Terry's tale. (S3 resto ++)
Discussion
Just quickly in reply to the electric motor Pas. My own experience driving ANother type of sports car is that I didn't like it. It was just too light with no feel no matter where you set the adjustable controller. And on that particular car, the motor sat directly behind the dashboard. In other words right over you gentleman parts & groin !!! Which I don't think you would walk away from in full physical health if the car had a serious incident. Plus maybe one's insurance wouldn't be happy with that conversion either.
And lastly, they're bloomin expensive if you have it fitted for you.
TerryB.
And lastly, they're bloomin expensive if you have it fitted for you.
TerryB.
This is where things start to slow down.
Plus if I drag it out too much it will appear boring. But if its too short it might appear too matter of fact.
I'll just do my best....
Obviously it would be so good if one could install the new engine/box with the body off. But as you need reference points, like using the body & bonnet to give those limits, it becomes more of a challenge, as those who have removed/fitted their own standard engines, will know !
The AJ30, AJV6, Duratec V6 (what ever you want to call it) engines have their original layout prioritised for FWD. So the RWD versions are adapted to suit such. The cam chain timing cover comes in at least x3 designs to suit where & what bolts onto it. So depending what ones doner unit comes from, will dictate somewhat how one goes about the installation. My unit was from a X350 rwd Jaguar, so in theory it has engine mounts to suit rwd... And it does !
However those Jaguar mounts do not suit the Tvr S chassis.
They are way to big & wide.
Blocking the engine up into a position I think is okay in both fore/aft & height terms I can just about fit the original 2.9 offside engine mount to the AJ block (but by only x2 bolts). Its so difficult to see anything down there let alone to see if it lines up.... It doesn't, but not by much.
I can now fabricate a new offside mount based on the original one.
TerryB
Here's the only decent image showing the misalignment between the original engine mount, and the chassis side mount.
Plus if I drag it out too much it will appear boring. But if its too short it might appear too matter of fact.
I'll just do my best....
Obviously it would be so good if one could install the new engine/box with the body off. But as you need reference points, like using the body & bonnet to give those limits, it becomes more of a challenge, as those who have removed/fitted their own standard engines, will know !
The AJ30, AJV6, Duratec V6 (what ever you want to call it) engines have their original layout prioritised for FWD. So the RWD versions are adapted to suit such. The cam chain timing cover comes in at least x3 designs to suit where & what bolts onto it. So depending what ones doner unit comes from, will dictate somewhat how one goes about the installation. My unit was from a X350 rwd Jaguar, so in theory it has engine mounts to suit rwd... And it does !
However those Jaguar mounts do not suit the Tvr S chassis.
They are way to big & wide.
Blocking the engine up into a position I think is okay in both fore/aft & height terms I can just about fit the original 2.9 offside engine mount to the AJ block (but by only x2 bolts). Its so difficult to see anything down there let alone to see if it lines up.... It doesn't, but not by much.
I can now fabricate a new offside mount based on the original one.
TerryB
Here's the only decent image showing the misalignment between the original engine mount, and the chassis side mount.
Oh, I am going use bobbin (original style) engine mounts.
And I did also centre the engine using the crank through the centre line of the car.
Now then, the nearside is a whole different story.
The first thing to note is that on the rwd AJ engines, the oil filter doesn't attach directly the the cylinder block. As there is a big alloy casting that attaches to the block oil filter aperture. This casting does 3 things.
1. Allows a remote oil filter position
2. Has a oil cooler attached
3. This casting is the offside engine mount.
So, being as this casting has to go, that means there isn't a nearside mount !!
And there are no threaded holes in the block anywhere close to the existing chassis side mount. There are threaded holes in the block at the front of the nearside, and those can be used if you want to create a new chassis mounting. I didn't, because that's where my alternator is going.
After much cardboard cutting and origami skills, & then converting that into steel, I created a workable mount. This wasn't a quick or easy process.
Hence why the engine eventually knew its own way into the car.
