Arnold gets another one
Discussion
HendryG said:
The way I see things going is Arnold, Park's and Macklin, Peter Vardy, John Clark, Lookers will continue to swallow up smaller rivals, possibly even acquire Halshaws few remaining Scottish outlets.
The one company I see as staying large but not getting any bigger is Eastern Western.
Eventually what will happen is every franchise will be ran absolutely everywhere by the big 6, except from small and niche franchises like SsangYong, MG, Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi. And maybe other very small dealerships such as Garnock Valley Ford, and those in more rural locations up North.
The more these lot grow the more they squeeze what independents are left so the independents bail out and offer their business to the big guys while its still worth something.
Im surprised the likes of Henry's Honda and Skoda, Ingram Group, Hawco, Springside Motors Kia, Belmont/JM Group, Barnetts of Dundee, Struans and so on havent been entirely swallowed up already.
Arnold is now making the move into branches he had the opportunity to buy 20-odd years ago and didnt, They are becoming very ruthless in their acquisition trail, and Parks have sprang into action after years of not growing much. It really wouldnt surprise me if they took over Phoenix in its entirety and its sites which Arnold own vacated and relocated elsewhere, They are the only large Scottish group which has any real interest in Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi etc.
It would cost a fortune to relocate the Phoenix sites and they are not in areas where their are obvious alternatives. I cannot see those franchises going to new buildings- unless a new Honda Glasgow is being built as rumoured. Honda market share does not justify a new glass palace though. The one company I see as staying large but not getting any bigger is Eastern Western.
Eventually what will happen is every franchise will be ran absolutely everywhere by the big 6, except from small and niche franchises like SsangYong, MG, Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi. And maybe other very small dealerships such as Garnock Valley Ford, and those in more rural locations up North.
The more these lot grow the more they squeeze what independents are left so the independents bail out and offer their business to the big guys while its still worth something.
Im surprised the likes of Henry's Honda and Skoda, Ingram Group, Hawco, Springside Motors Kia, Belmont/JM Group, Barnetts of Dundee, Struans and so on havent been entirely swallowed up already.
Arnold is now making the move into branches he had the opportunity to buy 20-odd years ago and didnt, They are becoming very ruthless in their acquisition trail, and Parks have sprang into action after years of not growing much. It really wouldnt surprise me if they took over Phoenix in its entirety and its sites which Arnold own vacated and relocated elsewhere, They are the only large Scottish group which has any real interest in Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi etc.
Henry's have bought Kyle St, have plenty of cash in the bank and are profitable. They can pick their exit point as things stand. They also have the very lucrative Skoda franchise which they have built on in the south side once again. The other non-central belt groups you mention hold decent franchises- VW, Toyota etc and have good modern facilities. I imagine they will be profitable. JM Group is what it is.
Think the EH Car Store in Glasgow is a sign they are planning on hanging around for the moment.
alangla said:
Other than Edinburgh Harley, do EasternWestern (or any of the other big groups) have any other bike dealerships? I remember Phoenix used to have the Honda franchise for Stirling (previously Grangemouth), but their website seems to indicate that it's cars only these days.
I think, not 100%, that Arnold Clark have BMW Motorrad at Harry Fairbairn BMW Inverness.Park's have BMW Motorrad in East Kilbride next to the huge multi franchise car place.
And John Clark also have BMW Motorrad at one of their BMW branches, either Aberdeen or Dundee, cant quite remember which.
Other than those I dont think there were any others, I think Pendragon/Stratstone/Evans Halshaw do or did run Harley Davidson and Triumph bike franchises down South.
Arnold did own North Harbour Motorcycles in Ayr, which i believe was Harry Fairbairn owned and taken over as part of the HF takeover but has been sold off now, and going further back their original Park Road branch had a franchise for both Peugeot Speedfight scooters and Nippy Sweetie scooters. That was a long time ago though.
