Alternator issues & inlet manifolds sealing?
Discussion
4.5 (Apologies for the long post)
1) Alternator: battery light very faint on idle, brightness increases with revs. Still charges, checked voltage at idle & 2k revs - all good. Changed big fuse. Visibly checked wiring and belt, still the same issue.
Removed alt - right royal pita! I’ve now bench tested the alt. and it charges battery with switch from B+ working also. Seems the black wire from car to B+ was broken and held on by the rubber seal as the plug end was left on the alt with very little hold upon removal - could this be the issue???
2) inlet manifolds: had to remove anyway (along with fuel rail and A/C module, brackets coil, leads etc). Used a cut down Allen key as access limited without this. Cleaned inlet body and surface as terrible condition. I’m thinking a very small line of gasket sealant is the way to go as the o rings look good but don’t really seem to protrude very far at all. I’m thinking this may also stop my throttle pot readings from bouncing all over the place with a guaranteed air tight seal. Interesting no spacers needed anywhere and not present!
The valley where the alt. sits was absolutely full of gunk. The whole area is filthy and it is a subject of derision from my mates as why would anyone put an alternator there in the first place (heat, access, gunk etc etc)!?
Any ideas or thoughts? Input appreciated.
1) Alternator: battery light very faint on idle, brightness increases with revs. Still charges, checked voltage at idle & 2k revs - all good. Changed big fuse. Visibly checked wiring and belt, still the same issue.
Removed alt - right royal pita! I’ve now bench tested the alt. and it charges battery with switch from B+ working also. Seems the black wire from car to B+ was broken and held on by the rubber seal as the plug end was left on the alt with very little hold upon removal - could this be the issue???
2) inlet manifolds: had to remove anyway (along with fuel rail and A/C module, brackets coil, leads etc). Used a cut down Allen key as access limited without this. Cleaned inlet body and surface as terrible condition. I’m thinking a very small line of gasket sealant is the way to go as the o rings look good but don’t really seem to protrude very far at all. I’m thinking this may also stop my throttle pot readings from bouncing all over the place with a guaranteed air tight seal. Interesting no spacers needed anywhere and not present!
The valley where the alt. sits was absolutely full of gunk. The whole area is filthy and it is a subject of derision from my mates as why would anyone put an alternator there in the first place (heat, access, gunk etc etc)!?
Any ideas or thoughts? Input appreciated.
Have recently resolved my alternator problem.....with a new one, so have done recent research. My symptoms were a glowing battery light and poor running, in that you couldn't drive it at a steady speed.
I think the black wire on the alternator goes to the ECU. When my alternator was giving sporadic output, even though it seemed to charge the battery ok, the MIL kept lighting up and it didn't run particularly well. A mate of mine's Cerb had running problems (random idle speeds) and this was traced to that black ECU wire being broken where it connected to the alternator.
I think the black wire on the alternator goes to the ECU. When my alternator was giving sporadic output, even though it seemed to charge the battery ok, the MIL kept lighting up and it didn't run particularly well. A mate of mine's Cerb had running problems (random idle speeds) and this was traced to that black ECU wire being broken where it connected to the alternator.
Wolvesboy said:
4.5 (Apologies for the long post)
1) Alternator: battery light very faint on idle, brightness increases with revs.
Still charges, checked voltage at idle & 2k revs - all good.
Changed big fuse. Visibly checked wiring and belt, still the same issue.
Removed alt - right royal pita! I’ve now bench tested the alt. and it charges battery
with switch from B+ working also.
Seems the black wire from car to B+ was broken and held on by the rubber seal as the
plug end was left on the alt with very little hold upon removal - could this be the issue???
2) inlet manifolds: had to remove anyway (along with fuel rail and A/C module, brackets coil, leads etc).
Used a cut down Allen key as access limited without this.
Cleaned inlet body and surface as terrible condition.
I’m thinking a very small line of gasket sealant is the way to go as the o rings look good but
don’t really seem to protrude very far at all.
