Discussion
quote:
Anyway, I suspect the 'entry level' TVR market is satisfied by the supply of low mileage second hand TVRs.
Hmm... but is it? Surely some people are put off by second hand cars, since they often believe they need a warranty to protect them - or simply don't have the skills to look after one properly. Just an observation...
quote:
I agree though, that a really fast TVR based on a proven high power production engine within TVR's chassis/suspension/body would be a better proposition than the current crop of (imo) expensive (imo) fragile models - fast and pretty though they may be.
...what.. something like a Rover V8 or similar
There are too many people who have said to me that they want a 20k - 25k TVR based on the principles of Bang for Bucks.
Thats how it started and what then happened is they overpowered the chassis in many cases and developed into the modern myth of TVR's being overspowered and under developed in terms of chassis.
I agree tis has been the case and the Tamore is finally breaking ground in terms of handling aswell as grunt.
Until TVR can come up with a car that handles aswell as the Tamora or better and then a reliable smaller lump but giving exciting performance they will never sell a car in the 20k to 25k market. There's too many far more reliable options that behave better on the road and have far too many toys and electronic everything.
Now having the 2 engines they do they are not going to develop a 2.5ltr for example as the development cost would be monstrous and whats the point with so many good ones around.
My dad is a classic example. Previous owner of 2 Vixens and a Grantura he firmly believes TVR lost the plot with and spoilt many of the models by over powering them. He would love anopther TVR and could quite happily afford one but does not want the whats available currently as it has far too much power for him these days. Te only thing that is close to what he would like that they now produce is the 4.5 Chimaera and he doesn't like the look. Therefor he's stumped except for a 4ltr Griff which is getting too long in the tooth for him, especiallyu when he can afford new. No other choice.
Lotus chassis knowledge and AJP V8 uuuurrrmmmmmm
Thats how it started and what then happened is they overpowered the chassis in many cases and developed into the modern myth of TVR's being overspowered and under developed in terms of chassis.
I agree tis has been the case and the Tamore is finally breaking ground in terms of handling aswell as grunt.
Until TVR can come up with a car that handles aswell as the Tamora or better and then a reliable smaller lump but giving exciting performance they will never sell a car in the 20k to 25k market. There's too many far more reliable options that behave better on the road and have far too many toys and electronic everything.
Now having the 2 engines they do they are not going to develop a 2.5ltr for example as the development cost would be monstrous and whats the point with so many good ones around.
My dad is a classic example. Previous owner of 2 Vixens and a Grantura he firmly believes TVR lost the plot with and spoilt many of the models by over powering them. He would love anopther TVR and could quite happily afford one but does not want the whats available currently as it has far too much power for him these days. Te only thing that is close to what he would like that they now produce is the 4.5 Chimaera and he doesn't like the look. Therefor he's stumped except for a 4ltr Griff which is getting too long in the tooth for him, especiallyu when he can afford new. No other choice.
Lotus chassis knowledge and AJP V8 uuuurrrmmmmmm
quote:
TVR ....
Why make 2000 cars for 25K when you can make 2000 at 50k?
Plus PW likes making things and not buying in stuff and simply bolting it together.
Steve
Yes true a few years ago, but at the moment they do not make 2000, only 1000, similar situation (but factory was smaller) to that at end of 80's when they went off on those funny wedge things. Hence the new "'S' for Starter TVR". (okay I might find room for a SEAC with whale tail if it was given to me, but new it was v. expensive).
However as you say the killer probably is PW want's to make his own engines, and he's the boss.
Similar thread in Sprint a few years ago, people wanting a new Vixen!
I understand that this was what the dealers originally wanted when they were consulted about a new entry level TVR which turned out to be the Tamora. I think talk of the Mondeo 24V V6 was brought up then as well.
Peter Wheeler then decided to go his own way apparently and now TVR have (arguably) 3 cars all competing for the same market (£40K convertible sports cars) if you included the Tuscan.
Jas.
Peter Wheeler then decided to go his own way apparently and now TVR have (arguably) 3 cars all competing for the same market (£40K convertible sports cars) if you included the Tuscan.
Jas.
quote:
TVR are limited to a production run of 2000 cars max per year which is very roughly what they produce. This is to take advantage of SVA regs.
Why make 2000 cars for 25K when you can make 2000 at 50k?
Plus PW likes making things and not buying in stuff and simply bolting it together.
Steve
It is not SVA that limits TVR's production as only one model is subject to SVA, this being the Tamora and only until the type approval has been finished.
All the other models are covered by UK Low Volume & Full European type approval, the limitation is due to the labour intensive nature of the hand built product that a TVR is.
As I understand it, the original 'S' moulds were broken up by the factory a while back, (except maybe the bonnet mould). That's why you can only get pattern moulds now which don't fit as well as the originals apparently.
If Lotus made the Elsie with the Mondeo V6, I think I would probably defect i'm afraid! There must be a market for the 'S5' I would have thought, especially at £25K.
Jas.
P.S. Actually, here's a controversial thought........
If TVR built cars with mass developed / manufactured and therefore theoretically reliable engines and transmissions, they probably wouldn't have the reputation for poor reliability. As they are, TVR seem to be stretching themselves too far in the quest for fast, unique cars at the expense of reliability. Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near a new TVR for a good few years yet until I was confident that it wouldn't break down!
My old S2 has only broken down twice in 7 years, both times I got the car going again without the help of the AA, and both components that failed were nothing to do with TVR or Ford! (1. Fan relay failed, and 2. Distributor cap electrode became detached inside the cap).
>> Edited by Paceracing on Thursday 11th July 22:19
If Lotus made the Elsie with the Mondeo V6, I think I would probably defect i'm afraid! There must be a market for the 'S5' I would have thought, especially at £25K.
Jas.
P.S. Actually, here's a controversial thought........
If TVR built cars with mass developed / manufactured and therefore theoretically reliable engines and transmissions, they probably wouldn't have the reputation for poor reliability. As they are, TVR seem to be stretching themselves too far in the quest for fast, unique cars at the expense of reliability. Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near a new TVR for a good few years yet until I was confident that it wouldn't break down!
My old S2 has only broken down twice in 7 years, both times I got the car going again without the help of the AA, and both components that failed were nothing to do with TVR or Ford! (1. Fan relay failed, and 2. Distributor cap electrode became detached inside the cap).
>> Edited by Paceracing on Thursday 11th July 22:19
quote:£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
So why not take an S, get the body made from carbon fibre, the chassis modified and made from titanium and drop in a nice lightweight engine with around 650 horses and of course a nice big set of brakes
quote:
so all the original mould have gone? so if we have a shunt where do we get the panels from?
Various TVR specialists have their own moulds - I know Tower View have lots stashed away upstairs and had no trouble making a new V8S back end when somebody introduced an Escort to my V8S a couple of years ago.
Sadley they are not very nostalgic, so they don't keep a lot of the old bits. I think if they cant see a profit in it, they bin it.
Most of the one off and prototype cars are dismantled or left to rot, this stuff should be in a museum.
Big shame.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Monday 15th July 09:37
Most of the one off and prototype cars are dismantled or left to rot, this stuff should be in a museum.
Big shame.
>> Edited by Dave_H on Monday 15th July 09:37
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