Forth Road Bridge after work each evening
Discussion
Chuck328 said:
A couple of months ago a massive sinkhole appears in the centre of a Japanese city, they have it all fixed in 48hrs.
Scotland 2017, 2am incident on a major route and still not resolved. Granted they need the winds to subside but still....
The Japanese road crew ended up doing the job again as the rushed first effort subsided catastrophically. If it's too windy to safely deploy a crane then no-one will do the job, the crane owners don't want to be sued and the crane drivers don't want to die.Scotland 2017, 2am incident on a major route and still not resolved. Granted they need the winds to subside but still....
But, hang on, when the new bridge is finished, doesn't the old one become public transport only?
(Hence making the whole new bridge scheme pointless, in my view)
Are they going to keep all the existing road connections to the old bridge in place so it can opened up to the public in situations such as this?
(Hence making the whole new bridge scheme pointless, in my view)
Are they going to keep all the existing road connections to the old bridge in place so it can opened up to the public in situations such as this?
dxg said:
But, hang on, when the new bridge is finished, doesn't the old one become public transport only?
So replacing a 2-lane bridge that can't support the volume of rush-hour traffic...with a 2-lane bridge. Genius.
Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
dxg said:
Are they going to keep all the existing road connections to the old bridge in place so it can opened up to the public in situations such as this?
Yes, but only inasmuch as coming off a slip road at the Ferrytoll park and ride, down round a roundabout and then back up another slip road (from the North). So not exactly painless or free-flowing, but do-able.tvrolet said:
So replacing a 2-lane bridge that can't support the volume of rush-hour traffic...with a 2-lane bridge. Genius.
Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
The bridge could have 10 lanes but if the roads at either end only have two lanes, how will that help?Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
If Westminster hadn't killed the Scottish and UK steel industry, maybe we could have had a local supplier.
As it is, probably the best we could offer was some Irn Bru!
dxg said:
But, hang on, when the new bridge is finished, doesn't the old one become public transport only?
(Hence making the whole new bridge scheme pointless, in my view)
Are they going to keep all the existing road connections to the old bridge in place so it can opened up to the public in situations such as this?
New crossing has much better wind protection and a hard shoulder, as I understand it, and these will hopefully mean those 2 lanes are open the vast majority of the time.(Hence making the whole new bridge scheme pointless, in my view)
Are they going to keep all the existing road connections to the old bridge in place so it can opened up to the public in situations such as this?
ianrb said:
Just had a conversation with a clueless acquaintance. She's not going to use the FRB because "if it's not strong enough for lorries how do you know it's strong enough for a car?". I could have attempted to explain, but it's more entertaining to know she's wasting an hour or so each day driving the long way round.
How is she getting on!?!?GoneAnon said:
tvrolet said:
So replacing a 2-lane bridge that can't support the volume of rush-hour traffic...with a 2-lane bridge. Genius.
Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
The bridge could have 10 lanes but if the roads at either end only have two lanes, how will that help?Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
On the South side there's the 2 lanes of traffic coming from the M90 from Glasgow/the West, 2 lanes from Edinburgh on the A90, plus traffic from the A904 (Bo'ness) and B800. So 6 lanes' worth of roads squeeze in to 2 to cross the bridge.
On the North side you've got traffic from Inverkeithing and Rosyth at Ferrytoll (queues at rush hour to join); south-Fife traffic (queues at rush hour to join) at the A921/A985, then a lane at Dunfermine at Admiralty, then the dual carriageway A92 joining the A90 at Halbeith...so 9 lanes' worth of traffic crossing as 2.
Have you not noticed how you can zip along the A90, or M90, or A904, or A921 or anything else in the area and it all grinds to a halt at the bridge...and then speeds up again afterwards as folks leave by the various other exits/roads/lanes? And it's not to do with the current 40mph limit although that doesn't help. Why do you think the 2-lane M90 northbound grinds to a halt when it meets the 2-lane A90 from Edinburgh? Clue - it's because both 2 lane roads have to get into just 2 lanes in total, plus support the Bo'ness traffic. Similarly, heading south the 2-line M90 is fine until the extra traffic/lanes from Kirkcaldy, Dalgety Bay, Rosyth, Dunfermine etc all join.
tvrolet said:
GoneAnon said:
tvrolet said:
So replacing a 2-lane bridge that can't support the volume of rush-hour traffic...with a 2-lane bridge. Genius.
Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
The bridge could have 10 lanes but if the roads at either end only have two lanes, how will that help?Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
On the South side there's the 2 lanes of traffic coming from the M90 from Glasgow/the West, 2 lanes from Edinburgh on the A90, plus traffic from the A904 (Bo'ness) and B800. So 6 lanes' worth of roads squeeze in to 2 to cross the bridge.
On the North side you've got traffic from Inverkeithing and Rosyth at Ferrytoll (queues at rush hour to join); south-Fife traffic (queues at rush hour to join) at the A921/A985, then a lane at Dunfermine at Admiralty, then the dual carriageway A92 joining the A90 at Halbeith...so 9 lanes' worth of traffic crossing as 2.
