Chim - buying advice

[j4ck100]

Hi all,

Looking to get into a Chim early next year - have read the buyers guides etc but thought i'd pop along to ask the experts

I'm thinking a 400 as i'll have a max budget of around 12k

Would it be worth paying the extra to purchase from a dealer, or private is OK?

Do the outriggers always need replacing after a certain time period? Or if kept garaged etc they can survive? If not already done then need to budget to be done?

Which sites would you keep an eye out on, and what do you think is a reasonable price range for a 95 onwards 400 with say 50-80k mileage?

Thanks,
Jack

[markcoopers]

I suspect you already know the answer to these questions.

Dealer vs Private.
I think the golden principle here is buy the best car you can, and that is not really a matter of where. Yes a reputable dealer will be a good start for quality cars and they have their reputation to uphold so may also find a willingness to help you sort niggles/budget for the work. However most of these cars are enthusiast owned and that does tend to mean that most owners do look after them. A poor dealer on the other hand will always be a poor dealer.

Outriggers.
It is not so much as time dependent but exposure and quality of previous work dependent. I'll be corrected in short order for this, but as a sweeping generalisation i would be suspicious of a car on original outriggers. Doing outriggers well is though not the big job it once was with many reputable garages perfecting techniques and materials to do it cost effective. As i suspect you already know, it is where you can not see that is the issue, not what you can.

For ales sites.
Here, sports n classics, Classic cars.....i am sure you already know this. However, join the club and get to a local meet....often an owner is thinking of selling and this may be the best way to find a loved and cared for car at the right budget.

The advice ringing in my ears was always buy on condition as most aspects can be changed to a personal choice. If budget is tight, then i would also be making sure that things like brake pads/discs are in life and tyres are new(ish) and not just MOT-able, these kind of extra costs early on can bite.

[j4ck100]

markcoopers said:

I suspect you already know the answer to these questions.

Dealer vs Private.
I think the golden principle here is buy the best car you can, and that is not really a matter of where. Yes a reputable dealer will be a good start for quality cars and they have their reputation to uphold so may also find a willingness to help you sort niggles/budget for the work. However most of these cars are enthusiast owned and that does tend to mean that most owners do look after them. A poor dealer on the other hand will always be a poor dealer.

Outriggers.
It is not so much as time dependent but exposure and quality of previous work dependent. I'll be corrected in short order for this, but as a sweeping generalisation i would be suspicious of a car on original outriggers. Doing outriggers well is though not the big job it once was with many reputable garages perfecting techniques and materials to do it cost effective. As i suspect you already know, it is where you can not see that is the issue, not what you can.

For ales sites.
Here, sports n classics, Classic cars.....i am sure you already know this. However, join the club and get to a local meet....often an owner is thinking of selling and this may be the best way to find a loved and cared for car at the right budget.

The advice ringing in my ears was always buy on condition as most aspects can be changed to a personal choice. If budget is tight, then i would also be making sure that things like brake pads/discs are in life and tyres are new(ish) and not just MOT-able, these kind of extra costs early on can bite.

Thank you, most useful

[swisstoni]

I’d do my best to see a few cars. Condition can vary tremendously.
One man’s ‘excellent condition’ can be someone else’s tatty.
Do not underestimate stuff like knackered carpets, upholstery and roof. Can cost a lot more than replaced outriggers to put right.

[j4ck100]

swisstoni said:

I’d do my best to see a few cars. Condition can vary tremendously.
One man’s ‘excellent condition’ can be someone else’s tatty.
Do not underestimate stuff like knackered carpets, upholstery and roof. Can cost a lot more than replaced outriggers to put right.

Thank you, useful.

Are the Rover V8s pretty reliable units in general? Anything to look out for there?

[Penelope Stopit]

Should you ever be checking one over

Take or get someone to take a close look as possible at as much wiring as can be got to, if any of the following terminals (see images below) can be found in use it means that the vehicle has been worked on by people that are clueless with electrics and there is also every chance that mechanical jobs around the vehicle have not been carried out to a good standard

Messed up electrics = Big bills in the future

I'm serious, the above method never fails

[j4ck100]

Thanks, from someone who is not knowledgable with electrics, what is the reason behind not using those terminals? Corrosion?

Thanks

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

j4ck100 said:

Thanks, from someone who is not knowledgable with electrics, what is the reason behind not using those terminals? Corrosion?

Thanks

I think they are saying these are bodge it items, so other repairs might be suspect.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Chassis problems aren't just limited to outriggers. Be sure to look at as much of the chassis as you can.

[Penelope Stopit]

j4ck100 said:

Thanks, from someone who is not knowledgable with electrics, what is the reason behind not using those terminals? Corrosion?

