TVR S3c project
Discussion
Well, the project is advancing very slowly. I've had to clear stuff from my garage before being able to move around the car.
I moved the car while cleaning up and this is what I've found.
- I jumped the otter switch and the fan worked fine.
- When the cap on the swirl pot starts to hiss (with vapor coming out of it like a kettle, this is at just over 90C), the pipe on which the otter switch is fixed was warm but touchable (I'd say, not at 90C)
- The radiator stays stone cold
- There is play (less than 1mm) when I try to move the water pump pulley
- The kind of mechanical grinding sound definitely comes from the front of the engine
Sounds very much like a thermostat or water pump problem (most likely both) to me or even air in the system...
I moved the car while cleaning up and this is what I've found.
- I jumped the otter switch and the fan worked fine.
- When the cap on the swirl pot starts to hiss (with vapor coming out of it like a kettle, this is at just over 90C), the pipe on which the otter switch is fixed was warm but touchable (I'd say, not at 90C)
- The radiator stays stone cold
- There is play (less than 1mm) when I try to move the water pump pulley
- The kind of mechanical grinding sound definitely comes from the front of the engine
Sounds very much like a thermostat or water pump problem (most likely both) to me or even air in the system...
Edited by Real driver on Monday 13th January 17:55
Real driver said:
Sounds very much like a thermostat or water pump problem (most likely both) to me or even air in the system...
Agreed - it seems you don't have coolant circulating through the radiator, and given the steam you report it probably isn't circulating through the engine, either.Either the stat is stuck shut or, more likely, the pump is no longer pumping.
easiest thing to check is a stuck thermostat--> throw it out!!
never personally seen a completely failed water-pump (not transporting the water)...lots of things could be read about such a failure throughout the www but i have never seen it personally on an older car....with newer cars its a different story.
this said, the grinding noise from the fron end of the engine doesnt sound promising. can you upload a vido at youtube where the npise could be "heard"?
as the radiator remains cold, the fans consecutively do not kick in...so you need to sort-out the"radiator remains cold" problem first.
as precausion you can also change the waterpump or at least remove it to verify its ok inside.....ford parts arent expensive and lots of aftermarket pumps should be available for a reasonable price (ebay = 50,-€)
never personally seen a completely failed water-pump (not transporting the water)...lots of things could be read about such a failure throughout the www but i have never seen it personally on an older car....with newer cars its a different story.
this said, the grinding noise from the fron end of the engine doesnt sound promising. can you upload a vido at youtube where the npise could be "heard"?
as the radiator remains cold, the fans consecutively do not kick in...so you need to sort-out the"radiator remains cold" problem first.
as precausion you can also change the waterpump or at least remove it to verify its ok inside.....ford parts arent expensive and lots of aftermarket pumps should be available for a reasonable price (ebay = 50,-€)
Edited by GinG15 on Monday 13th January 20:53
I finally found time to do some work on the car. I changed the thermostat and the water pump and then bled the whole system.
Good news, there is no more overheating. The pump was pretty rusty, so was probably the culprit of the overheating all those years ago. I wonder if the recurring overheating wasn't because of the system not being correctly bled. Maybe the theromstat was stuck closed? I haven't tested the old one.
It's still making a rattling sound at around 2500 rpm. I think it's coming from underneath the car (exhaust maybe?).
The throttle seems to have quite a bit of lag/stutter between stepping on the throttle and the revs rising. Next thing to tackle then...
Good news, there is no more overheating. The pump was pretty rusty, so was probably the culprit of the overheating all those years ago. I wonder if the recurring overheating wasn't because of the system not being correctly bled. Maybe the theromstat was stuck closed? I haven't tested the old one.
It's still making a rattling sound at around 2500 rpm. I think it's coming from underneath the car (exhaust maybe?).
The throttle seems to have quite a bit of lag/stutter between stepping on the throttle and the revs rising. Next thing to tackle then...