Eastern acquires Grassicks. Would have imagined that John Clark would have had a look too given their Perth business and BMW/Mini territories.
http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/08/...
http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/08/...
cas20 said:
Eastern acquires Grassicks. Would have imagined that John Clark would have had a look too given their Perth business and BMW/Mini territories.
http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/08/...
You beat me to it, was just about to post that! Im surprised Arnold didnt shell out for it to add to the Harry Fairbairn group which seems to be randomly dotted everywhere with no clear adjoining territories. http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/08/...
I am a bit surprised at Western because they closed their own Perth branch a couple of years back, focussing more on their Edinburgh/Fife regions, and because other than new builds at Newbridge for a few brands they had been downsizing, they offloaded their Newcastle branch to Arnold, closed Perth as mentioned, got rid of Alfa Romeo in Glasgow, closed their Kennedy Street premises, sold off their Colinton Road premises and binned the Alfa Romeo, Suzuki and Seat franchises in Ediinburgh.
Finally I think this now leaves Crossflags in Dumfries as the only independent BMW dealer in Scotland/not owned by one of the big groups. Effectively only 5 BMW dealers in the whole of Scotland now, Arnold/Fairbairn, John Clark, Peter Vardy, Eastern Western and Parks/Dougie Park. Seems the premium brands are bad for allowing massive groups to run the whole country franchise network for them, Jag, Land Rover, Mercedes and Audi all being much the same as BMW.
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/auto...
According to that article they are opening 2 new franchised dealerships in Stirling next year. No idea what they are or even what they could be, cant be much brands not represented in Stirling they could open.
According to that article they are opening 2 new franchised dealerships in Stirling next year. No idea what they are or even what they could be, cant be much brands not represented in Stirling they could open.
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/auto...
Presumably the Motherwell one will take over the Taggarts Volvo showroom.
Presumably the Motherwell one will take over the Taggarts Volvo showroom.
HendryG said:
You beat me to it, was just about to post that! Im surprised Arnold didnt shell out for it to add to the Harry Fairbairn group which seems to be randomly dotted everywhere with no clear adjoining territories.
I am a bit surprised at Western because they closed their own Perth branch a couple of years back, focussing more on their Edinburgh/Fife regions, and because other than new builds at Newbridge for a few brands they had been downsizing, they offloaded their Newcastle branch to Arnold, closed Perth as mentioned, got rid of Alfa Romeo in Glasgow, closed their Kennedy Street premises, sold off their Colinton Road premises and binned the Alfa Romeo, Suzuki and Seat franchises in Ediinburgh.
Finally I think this now leaves Crossflags in Dumfries as the only independent BMW dealer in Scotland/not owned by one of the big groups. Effectively only 5 BMW dealers in the whole of Scotland now, Arnold/Fairbairn, John Clark, Peter Vardy, Eastern Western and Parks/Dougie Park. Seems the premium brands are bad for allowing massive groups to run the whole country franchise network for them, Jag, Land Rover, Mercedes and Audi all being much the same as BMW.
Yeah think they have focused on scale and what is profitable. Suzuki is rarely a prize for the big groups and with AC Seat in Edinburgh it was probably not worth the investment required. I am a bit surprised at Western because they closed their own Perth branch a couple of years back, focussing more on their Edinburgh/Fife regions, and because other than new builds at Newbridge for a few brands they had been downsizing, they offloaded their Newcastle branch to Arnold, closed Perth as mentioned, got rid of Alfa Romeo in Glasgow, closed their Kennedy Street premises, sold off their Colinton Road premises and binned the Alfa Romeo, Suzuki and Seat franchises in Ediinburgh.
Finally I think this now leaves Crossflags in Dumfries as the only independent BMW dealer in Scotland/not owned by one of the big groups. Effectively only 5 BMW dealers in the whole of Scotland now, Arnold/Fairbairn, John Clark, Peter Vardy, Eastern Western and Parks/Dougie Park. Seems the premium brands are bad for allowing massive groups to run the whole country franchise network for them, Jag, Land Rover, Mercedes and Audi all being much the same as BMW.
