S1 Starts but won't run
Discussion
Afternoon all,
I moved the car last week to a different position on the drive and jacked it at the front to carry out some routine stuff and maybe more importantly tucked the carpet under the glove box up slightly. When I had finished for the day I went to start up and it starts for a second with a blast from the exhaust and then just cuts out. It does this no matter how many times you try.
Battery and fuel level fine, So I decided to check the fuse box- all fuses ok but changed a couple for the engine run etc and then saw that the pink engine run relay was loose and someone had put a cable tie over it to hold in place and it had come off, thought I'd sussed it and relocated...however just the same. Then I took the relay out and it looked a little melted so ordered another and checked to make sure no obvious loose wiring. It came today so changed it but still no good.
I can't hear the fuel pump cutting in at all so Its looking like I'm going to have to get the meter out and start testing wiring before I look to change the pump or go too far.
Has anyone had a similar one to this? I was wondering whether it could be an alarm immobiliser problem (not been in use) or an inertia sensor cutting the fuel supply but don't know if the S1 even had one.
I moved the car last week to a different position on the drive and jacked it at the front to carry out some routine stuff and maybe more importantly tucked the carpet under the glove box up slightly. When I had finished for the day I went to start up and it starts for a second with a blast from the exhaust and then just cuts out. It does this no matter how many times you try.
Battery and fuel level fine, So I decided to check the fuse box- all fuses ok but changed a couple for the engine run etc and then saw that the pink engine run relay was loose and someone had put a cable tie over it to hold in place and it had come off, thought I'd sussed it and relocated...however just the same. Then I took the relay out and it looked a little melted so ordered another and checked to make sure no obvious loose wiring. It came today so changed it but still no good.
I can't hear the fuel pump cutting in at all so Its looking like I'm going to have to get the meter out and start testing wiring before I look to change the pump or go too far.
Has anyone had a similar one to this? I was wondering whether it could be an alarm immobiliser problem (not been in use) or an inertia sensor cutting the fuel supply but don't know if the S1 even had one.
I had a similar sounding problem where the wires to the tachometer became unplugged while i was fiddling under the dashboard. The engine would fire up for a second then cut out as i am assuming the ECU could not detect the engine rev's so cut out. If you see revs when you start the engine this would not be the same problem as mine. Good luck!
Hi Phil,
I had the same symptoms occuring, but intermittantly, for quite a while, which made it very difficult to diagnose.
First and foremost, what is the condition of your engine run / fuel pump relay base ( the bit that the pink relay plugs in to? ). If that or the wires that go to it are melted or scorched, that will need addressing, probably the reason your fuel pump isn't priming. You can easily check the pump is ok by running a feed straight from the battery positive terminal and touching onto the pump positive.
And do not assume that the replacement pink relay you have fitted is guaranteed 100% serviceable.
Secondly, are you sure that the 10 amp fuse ( j ) that feeds the warning lights, instruments and indicators hasn't blown?
Is the red alternator dash warning light illuminating when you turn on the ignition?
Fuse ( j ) supplies quite a few things via the green colour coded wires, in addition to the above, ie handbrake w/light, low brake fluid, and Cigar Lighter.
After nearly two full days of messing about behind the dash, in the footwells & under the bonnet, I managed to find the cause:
it was a 5-way adaptor socket plugged into my cig lighter socket that I use to power my satnav & phone charger. It had got wet periodically ( roofless in the rain! ) and the circuitry in it had gradually died.
Every time I plugged it in & turned the ignition on, the 10 amp fuse would blow.
The engine would fire then die every time.
My advice would be to check each circuit supplied by the green wires until you find the problem. A short on any of those could be causing the fault.
Have you got a copy of "The TVR S Series" by Steve Heath ( the Bible ) or a circuit diagram?
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.
Glen
I had the same symptoms occuring, but intermittantly, for quite a while, which made it very difficult to diagnose.
First and foremost, what is the condition of your engine run / fuel pump relay base ( the bit that the pink relay plugs in to? ). If that or the wires that go to it are melted or scorched, that will need addressing, probably the reason your fuel pump isn't priming. You can easily check the pump is ok by running a feed straight from the battery positive terminal and touching onto the pump positive.