Some news from Switzerland.
I've washed it, done an oil change and started bleeding the brakes.
Unfortunately, the rear left would bleed (nothing was coming out of bleed nipple) I noticed quite a lot of oil stains around the rear of the drum so I opened it (see pic).
So I need a new brake cylinder and shoes I suppose... Would I be correct in thinking that it is the state of the cylinder which is blocking the nipple?
I also have a query. It seems that Swiss market S3cs have a special exhaust. Has anybody seen this kind of exhaust before?
Finally, a pic of the car after it first (quick) was in over 10 years
I've washed it, done an oil change and started bleeding the brakes.
Unfortunately, the rear left would bleed (nothing was coming out of bleed nipple) I noticed quite a lot of oil stains around the rear of the drum so I opened it (see pic).
So I need a new brake cylinder and shoes I suppose... Would I be correct in thinking that it is the state of the cylinder which is blocking the nipple?
I also have a query. It seems that Swiss market S3cs have a special exhaust. Has anybody seen this kind of exhaust before?
Finally, a pic of the car after it first (quick) was in over 10 years
Edited by Real driver on Saturday 21st March 22:07
Edited by Real driver on Saturday 21st March 22:07
This muck is pretty typical of when fluid weeping from a brake cylinder mixes with brake dust and rust and is left undetected for ages. This is why I advocate an annual 'wheels & drums off' inspection of brakes, regardless of mileage.
The nipple is probably blocked with rust at its inner end. You could take it out and poke it clear, but in this instance you need a new cylinder and shoes anyway. Changing the brake fluid every two or three years prevents not only this blockage, but also the total seizure of the nipple.
The nipple is probably blocked with rust at its inner end. You could take it out and poke it clear, but in this instance you need a new cylinder and shoes anyway. Changing the brake fluid every two or three years prevents not only this blockage, but also the total seizure of the nipple.
TwinKam said:
This muck is pretty typical of when fluid weeping from a brake cylinder mixes with brake dust and rust and is left undetected for ages. This is why I advocate an annual 'wheels & drums off' inspection of brakes, regardless of mileage.
The nipple is probably blocked with rust at its inner end. You could take it out and poke it clear, but in this instance you need a new cylinder and shoes anyway. Changing the brake fluid every two or three years prevents not only this blockage, but also the total seizure of the nipple.
Yes, I'll be changing cylinders and shoes on both sides anyway. The car has been sitting for 10 years, but looking at the muck, I'd think that the cylinder was already leaking before storage... The nipple is probably blocked with rust at its inner end. You could take it out and poke it clear, but in this instance you need a new cylinder and shoes anyway. Changing the brake fluid every two or three years prevents not only this blockage, but also the total seizure of the nipple.
phillpot said:
Is it feasible that a car nearly 30 years old may have had a new (whatever they could get) exhaust some time in its life?
I don't think so. Swiss "MOT" is quite strict, so you can't just dump anything on the car. The car was sold in '94 and then dry stored in '09 or '10. It was also never left outside (As proof, there is very little chassis corrosion). The current exhaust looks like a 15-year-old exhaust to me...Also, my friend told me that the exhaust was specific to the Swiss market. It's relatively quiet too... If I was TVR and the non-cat exhaust fitted a cat car, that's what I would have done. but I'm just guessing...
The thing is, most testers and mechanics in your country will have only ever seen your S3C.
So while you cannot "throw anything on", if you did change the exhaust for one which was different, next time the car was in a garage would they actually know that it was different? Yes, it will look new, but for all they will know, you ordered it from TVR and it was identical to the one you took off.
Sure, if you put a straight through system with massive tail pipes on the back of a 1.6 Focus, then they will know it shouldn't be like that. But, I doubt they will know what an S3C should look like underneath.
So while you cannot "throw anything on", if you did change the exhaust for one which was different, next time the car was in a garage would they actually know that it was different? Yes, it will look new, but for all they will know, you ordered it from TVR and it was identical to the one you took off.