I’m thinking this may also stop my throttle pot readings from bouncing all over the place with
a guaranteed air tight seal.
Interesting no spacers needed anywhere and not present!
The valley where the alt. sits was absolutely full of gunk.
The whole area is filthy and it is a subject of derision from my mates as
why would anyone put an alternator there in the first place (heat, access, gunk etc etc)!?
Any ideas or thoughts? Input appreciated.
Hi WB 1) Alternator: battery light very faint on idle, brightness increases with revs.
Still charges, checked voltage at idle & 2k revs - all good.
Changed big fuse. Visibly checked wiring and belt, still the same issue.
Removed alt - right royal pita! I’ve now bench tested the alt. and it charges battery
with switch from B+ working also.
Seems the black wire from car to B+ was broken and held on by the rubber seal as the
plug end was left on the alt with very little hold upon removal - could this be the issue???
2) inlet manifolds: had to remove anyway (along with fuel rail and A/C module, brackets coil, leads etc).
Used a cut down Allen key as access limited without this.
Cleaned inlet body and surface as terrible condition.
I’m thinking a very small line of gasket sealant is the way to go as the o rings look good but
don’t really seem to protrude very far at all.
I’m thinking this may also stop my throttle pot readings from bouncing all over the place with
a guaranteed air tight seal.
Interesting no spacers needed anywhere and not present!
The valley where the alt. sits was absolutely full of gunk.
The whole area is filthy and it is a subject of derision from my mates as
why would anyone put an alternator there in the first place (heat, access, gunk etc etc)!?
Any ideas or thoughts? Input appreciated.
Your post had me
I am just at the tail end of your process and understand your woes.
From what I have read, the reason the AJP8 is arranged in this "compact" format is because they originally
had planned to sell the unit as a self-contained product to other customers and therefore wanted to keep
the whole unit as small and light as poss.
Fab idea but we suffer as a result of a mis-targeted demograph
(One of my projects is to build a larger volume intake system with the ignition coils suspended
in it, making them more accessible and keeping them cooler)
In the last few thousand miles I wa getting blow-back form throttles 4 & 6 and it wasn't until I stripped
the whole set up that I found a previous owner had fitted an alternator with too-large a body
thereby not allowing the driver's throttle body to sit completely.
The Allen screws which locates it were, correspondingly, not torqued correctly.
This forced me to follow an unusual sequence when tightening the Throttle Body locating srews.
The screw at each end is concealed by the portion of TB that overhangs it and so I had to tighten the ends
first in order to extract the Allen Key from their location. The centre screws, which are more easily accessible,
could then be tightened.
I also used a film of gasket goo, specifically built-up on the inside of the O rings.
Unfortunately I can offer no advice on the charging circuit. I am an electrical dullo and
my problem was created by the Alternator belt snapping.
Best o'
, MateI think it's fairly common for the heat barriers not to seal, mine had been leaking for sometime before I got around to replacing them.
Just in time by the looks of it.
10 years ago iirc Powers were trialing a new once piece jobbie, turns out it didn't work, I think therfore we're stuck with what we have :-)
Just in time by the looks of it.
10 years ago iirc Powers were trialing a new once piece jobbie, turns out it didn't work, I think therfore we're stuck with what we have :-)
Thanks for the input fellas.
The throttle bodies are completely in the way of the outside bolts - an amended Allen key was the only way for me. God awful design throughout.
I’ve sealed the inlet body to the “gasket” and then that to the head - I cannot see it being a good seal otherwise even though my O rings were in very good knick. As a test I only did this to my odd bank. I’m looking forward to the results.
Access to the alternator is a joke too. Engineering mates who also tinker cannot believe the location/ set up (heat, changing belt access etc is laughable). Personally, I recommend anyone attempting to remove the alternator, removes the A/C body and bracket then the driver’s side inlet manifold at the very least. I ended up removing the alternator bracket AND the fuel rail as they are completely in the way.
The idea of removing both inlet manifolds with the fuel rail intact is a great idea BUT with the outward pressure of the injectors on the inlet manifolds I can see getting them back on would be very difficult - esp with those outside bolts as mentioned earlier. I stand to be corrected though!