Interesting what franchises they will add in Stirling. One will be a permanent home for their Nissan dealership as the current site is only temporary. From the current line up they hold it could be....
Honda= Phoenix
Toyota= Arnold
VW= now Arnold too
BMW/Mini= Park's
Merc= Arnold at Grangemouth
Mazda= Arnold
Edited by cas20 on Wednesday 2nd August 15:46
Some hunting on Stirling councils planning portal looking at the plans and elevations shows that its going to being at Plot 18, Broadleys Business Park, Craigleith Road, which I think is where Stirling Audi, Arnold VW, Arnold Citroen etc. are.
Elevations show that showroom number 1 is to be Nissan, so moving from its current location at Springkerse Trade Park, which tbh is a good thing as its a strange site. Showroom number 2 doesnt have any manufacturer branding but is all glass fronted with black cladding along the sides and rear, to my mind it looks a bit like the Lexus showroom in Glasgow, but hard to tell from elevation plans as the quality is poor, and I dont think Lexus sell well enough to have another showroom, but can find no other information on it, and thats how the plans make it look.
I cant see Arnold or Parks gifting them sites theyve only recently acquired for BMW/Mini and VW, especially as VW and BMW are supposedly some of the most profitable franchises there are to hold, Doubt Arnold would gift them Toyota or Mazda either as Mazda is an integral part of their Kerse Road complex and AC Toyota sites are also supposedly mega profitable as well. Similarly I doubt Arnold would let go of Mercedes either and I cant see Phoenix and Honda parting in Stirling unless they were to exit all their dealerships in the place and I dont see that happening.
One thing that is pretty certain is soon all the big groups will control almost every dealership, although I see a lot of them simplifying the brands they hold, probably Arnold wont, but the rest yeah, Lookers down south is a good example where they are focussing on Renault/Dacia, Nissan, Ford, Vauxhall, Seat, Skoda, VW in the volume sector. Jag Land Rover, Volvo, Audi, Merc, BMW/Mini in the prestige sector and have cut away everything they dont consider core franchises so Lexus, Toyota, Citroen, Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, Jeep, have all gone and brands like Fiat, Honda etc. are down to 1 franchise and will soon be gone from their lineup.
Then you have your dealerships like Steven Eagell who only deal with Toyota and Lexus but run easily 15 Toyota sites so probably more than anyone else in the UK.
Its going to be a case of get bigger or get acquired yourself or end up having to shut up shop, in the end the main groups will all have the sites they want and will just periodically refurbish or redevelop the sites to latest CI standards. Sometimes a manufacturer might take the franchise in a particular area from 1 group and give to another and an even rarer occurence will be one big group selling to the other. But really what youll have is groups running franchises in entire territories adjoining, the complete opposite of what some manufacturers allowed in the 80s/90s.
My predictions are that someone is going to try and take over Peoples Scottish operations, possibly Parks to match their Stirling Ford dealership with Peoples Falkirk one, the Livingston dealership would add to their West Lothian presence and Edinburgh would give them capital presence, or maybe even Peter Vardy to get hands on another volume franchise.
I see Barnetts Volvo, Mazda and VW Dundee being a target for Arnold and Barnetts just being left with VW in St Andrews.
Hawco going to John Clark.
Then all that will be left is smaller places Like Hardie Peugeot, Struans, Phoenix, West End Skoda and some franchises in far flung places with small sites and rundown premises that the big groups dont want.
Elevations show that showroom number 1 is to be Nissan, so moving from its current location at Springkerse Trade Park, which tbh is a good thing as its a strange site. Showroom number 2 doesnt have any manufacturer branding but is all glass fronted with black cladding along the sides and rear, to my mind it looks a bit like the Lexus showroom in Glasgow, but hard to tell from elevation plans as the quality is poor, and I dont think Lexus sell well enough to have another showroom, but can find no other information on it, and thats how the plans make it look.