Thanks

Reason 1 is that they are not of a professional crimp type, they are crushed onto the cables conductors and sleeving and don't grip the sleeving adequately enough to support the joint

Reason 2 is corrosion as there is no sealing of the termination point

Professional crimp terminals fold around the conductor and sleeving

If they've been used on a vehicle you wish to purchase it would be a good idea to ask for a discount due to the electrical work needed in correcting the issues

[Penelope Stopit]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

j4ck100 said:

Thanks, from someone who is not knowledgable with electrics, what is the reason behind not using those terminals? Corrosion?

Thanks

I think they are saying these are bodge it items, so other repairs might be suspect.

Yes, if people can't be bothered to terminate cables correctly............What else has been skipped during repairs?

[ianwayne]

Here's a comprehensive guide, oh and I'd recommend listening to people who have actually owned or currently own one:

https://www.classiccars4sale.net/classic-car-how-t...

[Macbags]

Hi

I bought my Chim this summer and the best advice I can give is look at as many as you can as you will soon see the relative merits of one over the other. They are very seductive and it’s easy to get tempted into buying one of the first cars you see. I considered a dozen, viewed/ drove five before I found my car and viewed and drove 2 more before confirming my decision.

Don’t get too fixated with colour..... I refused to look at anything yellow or purple but other than that kept an open mind.........ended up buying a colour I hadn’t previously seen and in truth liked rather than loved. The condition history and the cars drivability are what sold it to me......ended up buying privately and therefore probably saved a couple of grand off a good forecourt

Respected dealers such as Giles Cooper, bespoke performance, srt8six are a good start to understand what’s good/what’s average but their cars are likely to be pushing your budget.

Take your time you have until spring as you really don’t want to be learning about your new pride and joy on wet roads covered in leaf litter

I don’t profess to be an expert but it was relatively easy to judge the good from the bad.

Good luck !

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Macbags said:

Hi


Take your time you have until spring as you really don’t want to be learning about your new pride and joy on wet roads covered in leaf litter

I picked my first one up in the dark one February night. Got stuck in the mother & father of blizzards. Nearly ran out of fuel & couldn't remember how to get to the fuel filler. Never been so glad to get home!

[Squirrelofwoe]

I was in a similar situation just over 3 years ago- badly wanted a Chimaera and had a budget of £12k.

If I was doing it all over again with the benefit of what I now know, I would either;

a) buy one of the cheapest cars going with the expectation that a lot of work would need doing- they often come up on the Facebook group etc at sub £10k (private sale)

b) save some more money and buy a properly sorted car at £15k-£20k (depending on engine spec) which had evidence of body-off rebuild, engine refresh (at least top end), all problem areas sorted etc.

I bought my car at £12k and got neither of the above.

When I bought it (from a dealer) the previous owner had recently spent a small fortune on;

-new outriggers
-new clutch
-new roof
-new Gaz Gold suspension fitted
-interior re-trim ('orrible carpet door trims replaced with leather etc)
-later style rear lights fitted

Receipts totaling almost £8k in the couple of years prior to my purchase.

All good- so far.

Since then (3 years ago) I have had the following done;

-new battery, cables, levan jump-start kit fitted
-fusebox re-located for better access
-proper setup for the suspension and geo
-new radiator
-new brake discs & pads all round
-new fuel pump
-new engine mounts
-plus all of the routine services including 6k & 12k.

Say another £2k

Then over the summer what started out as an engine top-end refresh (new camshaft) ended up as a fairly comprehensive engine overhaul when it was discovered the valves were well worn, several piston rings were broken, and the rod bearings needed replacing.

That little lot came to a further £5k.

So I bought a car for £12k, which had recently had £8k worth of work done to it. I have since spent a further £7k (actually over £9k but I'm ignoring the extra as it was exceptional circumstances) to get the car to where it is now.

Adding all that up it now owes me around £19k (conservatively). It badly needs a re-spray (I didn't prioritize paint condition as it lives outside) and will also need the body lifting at some point as the outriggers were only done with a partial lift back in 2014 prior to my ownership. It will also need a new alarm before long as I only have a single key/fob and the immobiliser sometimes won't deactivate when I park on a hill...

The £19k I have spent would buy one of the absolute best of the best cars out there, likely with a 4.5 or 5.0 engine, with all of the above work taken care of, including immaculate paint and likely a recent body-off resto too. Basically a car that has had £25k worth of work, would cost sub £20k.

The bottom line is, if paying for someone else's labour, it is FAR cheaper to buy a 'finished' example than to improve one yourself.

To go back to my original point, this is why I would either spend big and get one that had been largely taken care of, or try and blag a bargain privately with the expectation of the work needed to sort it.

