Canon 30D Announced
Discussion
looks like very little in new 'normal user' additional features. The one thing I would like on the 20D that the 30D does give is the 3.5% metering. Other than that, if looking to buy now I would be tempted to save quite a bit and buy a 'run-out' discounted 20D. I'm very happy with the 20D and looks like I will be for a few more years yet!
_dobbo_ said:And in doing so, they achieved 3 things.
a minor upgrade to the 20D. they are trying to distance it from the 5D
1) Obviously, they did distance it from the 5D. And succeeded in doing so by not giving it ANY significantly improved features.
2) More D200 sales will come about, from newcomers opting for 10mp vs 8mp spec. It only takes a bit of sales patter to sway a complete beginner in 'showroom conditions'
Most people have an inbuilt 'more and bigger is better' program running in their heads. Rightly so, a better model is always around the corner. 3) More to the point, whilst 'some' 20D owners might have upgraded, I would be very surprised to see anyone upgrade from the 20D to the 30D this time round.
Yes there are minor improvements, but after 18 months of waiting I expected more. Time to read that 5D spec again!
Get the 20D for a snip and buy a really f**k-off lens with the extra dosh 
Reason being, the image from a 30D will look exactly the same as a 20D.
Edited to say: Of course, as you rightly point out, the D200 has a massive two-million pixel advantage..
>> Edited by simpo two on Tuesday 21st February 11:30
Reason being, the image from a 30D will look exactly the same as a 20D.
Edited to say: Of course, as you rightly point out, the D200 has a massive two-million pixel advantage..
>> Edited by simpo two on Tuesday 21st February 11:30
_dobbo_ said:Can I ask my PH bretherin to hold me by the hand, and talk me through the "why a 5D is better" approach.
Exactly what I was thinking Bob.
Seems to me you either save a bunch of cash and get a 20D, or otherwise spend a bunch more cash and get a 5D...
SPEND SPEND SPEND GET THE 5D
With that 70-200 IS lens Ive been going on and on about
when I've zoomed in and framed the subject, Id much rather have a 13mp image than an 8mp image. What concerns my 'beginner brain' though, is the lack of shooting modes on the 5D. Or more specifically, how long will trial and error take in manual mode before I get the hang of things - how much is there to it? Might I look back, or is that just the amateur in me thinking this way?
Come on guys, sing the praises of the 5D, tell me why Im going to like about it so much and why I wont regret buying it over the 20/30D
For anyone that is interested they also released a new lense (details below) I was sent the details of both a few weeks ago, still after a sample unit 
regards
R2TR
Canon is also pleased to announce the launch of its latest professional L-series prime lens: the exceptionally fast EF 85mm f/1.2 II USM. With the widest aperture of any lens in the current EF range, the new model becomes Canon's definitive portraiture lens, offering extremely fine control over depth of field and consummate low light performance. With vastly improved auto focus speed, the lens replaces the popular EF 85mm f/1.2L USM. As with all L-series lenses, the EF 85mm f/1.2 II USM incorporates the very finest standards of precision optics.
The EF 85mm f/1.2 II USM features:
· Canon's finest standards of image quality
· Latest Ultrasonic Motor (USM) for fast and near silent auto focus
· Full-time electronic manual focus override
· Super Spectra coatings and optimised lens element shaping to suppress flare and ghosting
· Large circular aperture diaphragm for good background bokeh and 'removal' of distracting backgrounds
· Distance information passed back to the new E-TTL II flash algorithm of all current model digital EOS cameras
· Lens hood and pouch included in the box.
In addition, Canon today strengthens its EF-S lens series with the launch of the Image Stabilised wide angle EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM. With image quality and construction approaching that of Canon's renowned professional lenses, the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM becomes the fastest standard focal length zoom for EF–S mount cameras such as the new EOS 30D. Combining constant f/2.8 aperture throughout the zoom range with Canon's latest 3-stop Image Stabiliser, it delivers outstanding wide angle performance and framing flexibility in low light conditions. Specialist optics such as UD glass and aspherical elements help deliver exceptional clarity, sharpness, contrast and colour accuracy.
regards
R2TR
Canon is also pleased to announce the launch of its latest professional L-series prime lens: the exceptionally fast EF 85mm f/1.2 II USM. With the widest aperture of any lens in the current EF range, the new model becomes Canon's definitive portraiture lens, offering extremely fine control over depth of field and consummate low light performance. With vastly improved auto focus speed, the lens replaces the popular EF 85mm f/1.2L USM. As with all L-series lenses, the EF 85mm f/1.2 II USM incorporates the very finest standards of precision optics.