I ended up re routing the top fuel line as well and had to double check everything else (leads, belts, connections etc) as easily dislodged during the process.
Fingers crossed it all works ok this morning.
Phew, I need a strong cup of tea!
The throttle bodies are completely in the way of the outside bolts - an amended Allen key was the only way for me. God awful design throughout.
I’ve sealed the inlet body to the “gasket” and then that to the head - I cannot see it being a good seal otherwise even though my O rings were in very good knick. As a test I only did this to my odd bank. I’m looking forward to the results.
Access to the alternator is a joke too. Engineering mates who also tinker cannot believe the location/ set up (heat, changing belt access etc is laughable). Personally, I recommend anyone attempting to remove the alternator, removes the A/C body and bracket then the driver’s side inlet manifold at the very least. I ended up removing the alternator bracket AND the fuel rail as they are completely in the way.
The idea of removing both inlet manifolds with the fuel rail intact is a great idea BUT with the outward pressure of the injectors on the inlet manifolds I can see getting them back on would be very difficult - esp with those outside bolts as mentioned earlier. I stand to be corrected though!
I ended up re routing the top fuel line as well and had to double check everything else (leads, belts, connections etc) as easily dislodged during the process.
Fingers crossed it all works ok this morning.
Phew, I need a strong cup of tea!
Wolvesboy said:
....
Fingers crossed it all works ok this morning.
.... and the good news is ????Fingers crossed it all works ok this morning.
Just in case it didn't go as you'd hoped I can console you with the fact that mine absolutely pissed petrol all over when the ignition turned the fuel pump on.
Luckily I had bought the O Rings in two sizes and the thicker set did the job.
Then I found that I'd re-assembled the coil leads on the wrong plugs
Everything worked on the third start,thank my deity !
Best o'
Turned it over - BANG backfire - #2 & #4 leads needed swapping!
Checked all of the lines and no leaks, perfect.
However, mu initial problem with my alternator persists. The battery light is still faint on idle & glows brighter with increasing revs. I’m going to recheck my black wire again as I crimped it rather than soldering it.
Other than that I’m stuck!
Checked all of the lines and no leaks, perfect.
However, mu initial problem with my alternator persists. The battery light is still faint on idle & glows brighter with increasing revs. I’m going to recheck my black wire again as I crimped it rather than soldering it.
Other than that I’m stuck!
Always replace the O rings - they cost pennies each so no reason not to do so
The intake bolts need a ball ended allen key, different makes have different shaped ends, so it's worth finding ones that allow quite a large angle
I used to leave them loose so that I could fit the injectors and fuel rail, but now I have found that they can be properly tightened
Next I fit the the injectors, with new O rings and engine assembly lube, and then the rail last, again with new O rings and plenty of engine assembly lube
Torco MPZ lube works really well, but make sure you have plenty of spare O rings in case any get nicked during assembly
The intake bolts need a ball ended allen key, different makes have different shaped ends, so it's worth finding ones that allow quite a large angle
I used to leave them loose so that I could fit the injectors and fuel rail, but now I have found that they can be properly tightened
Next I fit the the injectors, with new O rings and engine assembly lube, and then the rail last, again with new O rings and plenty of engine assembly lube
Torco MPZ lube works really well, but make sure you have plenty of spare O rings in case any get nicked during assembly
Wolvesboy said:
However, mu initial problem with my alternator persists. The battery light is still faint on idle & glows brighter with increasing revs. I’m going to recheck my black wire again as I crimped it rather than soldering it.
Have you compared the actual output from the alternator with what is shown on the software? My battery light was glowing even though the alternator output measured with a meter seemed ok. The ECU voltages were all over the place; 16v to 9v and it was showing a battery 'fault'.Soldered the black wire....... battery light still doing it’s thing.
