Discussion
As part of my epic gearbox repair saga I took out the engine & gearbox and in order to do so I had to remove the distributor.
The procedure I used to set the timing when it went back in was to set roughly at 12 deg btdc and then when it was running (albeit roughly) use a light strobe to get it at 12 deg btdc at idle. I did this when the engine was cold and the engine ran very smoothly.
I've just given the car it 1st good run since reinstalling the engine and it misfires when warm when pressing on. Was my timing procedure right or wrong and could it be causing the misfire?
Thanks for any advice.
Regards,
Mark
PS. Oh, it was standing with a tiny bit of optimax in the tank which was what it was running on when I did the timing. I put 10 quids worth of normal unleaded in for my little trip (no shell garage) but I did this when the car was cold so don't know if it misfired on the optimax as it only misfired when warm.
>>> Edited by mhibbins on Sunday 8th September 19:42
The procedure I used to set the timing when it went back in was to set roughly at 12 deg btdc and then when it was running (albeit roughly) use a light strobe to get it at 12 deg btdc at idle. I did this when the engine was cold and the engine ran very smoothly.
I've just given the car it 1st good run since reinstalling the engine and it misfires when warm when pressing on. Was my timing procedure right or wrong and could it be causing the misfire?
Thanks for any advice.
Regards,
Mark
PS. Oh, it was standing with a tiny bit of optimax in the tank which was what it was running on when I did the timing. I put 10 quids worth of normal unleaded in for my little trip (no shell garage) but I did this when the car was cold so don't know if it misfired on the optimax as it only misfired when warm.
>>> Edited by mhibbins on Sunday 8th September 19:42
When you removed the distributor did you mark where it went so that you could replace it without upsetting the timing?
I seem to remember that the ignition timing is factory set and left and is modified by the ECU as well (unleaded plug setting for a start). I think it is around 8 degrees statically (12 for the 2.8) but then the car is hooked up to diagnostic and the timing adjusted for emissions so there is no specific final value as it depends on the engine. Once set, that is it.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
I seem to remember that the ignition timing is factory set and left and is modified by the ECU as well (unleaded plug setting for a start). I think it is around 8 degrees statically (12 for the 2.8) but then the car is hooked up to diagnostic and the timing adjusted for emissions so there is no specific final value as it depends on the engine. Once set, that is it.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:Erm, no. I took a photo of it though and that gave me a rough idea where to place it but as we had the engine half out and were a bit hacked off with the whole thing it never occured to me.
When you removed the distributor did you mark where it went so that you could replace it without upsetting the timing?
I seem to remember that the ignition timing is factory set and left and is modified by the ECU as well (unleaded plug setting for a start). I think it is around 8 degrees statically (12 for the 2.8) but then the car is hooked up to diagnostic and the timing adjusted for emissions so there is no specific final value as it depends on the engine. Once set, that is it.
Oh bugger. So realistically I need to get it to a dealer to set up for me? Will all garages have the equipement required?
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks gadgit, got one of those but apparently there's more to it than that. I phoned the ford dealer and they say they have to hook it up to a diagnostics machine which tells the ECU that the timing is being adjusted. Then you do the timing based on the diagnostics machine and the emissions.
If you don't do this it gets all confused and puts you into get you home mode.
Mine's booked in in 2 weeks time (!) and it costs 25 quid plus vat apparently.
Mark
If you don't do this it gets all confused and puts you into get you home mode.
Mine's booked in in 2 weeks time (!) and it costs 25 quid plus vat apparently.
Mark
Interesting this, I wonder if my car would benifit from a diagnostic rolling road sesion, I know the wife would. Also on another thread on the forum, Johno has had some faults corrected by a rolling road and when I've finished the blessed thing I'll spend the money and have it done. I did mark mine ( the distributer) when I took it out, but I still have some faults on the engine picking up although I have the new pot gold contacts and a new pot as well. I am hoping johno replies to see what they changed in the electrics to improve his cars running.
gadgit.
gadgit.
What the rolling road identified was that the throttle pot was reading marginlly out when it reached a critical temp. The timing was slightly out and the mixture was way to weak.
Considering that all of these had been checked by normal diagnostics and it had not identified them you can see why a rolling road session can prove invaluable.
The timing as Steve said is factory set and to get it accurate you need to plug into the ECU to put it into 'standby' or something like that and then adjust accordingly.