And do not assume that the replacement pink relay you have fitted is guaranteed 100% serviceable.
Secondly, are you sure that the 10 amp fuse ( j ) that feeds the warning lights, instruments and indicators hasn't blown?
Is the red alternator dash warning light illuminating when you turn on the ignition?
Fuse ( j ) supplies quite a few things via the green colour coded wires, in addition to the above, ie handbrake w/light, low brake fluid, and Cigar Lighter.
After nearly two full days of messing about behind the dash, in the footwells & under the bonnet, I managed to find the cause:
it was a 5-way adaptor socket plugged into my cig lighter socket that I use to power my satnav & phone charger. It had got wet periodically ( roofless in the rain! ) and the circuitry in it had gradually died.
Every time I plugged it in & turned the ignition on, the 10 amp fuse would blow.
The engine would fire then die every time.
My advice would be to check each circuit supplied by the green wires until you find the problem. A short on any of those could be causing the fault.
Have you got a copy of "The TVR S Series" by Steve Heath ( the Bible ) or a circuit diagram?
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.
Glen
glenrobbo said:
Hi Phil,
I had the same symptoms occuring, but intermittantly, for quite a while, which made it very difficult to diagnose.
First and foremost, what is the condition of your engine run / fuel pump relay base ( the bit that the pink relay plugs in to? ). If that or the wires that go to it are melted or scorched, that will need addressing, probably the reason your fuel pump isn't priming. You can easily check the pump is ok by running a feed straight from the battery positive terminal and touching onto the pump positive.
And do not assume that the replacement pink relay you have fitted is guaranteed 100% serviceable.
Secondly, are you sure that the 10 amp fuse ( j ) that feeds the warning lights, instruments and indicators hasn't blown?
Is the red alternator dash warning light illuminating when you turn on the ignition?
Fuse ( j ) supplies quite a few things via the green colour coded wires, in addition to the above, ie handbrake w/light, low brake fluid, and Cigar Lighter.
After nearly two full days of messing about behind the dash, in the footwells & under the bonnet, I managed to find the cause:
it was a 5-way adaptor socket plugged into my cig lighter socket that I use to power my satnav & phone charger. It had got wet periodically ( roofless in the rain! ) and the circuitry in it had gradually died.
Every time I plugged it in & turned the ignition on, the 10 amp fuse would blow.
The engine would fire then die every time.
My advice would be to check each circuit supplied by the green wires until you find the problem. A short on any of those could be causing the fault.
Have you got a copy of "The TVR S Series" by Steve Heath ( the Bible ) or a circuit diagram?
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.
Glen
Hi Glen,I had the same symptoms occuring, but intermittantly, for quite a while, which made it very difficult to diagnose.
First and foremost, what is the condition of your engine run / fuel pump relay base ( the bit that the pink relay plugs in to? ). If that or the wires that go to it are melted or scorched, that will need addressing, probably the reason your fuel pump isn't priming. You can easily check the pump is ok by running a feed straight from the battery positive terminal and touching onto the pump positive.
And do not assume that the replacement pink relay you have fitted is guaranteed 100% serviceable.
Secondly, are you sure that the 10 amp fuse ( j ) that feeds the warning lights, instruments and indicators hasn't blown?
Is the red alternator dash warning light illuminating when you turn on the ignition?
Fuse ( j ) supplies quite a few things via the green colour coded wires, in addition to the above, ie handbrake w/light, low brake fluid, and Cigar Lighter.
After nearly two full days of messing about behind the dash, in the footwells & under the bonnet, I managed to find the cause:
it was a 5-way adaptor socket plugged into my cig lighter socket that I use to power my satnav & phone charger. It had got wet periodically ( roofless in the rain! ) and the circuitry in it had gradually died.
Every time I plugged it in & turned the ignition on, the 10 amp fuse would blow.
The engine would fire then die every time.
My advice would be to check each circuit supplied by the green wires until you find the problem. A short on any of those could be causing the fault.
Have you got a copy of "The TVR S Series" by Steve Heath ( the Bible ) or a circuit diagram?
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.
Glen
How's Austin bearing up?
Well first things first I'm feeling quite sorry for myself over this
The condition of the base and wiring looks pretty good as it happens but yes it did cross my mind that the new relay may not be good...its a new old part after all.