Sure, if you put a straight through system with massive tail pipes on the back of a 1.6 Focus, then they will know it shouldn't be like that. But, I doubt they will know what an S3C should look like underneath.
BIG DUNC said:
The thing is, most testers and mechanics in your country will have only ever seen your S3C.
So while you cannot "throw anything on", if you did change the exhaust for one which was different, next time the car was in a garage would they actually know that it was different? Yes, it will look new, but for all they will know, you ordered it from TVR and it was identical to the one you took off.
Sure, if you put a straight through system with massive tail pipes on the back of a 1.6 Focus, then they will know it shouldn't be like that. But, I doubt they will know what an S3C should look like underneath.
Very true. The tester will also probably be more lenient with a TVR than with a mass produced car too. My worry is if it "seems" too loud, it may be sound tested.So while you cannot "throw anything on", if you did change the exhaust for one which was different, next time the car was in a garage would they actually know that it was different? Yes, it will look new, but for all they will know, you ordered it from TVR and it was identical to the one you took off.
Sure, if you put a straight through system with massive tail pipes on the back of a 1.6 Focus, then they will know it shouldn't be like that. But, I doubt they will know what an S3C should look like underneath.
TVRees said:
My S2 - non cat - had the cat version original exhaust according to the below diagram. Typical of what you can expect from TVR.
Fit whatever was available.
I have the feeling that the non-cat exhaust is probably a bit quieter and that they are interchangeable.Fit whatever was available.
I have a question concerning the catalytic converters. The left side one on my car is actually touching the water pipe coming out of the water pump. I understand that the cats were an afterthought, but that they actually touch a part of the car which is part of the cooling system is madness... Is this normal?
Of course, the thermal protection has desintegrated. Has anybody replaced it on their car? with what, exhaust header wrap?
Don't know whether it is normal, but it isn't good.
Noise why, you could always fit a track day silencer that bolts onto the end of the tail pipes. Easily removable as well, for days you want to be noisy.
Something like this https://www.actproducts.co.uk/product-category/aut...
Noise why, you could always fit a track day silencer that bolts onto the end of the tail pipes. Easily removable as well, for days you want to be noisy.
Something like this https://www.actproducts.co.uk/product-category/aut...
[quote=Real driver]
I have the feeling that the non-cat exhaust is probably a bit quieter and that they are interchangeable.
I have a question concerning the catalytic converters. The left side one on my car is actually touching the water pipe coming out of the water pump. I understand that the cats were an afterthought, but that they actually touch a part of the car which is part of the cooling system is madness... Is this normal?
Of course, the thermal protection has desintegrated. Has anybody replaced it on their car? with what, exhaust header wrap
Cat equipped car should have a different hose arrangement my S3C certainly did when first bought. It has now been altered by me but the original route was away from the cat and included a metal pipe
https://tvr-s-series.net/images/downloads/Ersatzte... In the section on cooling refer to the bottom hose and the part labelled 13a / 13b is a section of metal tube. The normal solution in UK is to remove the cats
I have the feeling that the non-cat exhaust is probably a bit quieter and that they are interchangeable.
I have a question concerning the catalytic converters. The left side one on my car is actually touching the water pipe coming out of the water pump. I understand that the cats were an afterthought, but that they actually touch a part of the car which is part of the cooling system is madness... Is this normal?
Of course, the thermal protection has desintegrated. Has anybody replaced it on their car? with what, exhaust header wrap
Cat equipped car should have a different hose arrangement my S3C certainly did when first bought. It has now been altered by me but the original route was away from the cat and included a metal pipe
https://tvr-s-series.net/images/downloads/Ersatzte... In the section on cooling refer to the bottom hose and the part labelled 13a / 13b is a section of metal tube. The normal solution in UK is to remove the cats
Edited by chiefyo on Monday 30th March 15:45
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