Not forgetting that because of the engine belt driven ancillaries I cannot have forward facing exhaust manifolds (I never liked those anyway). So the exhaust manifold design & route away from the engine will have to be mm perfect, as the space between head exhaust ports, the new engine mounts, and the chassis is pretty tight...
And its a this point, that I had a summer break from it...
TerryB.
And I did also centre the engine using the crank through the centre line of the car.
Now then, the nearside is a whole different story.
The first thing to note is that on the rwd AJ engines, the oil filter doesn't attach directly the the cylinder block. As there is a big alloy casting that attaches to the block oil filter aperture. This casting does 3 things.
1. Allows a remote oil filter position
2. Has a oil cooler attached
3. This casting is the offside engine mount.
So, being as this casting has to go, that means there isn't a nearside mount !!
And there are no threaded holes in the block anywhere close to the existing chassis side mount. There are threaded holes in the block at the front of the nearside, and those can be used if you want to create a new chassis mounting. I didn't, because that's where my alternator is going.
After much cardboard cutting and origami skills, & then converting that into steel, I created a workable mount. This wasn't a quick or easy process.
Hence why the engine eventually knew its own way into the car.
Not forgetting that because of the engine belt driven ancillaries I cannot have forward facing exhaust manifolds (I never liked those anyway). So the exhaust manifold design & route away from the engine will have to be mm perfect, as the space between head exhaust ports, the new engine mounts, and the chassis is pretty tight...
And its a this point, that I had a summer break from it...
TerryB.
CAD, I like it 
Sorry, but the cardboard mounts were cut up, then taped to the steel to create the 'real' mount. Plus the metal Mount was only tack welded at first to check fit, which bits ground off as required. So the card pieces ended up I the bin.
Oh, spot the deliberate mistake in my posting above about the N/side mount. As I also referred to it as the offside, sorry again.
Here's a piccy of the original Jag N/side mount, and of the area where it used to fit. As you can see, totally unusable on the S.
I'll go into detail about the exhausts soon...
TerryB
Sorry, but the cardboard mounts were cut up, then taped to the steel to create the 'real' mount. Plus the metal Mount was only tack welded at first to check fit, which bits ground off as required. So the card pieces ended up I the bin.
Oh, spot the deliberate mistake in my posting above about the N/side mount. As I also referred to it as the offside, sorry again.
Here's a piccy of the original Jag N/side mount, and of the area where it used to fit. As you can see, totally unusable on the S.
I'll go into detail about the exhausts soon...
TerryB
Before I shut the garage door before my summer break (which never really happened). I removed the engine yet again, I bolted on both the clutch assembly & the g-box. Then reinstalled the whole unit. Nothing to see, but it all looks good. I hadn't donre the g-box mount at that stage, so it was just blocked up.
Here are the O/side & N/side engine mounts in situ.
The exhaust ports are there if you look carefully, currently blocked up with paper towel !
So the manifolds have to go in there somehow.
Lots of thinking to do...
TerryB
O/side
N/side
Here are the O/side & N/side engine mounts in situ.
The exhaust ports are there if you look carefully, currently blocked up with paper towel !
So the manifolds have to go in there somehow.
Lots of thinking to do...
TerryB
O/side
N/side
Heads you win, tails I loose on that one. As if I had done that, it would have meant...
Remove 2.9 units first with the body in place, then do all of the AJ mod-ing with other mech things still in situ etc.
So I chose to strip & repair the chassis, brakes, suspension etc first. But yes, the newly painted chassis does need a bit of touching up now ! I have kept the original 2.9 chassis mounting points in place, just in case the car outlives my ownership & someone else wants to revert it back.
TerryB
Remove 2.9 units first with the body in place, then do all of the AJ mod-ing with other mech things still in situ etc.
So I chose to strip & repair the chassis, brakes, suspension etc first. But yes, the newly painted chassis does need a bit of touching up now ! I have kept the original 2.9 chassis mounting points in place, just in case the car outlives my ownership & someone else wants to revert it back.
TerryB
So, for the purposes of this thread, its now July 2016 (as that's when it was !).
I've reversed the car ( I think I can call it that again) into the garage, & put it up on x4 axle stands, so that I can crawl underneath as & when required.