There are undoubtedly some great cars out there at £12k (even more so now than when I bought back in 2016), but the reality is that all of these at this price point will need something doing to them, and in my view it is a lot cheaper to let someone else do it and then buy it off them

All that said, if you are handy with the spanners and have the time and space to sort the car yourself (I have neither of the latter and the former I draw the line at serious engine work!), then all of the above is less of an issue.

Final tip- it helps if your significant other is also onboard with TVR ownership. My fiancee loves my TVR as much as I do, which was a real blessing when staring down the barrel of an engine rebuild invoice 2 months before our wedding...

Utterly wonderful cars though and I couldn't be without mine. There really is nothing else like them available for same money.

[Squirrelofwoe]

To add to the above, my car is on 80k miles for reference.

I wouldn't get too hung up on mileage though- two important, and most likely entirely unconnected facts to consider;

-The majority of Chims seem to have done sub 50k miles despite some being 26 years old.

-Most days there is a post on the Chim owners FB page with someone complaining that their milometer has got stuck at 'x' mileage.



Buy on condition condition condition.

[Belle427]

I'd echo the above and buy one that someone else has spent the time and money on to perfect.
Otherwise you will spend more time working on it than actually enjoying it.

[j4ck100]

Thank you to all posters, certainly given me some food for thought - perhaps a preemptive call to the bank manager as well!

[Penelope Stopit]

Squirrelofwoe said:

I was in a similar situation just over 3 years ago- badly wanted a Chimaera and had a budget of £12k.

If I was doing it all over again with the benefit of what I now know, I would either;

a) buy one of the cheapest cars going with the expectation that a lot of work would need doing- they often come up on the Facebook group etc at sub £10k (private sale)

b) save some more money and buy a properly sorted car at £15k-£20k (depending on engine spec) which had evidence of body-off rebuild, engine refresh (at least top end), all problem areas sorted etc.

I bought my car at £12k and got neither of the above.

When I bought it (from a dealer) the previous owner had recently spent a small fortune on;

-new outriggers
-new clutch
-new roof
-new Gaz Gold suspension fitted
-interior re-trim ('orrible carpet door trims replaced with leather etc)
-later style rear lights fitted

Receipts totaling almost £8k in the couple of years prior to my purchase.

All good- so far.

Since then (3 years ago) I have had the following done;

-new battery, cables, levan jump-start kit fitted
-fusebox re-located for better access
-proper setup for the suspension and geo
-new radiator
-new brake discs & pads all round
-new fuel pump
-new engine mounts
-plus all of the routine services including 6k & 12k.

Say another £2k

Then over the summer what started out as an engine top-end refresh (new camshaft) ended up as a fairly comprehensive engine overhaul when it was discovered the valves were well worn, several piston rings were broken, and the rod bearings needed replacing.

That little lot came to a further £5k.

So I bought a car for £12k, which had recently had £8k worth of work done to it. I have since spent a further £7k (actually over £9k but I'm ignoring the extra as it was exceptional circumstances) to get the car to where it is now.

Adding all that up it now owes me around £19k (conservatively). It badly needs a re-spray (I didn't prioritize paint condition as it lives outside) and will also need the body lifting at some point as the outriggers were only done with a partial lift back in 2014 prior to my ownership. It will also need a new alarm before long as I only have a single key/fob and the immobiliser sometimes won't deactivate when I park on a hill...

The £19k I have spent would buy one of the absolute best of the best cars out there, likely with a 4.5 or 5.0 engine, with all of the above work taken care of, including immaculate paint and likely a recent body-off resto too. Basically a car that has had £25k worth of work, would cost sub £20k.

The bottom line is, if paying for someone else's labour, it is FAR cheaper to buy a 'finished' example than to improve one yourself.

To go back to my original point, this is why I would either spend big and get one that had been largely taken care of, or try and blag a bargain privately with the expectation of the work needed to sort it.

There are undoubtedly some great cars out there at £12k (even more so now than when I bought back in 2016), but the reality is that all of these at this price point will need something doing to them, and in my view it is a lot cheaper to let someone else do it and then buy it off them

All that said, if you are handy with the spanners and have the time and space to sort the car yourself (I have neither of the latter and the former I draw the line at serious engine work!), then all of the above is less of an issue.

Final tip- it helps if your significant other is also onboard with TVR ownership. My fiancee loves my TVR as much as I do, which was a real blessing when staring down the barrel of an engine rebuild invoice 2 months before our wedding...

Utterly wonderful cars though and I couldn't be without mine. There really is nothing else like them available for same money.

This is possibly the best forum post ever made

[Belle427]

Don't go too mad budget wise, there are some nice cars out there.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Edited by Belle427 on Tuesday 15th October 16:08