The fuses all looked good, I changed a couple for good measure but I'll change the 10amp as well to be sure then.
Yes I've got the bible and I've spent all afternoon tracing wires from the electrical schematic, checking connections and removing insulation tape, good old TVR electrics.
I've got a couple of hours spare tomorrow afternoon so I'm going to wedge myself in the footwell again.
Cheers,
Phil.
Ok, but what is the red alternator warning light doing? That is also fed off that fuse.
Another thing I just thought of, is to check the fuel pump has a good earth.
Oh, and make sure the alternator cables are well away from the offside exhaust manifold.
ETA. Maybe unrelated, but there is a green cold start relay in the tangle of wires that lie under the bonnet, in the rainwater path between the nearside inner wing and the passenger footwell. I pulled it all up and removed the relay, carefully unwrapped the insulation tape, prised the cover off and it was not a pretty sight in there. I cleaned it up with contact cleaner spray, gave it a good dose of WD40, re-wrapped it & put it back pending finding a replacement. Quite rare apparently.
But Austin is running very well for now thanks.
Another thing I just thought of, is to check the fuel pump has a good earth.
Oh, and make sure the alternator cables are well away from the offside exhaust manifold.
ETA. Maybe unrelated, but there is a green cold start relay in the tangle of wires that lie under the bonnet, in the rainwater path between the nearside inner wing and the passenger footwell. I pulled it all up and removed the relay, carefully unwrapped the insulation tape, prised the cover off and it was not a pretty sight in there. I cleaned it up with contact cleaner spray, gave it a good dose of WD40, re-wrapped it & put it back pending finding a replacement. Quite rare apparently.
But Austin is running very well for now thanks.
Edited by glenrobbo on Saturday 8th November 19:33
PhilH73 said:
Cheers xstoka,
I can't see anything thats come loose but then its pitch black and a bit tricky with a torch. Where exactly did yours come loose?
Phil
I think a previous owner had removed the tacho at some point before and put a couple of inline bullet connectors. It was this that came undone ans the source of my problem. If your problem is the same as this then i assume you will have to trace the wires back.I can't see anything thats come loose but then its pitch black and a bit tricky with a torch. Where exactly did yours come loose?
Phil
Only other advice i can give you (im not a mechanical person), is that my purple fuel relay fuse came loose one time too so stopped working, If the source of the problem is the fuel pump, or fuel pump related, then after about 10 -15 goes of trying to start your car, it will no longer fire up as the fuel already in the engine is used up. You will just hear the turning over of the battery. If your car is still firing up and then dying for a second after trying over and over again, It may not be the fuel pump as it is still delivering enough to the engine to fire up.
If it fires up briefly every time the tacho connections are probably ok. The ignition feed is always via the tacho.
The fuel pump relay (pink)is only switched on when it see ignition pulses so you may not hear it. If it fires up each time then its getting fuel pressure.
Does it fire and stop as soon as you release the key? If yes then check the ballast resistor connections.
The other possibility is that there is an air leak in the hose from the metering unit to the throttle and the engine only fires while the cold start injector is activated.
The fuel pump relay (pink)is only switched on when it see ignition pulses so you may not hear it. If it fires up each time then its getting fuel pressure.
Does it fire and stop as soon as you release the key? If yes then check the ballast resistor connections.
The other possibility is that there is an air leak in the hose from the metering unit to the throttle and the engine only fires while the cold start injector is activated.
phillpot said:
Having no experience of the 2.8 engine perhaps I should keep my nose out of this one but I do think you'll struggle to find the ballast resistor!
There is a resistor fitted to the engine bay bulkhead near the steering column bearing housing, but I think it is for the instrument panel lights dim/ even dimmer option. Red/ black & red/ blue wires? I may be totally wrong though.The circuit diagram in the "Bible" shows a cold start resistor with 2 black/ yellow wires ( ignition coil & starter motor ) and two black wires ( ign module & tacho. The latter becomes white/yellow at the loom connector plug & connects to white at the tacho .)
I'm not sure if this feature is applicable to the 2.8 or just the 2.9.
Edited by glenrobbo on Sunday 9th November 13:25
Le TVR said:
Ballast resistor is a length of thick wire, usually coiled and tied to the LHS top chassis rail. And no, it doesn't look like a resistor!