If you don't do thid the ECU is trying to readjust as you are trying to adjust .... if you see what I mean.
The timing is obviously critical as if this isn't right then whatever else you do to the engine you are only treating symptoms rather than addressing cause.
The combination of the three problems I had meant the engine running was fowl. Gave the impression of running too rich. Would stall in traffic. Would run too hot and this went on for 3 months. We changed Pots, Throttle bodies and all sorts of sensors and still nothing.... 1.5hrs on Power Eng. Rolling road and they had it sorted. They also managed to get the fueling right and hey presto the best performance figures the car has ever posted.
I know figures are variable by road and by atmospheric conditions but this was the quickest the car ever felt.
178 bhp & 191 lbft .... That torque figure is way above standard and it also has an ACT Performance Products exhaust. In fact Tower View fit the same exhausts as made by JP's.
I cannot recommend it highly enough. It was the 3rd session the car has had on a RR and it was the best.
Cheers
Mark
Considering that all of these had been checked by normal diagnostics and it had not identified them you can see why a rolling road session can prove invaluable.
The timing as Steve said is factory set and to get it accurate you need to plug into the ECU to put it into 'standby' or something like that and then adjust accordingly.
If you don't do thid the ECU is trying to readjust as you are trying to adjust .... if you see what I mean.
The timing is obviously critical as if this isn't right then whatever else you do to the engine you are only treating symptoms rather than addressing cause.
The combination of the three problems I had meant the engine running was fowl. Gave the impression of running too rich. Would stall in traffic. Would run too hot and this went on for 3 months. We changed Pots, Throttle bodies and all sorts of sensors and still nothing.... 1.5hrs on Power Eng. Rolling road and they had it sorted. They also managed to get the fueling right and hey presto the best performance figures the car has ever posted.
I know figures are variable by road and by atmospheric conditions but this was the quickest the car ever felt.
178 bhp & 191 lbft .... That torque figure is way above standard and it also has an ACT Performance Products exhaust. In fact Tower View fit the same exhausts as made by JP's.
I cannot recommend it highly enough. It was the 3rd session the car has had on a RR and it was the best.
Cheers
Mark
Fuelling is controlled by the ECU using several inputs to dictate fuel quantity injected.
The mixture though is also adjustable at the air flow meters..if you have them (S3 etc)
The air flow meters are stacked one on top of the other and in general you only adjust the top meter as the bottom is set to a standard and the adjustability of the top one should be sufficient.
When you look at the top of the air flow meter you will see a recessed alan key bolt at the back left hand corner. This bolt adjusts the position of the vane and therefor the amount of air the engine can access.
I have adjusted my own mixture previously but still recommend getting it set up properly as I was again only treating symptoms and not a cause.
It is possible to adjust the bottom AFM aswell although not recommended if you are doing it yourself. Mine have both been adjusted to get a better balance between the 2.
They tend to run too weak at the top end as with many 'V' engines and this can be addressed by adjusted the fueling and mixture.
The aux air valve creates a bypass of the throttle to adjust mixture at idle but this only has limited capacity.
The adjuster screw on the throttle body will adjust the butterfly position and therefor the idle speed...if anyone was wondering.
A rolling Road session is usually quoted at around £60 an hour and it doesn't generally take any long. May take less.
Cheers
Mark
The mixture though is also adjustable at the air flow meters..if you have them (S3 etc)
The air flow meters are stacked one on top of the other and in general you only adjust the top meter as the bottom is set to a standard and the adjustability of the top one should be sufficient.
When you look at the top of the air flow meter you will see a recessed alan key bolt at the back left hand corner. This bolt adjusts the position of the vane and therefor the amount of air the engine can access.
I have adjusted my own mixture previously but still recommend getting it set up properly as I was again only treating symptoms and not a cause.
It is possible to adjust the bottom AFM aswell although not recommended if you are doing it yourself. Mine have both been adjusted to get a better balance between the 2.
They tend to run too weak at the top end as with many 'V' engines and this can be addressed by adjusted the fueling and mixture.
The aux air valve creates a bypass of the throttle to adjust mixture at idle but this only has limited capacity.
The adjuster screw on the throttle body will adjust the butterfly position and therefor the idle speed...if anyone was wondering.
A rolling Road session is usually quoted at around £60 an hour and it doesn't generally take any long. May take less.
Cheers
Mark
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