And like most of you guys I'll guess, all of my projects have been done around that four lettered word called 'work' ! However as its near enough 42yrs working for that Ex national telecoms company with my initials in reverse. I'm starting to think about retirement. And just as I do, the company announce one of their infrequent 'early release' schemes. So I apply for it, thinking I wouldn't get it. But I did, and when you do, you're finished PDQ. So by the end of August I'm at home full time....
And no, I'm not in my garage full time, as it doesn't seem to be important to do that anymore.
But I do continue...
TerryB
I've reversed the car ( I think I can call it that again) into the garage, & put it up on x4 axle stands, so that I can crawl underneath as & when required.
And like most of you guys I'll guess, all of my projects have been done around that four lettered word called 'work' ! However as its near enough 42yrs working for that Ex national telecoms company with my initials in reverse. I'm starting to think about retirement. And just as I do, the company announce one of their infrequent 'early release' schemes. So I apply for it, thinking I wouldn't get it. But I did, and when you do, you're finished PDQ. So by the end of August I'm at home full time....
And no, I'm not in my garage full time, as it doesn't seem to be important to do that anymore.
But I do continue...
TerryB
So far I have totally worked on my own, but there are times when one does need the help from professional services. I think the exhaust manifolds come under that heading...
Having previously made purchases from a local-ish custom exhaust manufacturer, I called in to have a chat. My first thoughts was to give them the car, & let them do it 100%.
(To be cont'd).
TerryB
Having previously made purchases from a local-ish custom exhaust manufacturer, I called in to have a chat. My first thoughts was to give them the car, & let them do it 100%.
(To be cont'd).
TerryB
Exhaust manifolds cont'd...
Our conversation obviously came onto the cost of taking on that work. Where a fair percentage of that would be for labour, especially if they also had to remove the engine.
I don't know what a pair of standard design 2.9 manifolds would cost in stainless steel, but I'll bet their best estimate (for my manifolds) as suggested to me, was at least twice that !!!!
I think my face might have suggested that I wasn't so happy spending that amount. But I think their guy could see that I was keen on being involved. He asked if I could make drawings, or even mockups of what I wanted. As if I could, he would make up the manifolds only tack welded together to allow Some adjustments.
We shook hands, not on a price, but with a verbal agreement that I would go home & give it my best shot at doing the design work.
TerryB.
Our conversation obviously came onto the cost of taking on that work. Where a fair percentage of that would be for labour, especially if they also had to remove the engine.
I don't know what a pair of standard design 2.9 manifolds would cost in stainless steel, but I'll bet their best estimate (for my manifolds) as suggested to me, was at least twice that !!!!
I think my face might have suggested that I wasn't so happy spending that amount. But I think their guy could see that I was keen on being involved. He asked if I could make drawings, or even mockups of what I wanted. As if I could, he would make up the manifolds only tack welded together to allow Some adjustments.
We shook hands, not on a price, but with a verbal agreement that I would go home & give it my best shot at doing the design work.
TerryB.
So other than fitting a new gasket & bolting it down, that's the offside in place. That's including the next pipe section that takes it horizontal & towards mating up with the original long centre silencer.
However the nearside has been another story. My plastic mockups only have a 5mm flange thickness, & the pipes are about 5mm in diameter narrower than the steel pipe.
On the offside this wasn't a problem, but on the nearside it was. I have now returned the 'tweeked' NS manifold for the 3rd time. Don't get me wrong, it hasn't been anyone's fault that it didn't quite fit. Its just that it does really need to hug the contour of the engine, so that it has maximum space away from the chassis (for engine rock).
In theory all I'm waiting for now, is for it to be seam welded up.
Once they're both on for good, I am not going to complete the exhaust system just yet. As I can boltup the engine & g-box mounts for good, & then get a custom propshaft made up.
Plus I can cut the Jaguar gearshift linkage down to suit its new location. Maybe then, I can sit in the car and pretend to be driving it !!
I can also get on and do the fabricating of the alternator, pas pump, & belt tensioner brackets.