Really, REALLY pissed off now. My even bank is playing up once more - the throttle pot will not adjust below +15 so running rich again. Engine running like a dog with no adjustment possible. I cannot believe the lambda sensor could have been fouled so much by 5 mins of driving trying to get it up temps. Then my doors wouldn’t open. Then the passenger side rear is now whining.
REALLY sick of this pos now. I think I’ve actually only driven it about 10 times in the last 6 months because something always goes wrong each time I drive it. Absolute pos.
Really, REALLY pissed off now. My even bank is playing up once more - the throttle pot will not adjust below +15 so running rich again. Engine running like a dog with no adjustment possible. I cannot believe the lambda sensor could have been fouled so much by 5 mins of driving trying to get it up temps. Then my doors wouldn’t open. Then the passenger side rear is now whining.
REALLY sick of this pos now. I think I’ve actually only driven it about 10 times in the last 6 months because something always goes wrong each time I drive it. Absolute pos.
ukkid35 said:
Always replace the O rings - they cost pennies each so no reason not to do so
The intake bolts need a ball ended allen key, different makes have different shaped ends, so it's worth finding ones that allow quite a large angle
I used to leave them loose so that I could fit the injectors and fuel rail, but now I have found that they can be properly tightened
Next I fit the the injectors, with new O rings and engine assembly lube, and then the rail last, again with new O rings and plenty of engine assembly lube
Torco MPZ lube works really well, but make sure you have plenty of spare O rings in case any get nicked during assembly
I would not do it in this order as it risks cutting an o-ring on the fuel rail end which will then leak, whereas if you put the injectors into the rail first then you only risk the none pressure end. I have done it this way several times without damaging anything. I had the rail off two weeks ago to replace an alternator belt and apart from needing a special short allen key and some triple jointed fingers it was pretty simple needing only about an hours swearing.The intake bolts need a ball ended allen key, different makes have different shaped ends, so it's worth finding ones that allow quite a large angle
I used to leave them loose so that I could fit the injectors and fuel rail, but now I have found that they can be properly tightened
Next I fit the the injectors, with new O rings and engine assembly lube, and then the rail last, again with new O rings and plenty of engine assembly lube
Torco MPZ lube works really well, but make sure you have plenty of spare O rings in case any get nicked during assembly
Don't separate the fuel rail from the manifolds. Just undo the manifolds from the heads and lift the whole lot up. That way you don't need to mess around with injector O-rings, or taking off the fuel inlet. Simple. Done it many, many times.
As for your flickering, brightening light. Your alternator regulator has failed. I had the same fault after refurbing the car 2 years ago. It looked like it was charging, but when you looked at the recorder data from the diagnostic software - it was over voltage. The higher you rev the engine the higher the voltage and it's not clamped to 14v - hence the brightening light. You need to take it to an auto electrician to get it properly bench tested.
Replacement regulator costs about £30.
Beware - if you run it in this state you could fry other electrical systems!!
As for your flickering, brightening light. Your alternator regulator has failed. I had the same fault after refurbing the car 2 years ago. It looked like it was charging, but when you looked at the recorder data from the diagnostic software - it was over voltage. The higher you rev the engine the higher the voltage and it's not clamped to 14v - hence the brightening light. You need to take it to an auto electrician to get it properly bench tested.
Replacement regulator costs about £30.
Beware - if you run it in this state you could fry other electrical systems!!
Wolvesboy said:
Soldered the black wire....... battery light still doing it’s thing.
Really, REALLY pissed off now. My even bank is playing up once more - the throttle pot will not adjust below +15 so running rich again. Engine running like a dog with no adjustment possible. I cannot believe the lambda sensor could have been fouled so much by 5 mins of driving trying to get it up temps. Then my doors wouldn’t open. Then the passenger side rear is now whining.
REALLY sick of this pos now. I think I’ve actually only driven it about 10 times in the last 6 months because something always goes wrong each time I drive it. Absolute pos.
+ means it is running lean.. It is adding fuel.Really, REALLY pissed off now. My even bank is playing up once more - the throttle pot will not adjust below +15 so running rich again. Engine running like a dog with no adjustment possible. I cannot believe the lambda sensor could have been fouled so much by 5 mins of driving trying to get it up temps. Then my doors wouldn’t open. Then the passenger side rear is now whining.