I cant see Arnold or Parks gifting them sites theyve only recently acquired for BMW/Mini and VW, especially as VW and BMW are supposedly some of the most profitable franchises there are to hold, Doubt Arnold would gift them Toyota or Mazda either as Mazda is an integral part of their Kerse Road complex and AC Toyota sites are also supposedly mega profitable as well. Similarly I doubt Arnold would let go of Mercedes either and I cant see Phoenix and Honda parting in Stirling unless they were to exit all their dealerships in the place and I dont see that happening.
One thing that is pretty certain is soon all the big groups will control almost every dealership, although I see a lot of them simplifying the brands they hold, probably Arnold wont, but the rest yeah, Lookers down south is a good example where they are focussing on Renault/Dacia, Nissan, Ford, Vauxhall, Seat, Skoda, VW in the volume sector. Jag Land Rover, Volvo, Audi, Merc, BMW/Mini in the prestige sector and have cut away everything they dont consider core franchises so Lexus, Toyota, Citroen, Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, Jeep, have all gone and brands like Fiat, Honda etc. are down to 1 franchise and will soon be gone from their lineup.
Then you have your dealerships like Steven Eagell who only deal with Toyota and Lexus but run easily 15 Toyota sites so probably more than anyone else in the UK.
Its going to be a case of get bigger or get acquired yourself or end up having to shut up shop, in the end the main groups will all have the sites they want and will just periodically refurbish or redevelop the sites to latest CI standards. Sometimes a manufacturer might take the franchise in a particular area from 1 group and give to another and an even rarer occurence will be one big group selling to the other. But really what youll have is groups running franchises in entire territories adjoining, the complete opposite of what some manufacturers allowed in the 80s/90s.
My predictions are that someone is going to try and take over Peoples Scottish operations, possibly Parks to match their Stirling Ford dealership with Peoples Falkirk one, the Livingston dealership would add to their West Lothian presence and Edinburgh would give them capital presence, or maybe even Peter Vardy to get hands on another volume franchise.
I see Barnetts Volvo, Mazda and VW Dundee being a target for Arnold and Barnetts just being left with VW in St Andrews.
Hawco going to John Clark.
Then all that will be left is smaller places Like Hardie Peugeot, Struans, Phoenix, West End Skoda and some franchises in far flung places with small sites and rundown premises that the big groups dont want.
Edited by HendryG on Wednesday 2nd August 15:55
Edited by HendryG on Wednesday 2nd August 16:13
HendryG said:
Some hunting on Stirling councils planning portal looking at the plans and elevations shows that its going to being at Plot 18, Broadleys Business Park, Craigleith Road, which I think is where Stirling Audi, Arnold VW, Arnold Citroen etc. are.
Elevations show that showroom number 1 is to be Nissan, so moving from its current location at Springkerse Trade Park, which tbh is a good thing as its a strange site. Showroom number 2 doesnt have any manufacturer branding but is all glass fronted with black cladding along the sides and rear, to my mind it looks a bit like the Lexus showroom in Glasgow, but hard to tell from elevation plans as the quality is poor, and I dont think Lexus sell well enough to have another showroom, but can find no other information on it, and thats how the plans make it look.
https://media.realla.co/uploads/property/brochures/original/2EGeChIXNidorKGnpIYMggElevations show that showroom number 1 is to be Nissan, so moving from its current location at Springkerse Trade Park, which tbh is a good thing as its a strange site. Showroom number 2 doesnt have any manufacturer branding but is all glass fronted with black cladding along the sides and rear, to my mind it looks a bit like the Lexus showroom in Glasgow, but hard to tell from elevation plans as the quality is poor, and I dont think Lexus sell well enough to have another showroom, but can find no other information on it, and thats how the plans make it look.
cas20 said:
The plot layouts in that brochure are old! The plot Arnie Citroen is on says "Weir Nissan, ground set aside for Weir Nissan" which I assume was what JM Group opened it as before changing to Citroen, Mitsubishi and Hyundai in later years before punting it to Arnold. cas20 said:
TOM Dundee appears to have gone. With Walkers in Fife no longer Citroen dealers, it leaves a big territory gap. Nearest to Dundee now is Mr Fairweather with Duthie's in Montrose.