This is where I'm at today (7/12/16), waiting on the NS manifold. So my messages to the thread will now slow down somewhat.
And I am not thinking forward of the jobs as listed above.
Although there's loads to do....
Cooling system
Tank, fuel system, & TB
Ecu & electrics
Interior work
Fit new hood I already have
Conclude brakes
Conclude Pas
Bonnet hinge mod
Boot release cable
Sort out slow ns door glass op.
Get steering/suspension setup/aligned
++++++
TerryB
However the nearside has been another story. My plastic mockups only have a 5mm flange thickness, & the pipes are about 5mm in diameter narrower than the steel pipe.
On the offside this wasn't a problem, but on the nearside it was. I have now returned the 'tweeked' NS manifold for the 3rd time. Don't get me wrong, it hasn't been anyone's fault that it didn't quite fit. Its just that it does really need to hug the contour of the engine, so that it has maximum space away from the chassis (for engine rock).
In theory all I'm waiting for now, is for it to be seam welded up.
Once they're both on for good, I am not going to complete the exhaust system just yet. As I can boltup the engine & g-box mounts for good, & then get a custom propshaft made up.
Plus I can cut the Jaguar gearshift linkage down to suit its new location. Maybe then, I can sit in the car and pretend to be driving it !!
I can also get on and do the fabricating of the alternator, pas pump, & belt tensioner brackets.
This is where I'm at today (7/12/16), waiting on the NS manifold. So my messages to the thread will now slow down somewhat.
And I am not thinking forward of the jobs as listed above.
Although there's loads to do....
Cooling system
Tank, fuel system, & TB
Ecu & electrics
Interior work
Fit new hood I already have
Conclude brakes
Conclude Pas
Bonnet hinge mod
Boot release cable
Sort out slow ns door glass op.
Get steering/suspension setup/aligned
++++++
TerryB
The nearside manifold is back from the fabricators, and what's more it fits (trial fit only). So I can get both exhaust/head faces cleaned & readied for final fitting.
They both might even be in place (for good) including bolting down the engine and g-box mounts, before the new year!
Photo of the ns manifold in situ (its not as close to the chassis as it looks).
TerryB
Oh, I didn't mention that the exhaust fabricators I used are... Custom Chrome of Nuneaton. Who will also be doing the fabs for the next sections of exhaust. Plus a custom system (my design again) for my 2.8 panther.
They both might even be in place (for good) including bolting down the engine and g-box mounts, before the new year!
Photo of the ns manifold in situ (its not as close to the chassis as it looks).
TerryB
Oh, I didn't mention that the exhaust fabricators I used are... Custom Chrome of Nuneaton. Who will also be doing the fabs for the next sections of exhaust. Plus a custom system (my design again) for my 2.8 panther.
Agreed Damian...
It just shows that the same thing can be done differently but achieve a successful result.
On Damian's phono of the nearside, the new engine mount can be seen (towards the front of the engine) which means it needs something to attach to on the chassis. That's where mine is totally different, that I need that engine space for one of the belt driven ancillaries (probably the alternator). So my engine mount is much further back & attaches to the original 2.9 chassis mount. Which in turn means that the exhaust manifold is a different design too, as is my os manifold.
But all should make note of our joint words, & common fact that it IS essential that both manifolds closely follow the contour of the engine if you want them to exit rearwards.
As Confucious says, the devil is in the detail, of which there are many & varied, to consider.
TerryB
It just shows that the same thing can be done differently but achieve a successful result.
On Damian's phono of the nearside, the new engine mount can be seen (towards the front of the engine) which means it needs something to attach to on the chassis. That's where mine is totally different, that I need that engine space for one of the belt driven ancillaries (probably the alternator). So my engine mount is much further back & attaches to the original 2.9 chassis mount. Which in turn means that the exhaust manifold is a different design too, as is my os manifold.
But all should make note of our joint words, & common fact that it IS essential that both manifolds closely follow the contour of the engine if you want them to exit rearwards.
As Confucious says, the devil is in the detail, of which there are many & varied, to consider.
TerryB
Edited by Blue 30 on Monday 12th December 20:26
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