Hethel lotus test track retro event
Discussion
I enjoyed myself so much on Sunday that I too have booked again for the 25th September. Unlike some track days, I felt totally unstressed all day, an excellent attitude and behaviour by everyone on and off track. Next time I'll try getting out on circuit without my baffles, they quietened the exhaust down too much!
Mathew's Griff sounded fantastic - so if he wasn't over the noise limit I should be okay too.
Mathew's Griff sounded fantastic - so if he wasn't over the noise limit I should be okay too.
Yex 450 said:
List for 25th updated...
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax -S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes
)
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax -
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes
)Yes Peter, if I'm heating up one side of the disc more then that's not going to help.
Safety I take seriously so I'm not driving the car much until I can get a good look at them,
Local driving at 30mph you'd think the brakes are great, longish but solid pedal etc,
In fact on the way home from the track I was at 90 mph and brake testing, no judder but I'm not doing emergency stops,,
If I had an upper ball joint wearing loose would that contribute to the shaking, it's not the cause but would surely transmit any shaking being caused by imbalanced brakes.
The simple fact is the left caliper outside pad is not wearing the disc as much or as evenly as the opposing side so until that's resolved I've got issues.
What's good is when these brakes work properly I'm going to have some top class stopping power, they feel very progressive and smooth, lovely to use on a daily basis,, I enjoy pressing the pedal they feels that good.
I've sort of contradicted myself, got a car with soft springs but big brakes,,
I think I need my spring rate corrected for the track, that will give me better balance on the brakes and then I can consider both front and rear pad specs,,
On the road things are about right but on track and braking very hard the nose is on the floor and the tail wagging in the air so no rear braking, or very little. Stiffer springs will resist the pitch change a little as will lower rear ride height which in turn should introduce more rear brake bias.
At the moment it feels like a motorbike, all front brakes.
This is my development path, I'm learning as I go, I love it but I'm no expert but I can feel I'm close to getting it right.
I've got some GGP's that I'll use for track work, get the spring rates right and then decide what rear pads I should use,,,,
After I've got the fronts right that is.
I can and do know how to use scales so I'm not totally numb
soon as this is sorted I'll get it corner weighted properly so we know the weight distribution and hopefully get even braking. 
Safety I take seriously so I'm not driving the car much until I can get a good look at them,
Local driving at 30mph you'd think the brakes are great, longish but solid pedal etc,
In fact on the way home from the track I was at 90 mph and brake testing, no judder but I'm not doing emergency stops,,
If I had an upper ball joint wearing loose would that contribute to the shaking, it's not the cause but would surely transmit any shaking being caused by imbalanced brakes.
The simple fact is the left caliper outside pad is not wearing the disc as much or as evenly as the opposing side so until that's resolved I've got issues.
What's good is when these brakes work properly I'm going to have some top class stopping power, they feel very progressive and smooth, lovely to use on a daily basis,, I enjoy pressing the pedal they feels that good.
I've sort of contradicted myself, got a car with soft springs but big brakes,,
I think I need my spring rate corrected for the track, that will give me better balance on the brakes and then I can consider both front and rear pad specs,,
On the road things are about right but on track and braking very hard the nose is on the floor and the tail wagging in the air so no rear braking, or very little. Stiffer springs will resist the pitch change a little as will lower rear ride height which in turn should introduce more rear brake bias.
At the moment it feels like a motorbike, all front brakes.
This is my development path, I'm learning as I go, I love it but I'm no expert but I can feel I'm close to getting it right.
I've got some GGP's that I'll use for track work, get the spring rates right and then decide what rear pads I should use,,,,
After I've got the fronts right that is.
I can and do know how to use scales so I'm not totally numb
soon as this is sorted I'll get it corner weighted properly so we know the weight distribution and hopefully get even braking. Changing the suspension alters how far and how fast the car dives under braking but doesn't affect the weight distribution once the car has settled, and so doesn't affect the brake balance.
A worn ball joint could well contribute to vibration under braking. The normal test is to put your toes on the bottom rim, hold onto the top of the tyre and hang sideways off the wheel. If the joint is worn you will feel it clonking as you shift your weight up and down.
The fact that the brakes apparently feel very good a lot of the time leaves me very confused about exactly what the symptoms are, but hopefully you will track the problem down and be able to enjoy those brakes again soon.
A worn ball joint could well contribute to vibration under braking. The normal test is to put your toes on the bottom rim, hold onto the top of the tyre and hang sideways off the wheel. If the joint is worn you will feel it clonking as you shift your weight up and down.
The fact that the brakes apparently feel very good a lot of the time leaves me very confused about exactly what the symptoms are, but hopefully you will track the problem down and be able to enjoy those brakes again soon.
Edited by GreenV8S on Wednesday 11th May 00:14
Heres another oddity for you, so big vibration on full braking yet let them cool down and for a couple of laps after no shudder?
Unless you get on the brakes hard and for sometime I can't induce the shudder and the car brakes pretty much in a straight line.
I do know how to check ball joint movement etc. This is pointless without pics etc,
This might rumble on until I've solved it so I should start a topic discussing this issue on the Chim forum
That's for any advice that anyone has offered.
My brakes work, the left works but not as efficiently as the right but it's not so bad I get only one wheel braking or anything,
I left foot brake so I'm normally introducing them to the disc a little before I actually brake so I'm doing things as correct as I can when driving
The more I consider this the more I realise I'd never have found this out unless I'm braking from very hi speed.
The slight imbalance is obviously there but it's not easy to detect until you ask of the brakes to deliberately lock them up,,
I automatically suspect the new caliper but this used to happen on the original discs and Calipers so it's inherent and carried over,, that's what I need to focus on and I'm hoping it's a brake line issue rather than anything wrong with the Caliper.