Not sure what TOM are up to, if that really is Dundee closed I cannot work out why they bothered buying Alistair Flemings just to close the Ayr and Dundee branches down. They still list on Citroen UK website as a dealer, have you been past the site and seen it vacated or something?
You are not referring to Norman Fairweather who used to own the Skoda dealership in Dundee are you? if so thats a huge coincidence as I spotted a car with his sticker on the back at Central Car Auctions earlier, first time ive seen a car from there in absolutely years.
I actually came back to this topic to state that I had assumed that now that Park's new JLR branch in Ayr is fully operational and open right next door to their existing Jag/LR/Volvo branch, that their Honda dealership at Doonfoot Road would close and move into one of the 2 now vacant showrooms next to Volvo, however it seems that theyve put in just a couple of months ago an application to extend the Doonfoot premises and also take over land behind the dealership currently owned by the council, to redevelop into additional parking. It may end up being that Honda does move to Heathfield after all as there seems to be a lot of residents putting in objections to the council about it so the application may be refused, but certainly its Parks intention to keep Honda there and extend that site so not entirely sure what they had planned to do with the now vacant Jag and Land Rover showrooms, considering its a prominent and desirable area, and Volvo still uses the site.
Edited by HendryG on Wednesday 2nd August 21:43
Yeah that is the one- sad how his Skoda etc business ended.
I am not sure what TOM are up to- maybe they thought they could revive the three sites they acquired. It is less than a year since TOM themselves were acquired by a private equity investor- perhaps they are focusing on their core business.
I am not sure what TOM are up to- maybe they thought they could revive the three sites they acquired. It is less than a year since TOM themselves were acquired by a private equity investor- perhaps they are focusing on their core business.
cas20 said:
Yeah that is the one- sad how his Skoda etc business ended.
I am not sure what TOM are up to- maybe they thought they could revive the three sites they acquired. It is less than a year since TOM themselves were acquired by a private equity investor- perhaps they are focusing on their core business.
Has the Dundee site been boarded up or something to make you think its closed down?I am not sure what TOM are up to- maybe they thought they could revive the three sites they acquired. It is less than a year since TOM themselves were acquired by a private equity investor- perhaps they are focusing on their core business.
Its a bit before my time the Norman Fairweather thing, I just remember their Skoda and Proton branch in Dundee being in the news for running into financial difficulties and closing down and JC Specialist Cars taking over the franchise at the ex Glenvarigill Peugeot site, while the NF site lay empty for a while and I think eventually Richard Lawson/Autoecosse Subaru and Mitsubishi moved from Broughty Ferry into the NF site.
Were they a bigger company than just Dundee at some point? Im sure ive seen a pic on Flickr of a Rover 200 with a NF Peterhead sticker on the back, but I could be wrong.
cas20 said:
Yeah the Dundee site closed on the 31st of July.
My only dealings with Fairweather were as a Skoda and Suzuki retailer in the site now occupied by Autoecosse.
Found it:My only dealings with Fairweather were as a Skoda and Suzuki retailer in the site now occupied by Autoecosse.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/derelictscotland/958...
If you zoom in on that photo it seems to say Fairweather Motors Peterhead with the familiar NF logo to the side and a Nissan logo on the sticker too.
I didnt know they were Suzuki dealers, had heard they were Lada dealers back in the day though.
Wonder if TOM Citroen Kilmarnock will continue trading.
TOM gets another one - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...
cas20 said:
Eastern acquires Grassicks. Would have imagined that John Clark would have had a look too given their Perth business and BMW/Mini territories.
http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/08/...
Maybe JC can't justify more expenditure on top of their current expansion/relocation plans?http://www.am-online.com/news/dealer-news/2017/08/...
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