glad my ramblings are of some use!

I know exactly what you mean about the ergonomics / feeling a part of you. It's so important. After using the black magics a lot for studio work, and then struggling with Canons latest offerings, i knew id made the right choice when i put FX6 together (with a couple of extra bits, like an arm for the handle), and popped it up on my shoulder, and it just felt right at home. Buttons where I need them, EVF where it should be, up front not at the back, etc

When shooting now I just forget about the tech and the thing itself, and I can just concentrate on pointing the glass end at interesting things and pressing the rec button

[Simpo Two]

Fordo said:

Oh thanks for spotting that! - changed my website years ago but hadn't updated my profile on here

Happy to assist, usual fee applies

Fordo said:

When shooting now I just forget about the tech and the thing itself, and I can just concentrate on pointing the glass end at interesting things and pressing the rec button

As it should be - just as when we drive a car we use the controls without thinking so we can concentrate on the road

[Easternlight]

Simpo Two said:

GetCarter said:

BTW, see Fordo for video

Needs to fix his URL - the one in his profile is defunct.

StevieBee said:

Who needs money? I’d only squander it on food and heating.

What rock star was it who said that he'd spent most of his money on coke and hookers, and wasted the rest?

[steveatesh]

StevieBee said:

.

Who needs money? I’d only squander it on food and heating.

If you go down that line and are grossly overweight, get your nails and eyebrows done and you can pimp yourself out for intervIew by news media saying you can’t afford either……

[anonymous-user]

GetCarter said:

I moved from full frame Nikon to Sony A7R mk2 and have never regretted it. (You'll know the difference between A7 and A7R) - Image quality is top drawer and it's considerably lighter and smaller to lug around.

Am currently deciding whether to upgrade to A7R mk4 or mk5 (both monster res).

Same here.

I moved from Nikon DSLR to a pair of A7 II bodies and a section of prime lenses such as Sony GM 85mm 1.4, 35mm 1.4, and so on. It was like stepping into the future and I was totally blown away by the images, plus, the compact size of mirrorless was fantastic.

I have shot some of my best ever pictures on my A7 bodies. Sadly, due to work, children, and other stuff I just wasn't using them and sold them a year or so ago.

I now have a Ricoh GRIII which I love and use a lot as I just stick it in my bag/jacket etc.

If I was going back to an interchangeable lens system, it would be Sony mirrorless for sure. I wouldn't even look at Nikon or Canon, and I say that as a Nikon user of years and years.

[Bungleaio]

I've been using sony since the NEX 5 in 2010, now using an A7R4a. It's wasted on me really but I like it.

[singlecoil]

Bungleaio said:

I've been using sony since the NEX 5 in 2010, now using an A7R4a. It's wasted on me really but I like it.

It's useful to be able to rule out the camera as a cause when one's pictures aren't as good as one would want them to be

[anonymous-user]

singlecoil said:

Bungleaio said:

I've been using sony since the NEX 5 in 2010, now using an A7R4a. It's wasted on me really but I like it.

It's useful to be able to rule out the camera as a cause when one's pictures aren't as good as one would want them to be

That is exactly the mentality that made my photography improve so much.

When I first got my A7 II and a £1400 80mm 1.4 lens, I told myself that if my photos were rubbish, then I only had myself to blame as I pretty much had 'the best of gear' in my hands, give or take.

My photos were instantly a heck of a lot better, and it really was my old Nikon crop sensor DSLR gear that was holding me back (for the type of photography I did). Owning full frame mirrorless really pushed me on and I got pretty good

[Simpo Two]

Lord Marylebone said:

My photos were instantly a heck of a lot better, and it really was my old Nikon crop sensor DSLR gear that was holding me back (for the type of photography I did). Owning full frame mirrorless really pushed me on and I got pretty good

Interesting. Assuming you were doing exactly the same thing with both cameras, what was it about the mirrorless over a DSLR that suddenly made your photos better?

[Bungleaio]

Quality of lenses has helped me. They are way better on full frame than I had on the cropped sensor, I'm saving for the new 24-70 gm2 though.

[anonymous-user]

Simpo Two said:

Lord Marylebone said:

My photos were instantly a heck of a lot better, and it really was my old Nikon crop sensor DSLR gear that was holding me back (for the type of photography I did). Owning full frame mirrorless really pushed me on and I got pretty good

Interesting. Assuming you were doing exactly the same thing with both cameras, what was it about the mirrorless over a DSLR that suddenly made your photos better?

IMO, it was a combination of sensor/camera tech and lenses, but mostly the lenses I think.

I had come from a D7000 and was mostly using it with a Nikon 17-55 2.8 plus a Nikon 50mm 1.8, as I'm sure you are aware the 17-55 is their 'professional' lens for crop sensor with a price tag to match, so I was at least trying to use decent gear.

Almost all my photos were candid shots of moving subjects (people), handheld, in variable daylight, with variable and changeable foreground/background. I shot a lot of candid documentary style photos.

I never felt I was getting the ultra shallow depth of field that I wanted, and when I tried an 70-200 2.8, it was just way too zoomy for the crop sensor. I had to be too far away from the subjects to capture a scene fully. It was very limiting in that respect, especially if you haven’t got the room to keep going back and moving all the time. It was pointless on a crop sensor.

The 50mm was a lot better for capturing the scene without constantly moving back, but the shallow DoF was nowhere near what I wanted.

I also felt my images in general were lacking that absolute razor sharpness I was wanting in my images. My final complaint was the grain that crept in even at fairly low ISO as the light fell.

As soon as changed to the Sony and new lenses I knew it was all way better. The in body stabilisation system on the Sony allowed my photos to be sharper by controlling some handheld shake, the camera handled higher ISO’s much better as the light fell, and lenses like the 85mm 1.4 changed my life.

I could get that ultra sharp image, with razor sharp focus, even at wide open at 1.4 with the shallowest of DoF, and not even having to be anywhere near as far away from the subject as I would have with the crop sensor. I could be a 'normal' shooting distance. Plus at 1.4, my shutter speeds were higher and my ISO lower, so nicer shaper and less grainy images.

I guess it depends on what photography you do. I used to do a lot of long exposure ‘tripod at night‘ stuff in cities, and I got really great results with all kinds of cameras and lenses, mostly because I didn’t need good ISO performance as the camera was locked down to ISO100 or whatever, I didn’t need stabilisation as it was on a tripod, and I didn’t need lenses that were sharp wide open as they were always stopped down to f8-11 etc to ensure a good focal range, and that usually ensures they were at their sharpest aperture, and I didn’t need rapid burst, or anything else. I just fixed the Aperture and the ISO, and let the camera take as long as it wanted with the shutter.

But when you are rolling around in a field and forest, trying to capture moving people shooting pheasants in varying daylight, with seconds to get each shot before they turn the other way or whatever, needing both shallow DoF for aesthetics, and fast shutter speeds, then all of those things I got with full frame were helpful. Much better quality lenses, longer focal lengths without the longer distance to subject, larger apertures, very good in body stabilisation, better ISO handling, etc etc.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 1st March 08:22