The EF 85mm f/1.2 II USM features:
· Canon's finest standards of image quality
· Latest Ultrasonic Motor (USM) for fast and near silent auto focus
· Full-time electronic manual focus override
· Super Spectra coatings and optimised lens element shaping to suppress flare and ghosting
· Large circular aperture diaphragm for good background bokeh and 'removal' of distracting backgrounds
· Distance information passed back to the new E-TTL II flash algorithm of all current model digital EOS cameras
· Lens hood and pouch included in the box.
In addition, Canon today strengthens its EF-S lens series with the launch of the Image Stabilised wide angle EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM. With image quality and construction approaching that of Canon's renowned professional lenses, the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM becomes the fastest standard focal length zoom for EF–S mount cameras such as the new EOS 30D. Combining constant f/2.8 aperture throughout the zoom range with Canon's latest 3-stop Image Stabiliser, it delivers outstanding wide angle performance and framing flexibility in low light conditions. Specialist optics such as UD glass and aspherical elements help deliver exceptional clarity, sharpness, contrast and colour accuracy.
V6GTO said:Because of the 1Ds?
Why a 5D? Why not a 1DMIIn
_dobbo_ said:But (money aside) what makes the 5D so much better than the 30d? I know the FF price has a lot to do with price. If you had to buy tomorrow (and wernt fussed about saving a few hundred quid getting the 20d instead of the 30d) then what makes the 5D so much better than the 30d?
Forget the
After that the logical upgrade is a 1D of some description, missing the 5D out.
UKBob said:Why do you need the extra pixels? Serious question!
With that 70-200 IS lens Ive been going on and on about
If you see yourself printing big (A2+ I'd say), or if you are submitting images to libraries that have minimum size requirements, then the extra res will be useful. Otherwise if you only print up to A3ish, they'll be wasted and will simply clog up your PC.
UKBob said:
What concerns my 'beginner brain' though, is the lack of shooting modes on the 5D. Or more specifically, how long will trial and error take in manual mode before I get the hang of things - how much is there to it? Might I look back, or is that just the amateur in me thinking this way?
I'm assuming you mean the modes like "landscape", "sports" and "snow"? The 5D has all the modes you'll ever need! Program mode (where the camera does everything for you), Aperture priority, shutter priority and full manual - you won't ever need anything more that that, and you can't get any more basic than "P" mode!
It looks like the 30D is a useful upgrade to the 20D, but if there are good deals to be had on the 20 then go for one of them! You can always upgrade to a 5D in the future (or 5D Mk II, or 1Ds II or whatever...) once you've got to grips with it.
Just buy the darn camera!!!! For anyone interested Canon seem to be doing a 300 Euro (£200) cash back on the 5d from today until the end of June ...
So with a typical mid range price of £1799 for the body (Park Cameras for example) you actually spend £1599.
The RRP list of the 30D is likely to be about £1099 apparently (Body only).
So I guess the Canon marketing strategy is to squeeze the D200 from both sides.
>> Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 21st February 21:50
So with a typical mid range price of £1799 for the body (Park Cameras for example) you actually spend £1599.
The RRP list of the 30D is likely to be about £1099 apparently (Body only).
So I guess the Canon marketing strategy is to squeeze the D200 from both sides.
>> Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 21st February 21:50
Further to Eds post...you'll have B or bulb mode as well. This is where the shutter stays open as long as you have your finger on the release. I really wish, on these top end cameras they'de chuck the program mode in the bin and add a dof mode...much more usefull. (By dof mode I mean...you focus on the nearest thing you want in the shot in focus, then on the furthest thing, you then frame the shot and hit the button a 3rd time and the camera works out the expose)
Martin.
Martin.
V6GTO said:Another reason to stick with the 20D then
I really wish, on these top end cameras they'de chuck the program mode in the bin and add a dof mode...much more usefull. (By dof mode I mean...you focus on the nearest thing you want in the shot in focus, then on the furthest thing, you then frame the shot and hit the button a 3rd time and the camera works out the expose)
Martin.