My apologies, there is indeed one on those "old fashioned engines" 
Must admit I thought ballast resistors became unnecessary when electronic ignition came in, or do those 2.8's have points and condensers?????
phillpot said:
My apologies, there is indeed one on those "old fashioned engines"
Must admit I thought ballast resistors became unnecessary when electronic ignition came in, or do those 2.8's have points and condensers?????
Oi Phillpot! Must admit I thought ballast resistors became unnecessary when electronic ignition came in, or do those 2.8's have points and condensers?????
What kind of apology is that? Old fashioned? Points & condensers??
Harrumph!
By the way, congratulations on landing that job driving for JLR.
However did you wangle that? All the teenies love them you know.
Just be careful you don't get mobbed when you take them to gigs or drop them off at their hotel.
I had a similar problem when I refitted my dash and reorganised the loom behind the glove-box. The problem turned out to be breaks in the wiring caused by disturbing dry soldered (bodged!) joints. The main culprit was the live feed to the ECU (with a supporting role played by the tune resistor - I don't think you have one of those). So might be worth unwrapping some of that horrible black tape and check the state of the joints.
Have you got it sorted?
If you cannot hear the fuel pump on an S1 it is either not working or working so weakly you cannot hear it.
Run a live wire to it and a temporary earth and see if it starts, if not you know it is the pump not the wiring. If it does start you at least know it is a wiring problem.
If you can just hear it when you are by the pump then it isnt working well which could be a failing pump or a blocked pump. It is sometimes possible to get enough crud out (dry it first and see what comes out of the input pipe) to get it working OK but the source of the crud needs investigating.
If it is working very weakly then it will put enough petrol through for the 7th injector to work and enough therefore into the plenum chamber for it to start but then cut out. It wont help you find the problem but if you remove the cold start relay connection then you should lose the initial start, which will confirm low fuel pressure.
Next time Phillpot talks about these 'old fashioned engines' we 2.8 purists will just have to go round there and give him a new piece of stainless to play with!
If you cannot hear the fuel pump on an S1 it is either not working or working so weakly you cannot hear it.
Run a live wire to it and a temporary earth and see if it starts, if not you know it is the pump not the wiring. If it does start you at least know it is a wiring problem.
If you can just hear it when you are by the pump then it isnt working well which could be a failing pump or a blocked pump. It is sometimes possible to get enough crud out (dry it first and see what comes out of the input pipe) to get it working OK but the source of the crud needs investigating.
If it is working very weakly then it will put enough petrol through for the 7th injector to work and enough therefore into the plenum chamber for it to start but then cut out. It wont help you find the problem but if you remove the cold start relay connection then you should lose the initial start, which will confirm low fuel pressure.
Next time Phillpot talks about these 'old fashioned engines' we 2.8 purists will just have to go round there and give him a new piece of stainless to play with!
greymrj said:
Next time Phillpot talks about these 'old fashioned engines' we 2.8 purists will just have to go round there and give him a new piece of stainless to play with!
If your cars will start!!! Joking aside, are you getting anywhere Phil?
Edited by phillpot on Monday 10th November 15:22
Sorry chaps not ignoring you...its been a bit full on at work and today has been the first chance I've had to look at it and get back on here, thanks for all the advice though.
I've sorted it....I changed the pink relay again and had my daughter start it up and could hear it clicking but still same symptoms. Removed,cleaned and re-taped a load of wiring/ connections under the bonnet, removed the battery and tray while I was at it and cleaned it up and re-painted. But in the end it was a bad connection to the tacho, nothing disconnected just played about a bit. Nearly killed me mind laying upside down under the wheel especially when my leg cramped
See nothing wrong with the good old 2.8!!
I've sorted it....I changed the pink relay again and had my daughter start it up and could hear it clicking but still same symptoms. Removed,cleaned and re-taped a load of wiring/ connections under the bonnet, removed the battery and tray while I was at it and cleaned it up and re-painted. But in the end it was a bad connection to the tacho, nothing disconnected just played about a bit. Nearly killed me mind laying upside down under the wheel especially when my leg cramped
See nothing wrong with the good old 2.8!!
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