Thanks again chaps
Unless you get on the brakes hard and for sometime I can't induce the shudder and the car brakes pretty much in a straight line.
I do know how to check ball joint movement etc. This is pointless without pics etc,
This might rumble on until I've solved it so I should start a topic discussing this issue on the Chim forum
That's for any advice that anyone has offered.
My brakes work, the left works but not as efficiently as the right but it's not so bad I get only one wheel braking or anything,
I left foot brake so I'm normally introducing them to the disc a little before I actually brake so I'm doing things as correct as I can when driving
The more I consider this the more I realise I'd never have found this out unless I'm braking from very hi speed.
The slight imbalance is obviously there but it's not easy to detect until you ask of the brakes to deliberately lock them up,,
I automatically suspect the new caliper but this used to happen on the original discs and Calipers so it's inherent and carried over,, that's what I need to focus on and I'm hoping it's a brake line issue rather than anything wrong with the Caliper.
Thanks again chaps
It's lower effect of the nearside braking is clearly not a problem throughout the brakes, and not a problem introduced by your new brakes.
So it has to be something like an airlock in the left hand brake lines, a faulty left hand brake line, or something similar.
Your long pedal travel worries me, but also suggests that there is air in the system.
The only times I have ever encountered a long pedal in 31,000 miles a Chim were:
1. at Hullavington this Spring.
Then I had introduced new racing pads into a system with old fluid, and proceeded to boil the brake fluid.
Over the course of a single lap the pedal went from fine to spongy to non-existant, resulting in a 120 mph spin turning onto the main straight back to the start/finish.
2. after changing my rear pads last weekend - completely forgot that I would have a long pedal the first time I tested the brakes.
The brake judder to my mind is a second issue, and as discussed above could be a slightly uneven disk or whatever.
I am not convinced the two issues are linked.
Hope this helps.
Tell me by Saturday if you would like me to drop my three pairs of shelf-borne springs in to you.
So it has to be something like an airlock in the left hand brake lines, a faulty left hand brake line, or something similar.
Your long pedal travel worries me, but also suggests that there is air in the system.
The only times I have ever encountered a long pedal in 31,000 miles a Chim were:
1. at Hullavington this Spring.
Then I had introduced new racing pads into a system with old fluid, and proceeded to boil the brake fluid.
Over the course of a single lap the pedal went from fine to spongy to non-existant, resulting in a 120 mph spin turning onto the main straight back to the start/finish.
2. after changing my rear pads last weekend - completely forgot that I would have a long pedal the first time I tested the brakes.
The brake judder to my mind is a second issue, and as discussed above could be a slightly uneven disk or whatever.
I am not convinced the two issues are linked.
Hope this helps.
Tell me by Saturday if you would like me to drop my three pairs of shelf-borne springs in to you.
[quote=Scoobimax][quote=Yex 450]List for 25th updated...
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax -S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes)
11. Trev4 -Chimaera 400
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax -
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes
)11. Trev4 -Chimaera 400
List for 25th updated...
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax -S3 V8S (probable, just need to check work commitments now confirmed & booked biggrin)
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes)
11. Trev4 -Chimaera 400
12. PompeyTim - Griff 430
Booked for 25th Sept
1. Longers : S3
2. Top Gear TVR in it or V8S
3. AutoAndy: S3C
4. Scoobimax -
5. tel595 - S3c for a gentle drive...
6. Mr Plow - Chimaera
7. Big Ian - S3
8. Matthew Poxon - Griff
9. ClassiChimi - Chimp (with MBE don't you know)
10. Yex450 - Chimaera (with new shoes
)11. Trev4 -Chimaera 400
12. PompeyTim - Griff 430
There are some nice photos from the day Magnitude Events have posted on their Faceache...
Full album here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.46343485...
Full album here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.46343485...
Those twisties told there own story, my soft settings and T1R's were testing through there, understeer then a good chance of oversteer, proper fun trying to make the fronts grip through the apexes then that big braking zone at the end of it,, I really enjoyed accelerating off the hairpin and into the next twisties,,, then big brakes and through the tight chicane,, all flowing, then your rewarded for getting off that hairpin so well by carrying all that speed onto the long straight,, it's both a car and driver track,,
I personally like smooth tracks, bumpy tracks need close scrutiny and walked, then lots of experience to remember them so I tend to be more cautious, consistent Tarmac and grip makes it easier to be quick and safe,, Hethals Tarmac is pretty consistent which is a joy if your only on it for short periods of time.
I also enjoyed the lines you take, the hairpins are classic, brake late and then turn in very late,, sort of testing your bravery, late apex so your balanced on the brink waiting for that apex,,, slow in/ fast out technique and getting lined up for a good exit being critical for a good time,, not that we were doing that,, but it's just good driving skills as well as asking of your car,,
You can imagine how fast you'd be going if you set the car up for the track and got it all flowing without mistakes,, in our cars with the noise, it's a gem of a car on a gem of a track.
I personally like smooth tracks, bumpy tracks need close scrutiny and walked, then lots of experience to remember them so I tend to be more cautious, consistent Tarmac and grip makes it easier to be quick and safe,, Hethals Tarmac is pretty consistent which is a joy if your only on it for short periods of time.
I also enjoyed the lines you take, the hairpins are classic, brake late and then turn in very late,, sort of testing your bravery, late apex so your balanced on the brink waiting for that apex,,, slow in/ fast out technique and getting lined up for a good exit being critical for a good time,, not that we were doing that,, but it's just good driving skills as well as asking of your car,,
You can imagine how fast you'd be going if you set the car up for the track and got it all flowing without mistakes,, in our cars with the noise, it's a gem of a car on a gem of a track.
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