REALLY sick of this pos now. I think I’ve actually only driven it about 10 times in the last 6 months because something always goes wrong each time I drive it. Absolute pos.
notaping said:
Don't separate the fuel rail from the manifolds. Just undo the manifolds from the heads and lift the whole lot up. That way you don't need to mess around with injector O-rings, or taking off the fuel inlet. Simple. Done it many, many times.
As for your flickering, brightening light. Your alternator regulator has failed. I had the same fault after refurbing the car 2 years ago. It looked like it was charging, but when you looked at the recorder data from the diagnostic software - it was over voltage. The higher you rev the engine the higher the voltage and it's not clamped to 14v - hence the brightening light. You need to take it to an auto electrician to get it properly bench tested.
Replacement regulator costs about £30.
Beware - if you run it in this state you could fry other electrical systems!!
All the other systems that affect the running of the car will be getting duff readings if the voltages are wrong so please get your alternator fixed before you continue chasing faults that may not be there.As for your flickering, brightening light. Your alternator regulator has failed. I had the same fault after refurbing the car 2 years ago. It looked like it was charging, but when you looked at the recorder data from the diagnostic software - it was over voltage. The higher you rev the engine the higher the voltage and it's not clamped to 14v - hence the brightening light. You need to take it to an auto electrician to get it properly bench tested.
Replacement regulator costs about £30.
Beware - if you run it in this state you could fry other electrical systems!!
The ECU works by reading voltages from sensors, if the voltages are wrong cause the reference point is too high then nothing will work as it should.
I’ve removed the alternator again - this time undoing the inlets both sides and lifting both sides with the rail attached up & away.
Seems a pretty good way of removing stuff BUT getting it back on in reverse will be a shocker as access is poor. Then attaching the leads etc through the fuel rail will be a pita.
I’m taking the alt to get it properly tested tomorrow - fingers crossed as I hope this is the issue as I don’t fancy tracing wires all over the place.
Seems a pretty good way of removing stuff BUT getting it back on in reverse will be a shocker as access is poor. Then attaching the leads etc through the fuel rail will be a pita.
I’m taking the alt to get it properly tested tomorrow - fingers crossed as I hope this is the issue as I don’t fancy tracing wires all over the place.
If it is the prob and you decide to replace BE VERY CAREFUL about what you replace it with.
As I said earlier, in my disastrous story, a previous owner had replaced the original with one which looked the same but, in fact, had a slightly larger casing. The result was an ill-fitting set-up which ground material off the Throttle Body and stopped it from settling correctly on the heads.
As I said earlier, in my disastrous story, a previous owner had replaced the original with one which looked the same but, in fact, had a slightly larger casing. The result was an ill-fitting set-up which ground material off the Throttle Body and stopped it from settling correctly on the heads.
Ok, alternator diodes and voltage regulator stuffed. Quoted $100 for each part plus labour with a new one coming in at $400 minimum.
My mates got a Griffith 500 alternator (same numbers A1271 100A) and having adjusted a 24mm to get the spindle off, it fits perfectly.
I’ve re fitted the fuel rail assembly as one - my initial concerns about it not fitting were overcome with gentle moving and aligning each bolt and tightening slightly. Ensuring every bolt was screwed in enabled me to tighten up. Worked a treat with no messing about trying to squeeze injectors on.
She now runs sweet having warmed up and adjusted again.
Cheers fellas.
My mates got a Griffith 500 alternator (same numbers A1271 100A) and having adjusted a 24mm to get the spindle off, it fits perfectly.
I’ve re fitted the fuel rail assembly as one - my initial concerns about it not fitting were overcome with gentle moving and aligning each bolt and tightening slightly. Ensuring every bolt was screwed in enabled me to tighten up. Worked a treat with no messing about trying to squeeze injectors on.
She now runs sweet having warmed up and adjusted again.
Cheers fellas.
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