. The only baby mode that I have occasionally used is the fill in flash when using the built in unit - it does appear to work quite well when the subject is lit from behind. This is probably as I have never read any instructions regarding the built in flash however, and always forget to take my proper unit with me.
Bollocks, I dont know what I want 
At one helluva stretch (which would take time to £recover from) I could buy a 1DsMII later this year, and thought about doing so having read time and again, that once you've used one, there is absolutely positively no going back whatsoever - its the best thing since sliced bread, and the cost is always justified after purchase etc etc. Im positive that photography is for me, and that whatever I buy will get used and hopefully kept for a long while, I dont want to upgrade again for at least 3++ years either BUT... that model looks set to have a replacement within 12 months. And is such a lot of money, I just wasnt sure what to get.
I really like the higher MP count, as well as weather sealing and fantastic AF the 1D models offer. But what puts me off the 1dMII is the 8mp count. I print A2 already, and would like to go bigger if the camera allowed. The more MP's the better, for me.
So do I buy a 5D, stick with it, or go 30d with less mp but better macro/tele.
I've just about given up on trying to figure out whats best for me. I want to have my cake and eat it, damnit.
>> Edited by UKBob on Tuesday 21st February 15:14
At one helluva stretch (which would take time to £recover from) I could buy a 1DsMII later this year, and thought about doing so having read time and again, that once you've used one, there is absolutely positively no going back whatsoever - its the best thing since sliced bread, and the cost is always justified after purchase etc etc. Im positive that photography is for me, and that whatever I buy will get used and hopefully kept for a long while, I dont want to upgrade again for at least 3++ years either BUT... that model looks set to have a replacement within 12 months. And is such a lot of money, I just wasnt sure what to get.
I really like the higher MP count, as well as weather sealing and fantastic AF the 1D models offer. But what puts me off the 1dMII is the 8mp count. I print A2 already, and would like to go bigger if the camera allowed. The more MP's the better, for me.
So do I buy a 5D, stick with it, or go 30d with less mp but better macro/tele.
I've just about given up on trying to figure out whats best for me. I want to have my cake and eat it, damnit.
>> Edited by UKBob on Tuesday 21st February 15:14
UKBob said:
What concerns my 'beginner brain' though, is the lack of shooting modes on the 5D.
I'm sure you don't mean Fluffy Bunny Mode and all the other little pictures do you? People with £1,000 IS lenses don't use those! You're going straight into A, S, M and P territory.
ehasler said:
Yes, it will be easier when you have a real one and not a cut-out model made from packshots on DPreview
simpo two said:
What concerns my 'beginner brain' though, is the lack of shooting modes on the 5D.
I'm sure you don't mean Fluffy Bunny Mode and all the other little pictures do you? People with £1,000 IS lenses don't use those! You're going straight into A, S, M and P territory.
I vow never to speak of "which model again" until Ive bought once
Time to jump in and see what happens. After Ive done more reading UKBob said:I think you're suffering from upgraditis
I dont want to upgrade again for at least 3++ years either and that model looks set to have a replacement this year, most likely. Im not willing to wait and Im not keen on spending that kind of money either.
Just because a camera gets updated at some point doesn't suddenly make it stop working, or take cr@p photos! The 1Ds II is THE BEST DSLR in the world at the moment, and produces results that rival medium format film. The images it produces are good enough to submit to image libraries, and for printing a double-page magazine spread. If you want better image quality, you have to look at medium format digital, or large format film/digital.
I very much doubt that the 1Ds Mk III or whatever it's called will improve on it much - most likely it'll have a bigger LCD and a few other minor tweaks, much like the 20D and 1D II have been upgraded.
Even if the 1Ds III can make your tea and flies you to the moon, the current 1Ds II will still be as good as it is now, which is very, very good!
UKBob said:If you want to print big and need those extra pixels, but can't justify a 1Ds II, then it looks pretty easy - go for the 5D.
So do I buy a 5D, stick with it, a 30d with less mp and print detail but better macro/tele.
I've just about given up on trying to figure out whats best for me vs what I want vs what I think I can afford.
And a 20D won't give you better macro/tele - you get more depth of field control with a bigger sensor, so I'd say the 5D would be better here, and the telephoto issue can be got round in two ways. 1) buy a bigger lens or 2) crop the image in PS afterwards.
Now go and buy a camera!
Go on!
Now!
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