Have you not noticed how you can zip along the A90, or M90, or A904, or A921 or anything else in the area and it all grinds to a halt at the bridge...and then speeds up again afterwards as folks leave by the various other exits/roads/lanes? And it's not to do with the current 40mph limit although that doesn't help. Why do you think the 2-lane M90 northbound grinds to a halt when it meets the 2-lane A90 from Edinburgh? Clue - it's because both 2 lane roads have to get into just 2 lanes in total, plus support the Bo'ness traffic. Similarly, heading south the 2-line M90 is fine until the extra traffic/lanes from Kirkcaldy, Dalgety Bay, Rosyth, Dunfermine etc all join.
simoid said:
GoneAnon said:
That will be the new bridge he voted against the construction of?
I fear you may have invented that claim. It was supported by almost all if I recall correctly, with the Greens against.It turns out that Labour scrapped Tory plans for a new bridge when they took over but, as that was to be paid for with PFI, it could turn out to have been a good decision for the wrong reason.
Nonetheless, his jumping on an "SNP BAAAD" bandwagon when the latest problem is down to an a
hole that either can't read a sign, or thinks it doesn't apply to him, is shameful. The new bridge might have been ready if the weather had been better or if Labour/Literals while in government hadn't shelved the plan, all the while sending millions of unspent pounds back to Westminster.
Of course, there is form here where they all criticised the lack of Scottish steel in the construction, in the full knowledge that the UK can no longer make the right kind of steel any more.
Leithen said:
tvrolet said:
GoneAnon said:
tvrolet said:
So replacing a 2-lane bridge that can't support the volume of rush-hour traffic...with a 2-lane bridge. Genius.
Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
The bridge could have 10 lanes but if the roads at either end only have two lanes, how will that help?Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
On the South side there's the 2 lanes of traffic coming from the M90 from Glasgow/the West, 2 lanes from Edinburgh on the A90, plus traffic from the A904 (Bo'ness) and B800. So 6 lanes' worth of roads squeeze in to 2 to cross the bridge.
On the North side you've got traffic from Inverkeithing and Rosyth at Ferrytoll (queues at rush hour to join); south-Fife traffic (queues at rush hour to join) at the A921/A985, then a lane at Dunfermine at Admiralty, then the dual carriageway A92 joining the A90 at Halbeith...so 9 lanes' worth of traffic crossing as 2.
Have you not noticed how you can zip along the A90, or M90, or A904, or A921 or anything else in the area and it all grinds to a halt at the bridge...and then speeds up again afterwards as folks leave by the various other exits/roads/lanes? And it's not to do with the current 40mph limit although that doesn't help. Why do you think the 2-lane M90 northbound grinds to a halt when it meets the 2-lane A90 from Edinburgh? Clue - it's because both 2 lane roads have to get into just 2 lanes in total, plus support the Bo'ness traffic. Similarly, heading south the 2-line M90 is fine until the extra traffic/lanes from Kirkcaldy, Dalgety Bay, Rosyth, Dunfermine etc all join.
Leithen said:
tvrolet said:
GoneAnon said:
tvrolet said:
So replacing a 2-lane bridge that can't support the volume of rush-hour traffic...with a 2-lane bridge. Genius.
Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
The bridge could have 10 lanes but if the roads at either end only have two lanes, how will that help?Although in fairness the new one will have hard shoulders. I'm taking bets on them having to open the hard shoulders to traffic once folks realise it's made sod-all difference. Although the Chinese steel suppliers have no doubt done very well.
On the South side there's the 2 lanes of traffic coming from the M90 from Glasgow/the West, 2 lanes from Edinburgh on the A90, plus traffic from the A904 (Bo'ness) and B800. So 6 lanes' worth of roads squeeze in to 2 to cross the bridge.
On the North side you've got traffic from Inverkeithing and Rosyth at Ferrytoll (queues at rush hour to join); south-Fife traffic (queues at rush hour to join) at the A921/A985, then a lane at Dunfermine at Admiralty, then the dual carriageway A92 joining the A90 at Halbeith...so 9 lanes' worth of traffic crossing as 2.
Have you not noticed how you can zip along the A90, or M90, or A904, or A921 or anything else in the area and it all grinds to a halt at the bridge...and then speeds up again afterwards as folks leave by the various other exits/roads/lanes? And it's not to do with the current 40mph limit although that doesn't help. Why do you think the 2-lane M90 northbound grinds to a halt when it meets the 2-lane A90 from Edinburgh? Clue - it's because both 2 lane roads have to get into just 2 lanes in total, plus support the Bo'ness traffic. Similarly, heading south the 2-line M90 is fine until the extra traffic/lanes from Kirkcaldy, Dalgety Bay, Rosyth, Dunfermine etc all join.
The roads merging is undoubtedly the problem and a wider new bridge won't fix that. What would help is if everyone would just leave bigger gaps for traffic to merge into without having to slow to a crawl/stop.
The continentals seem to grasp the concept but the attitude here seems to be "make sure that b
d can't get in in front of me".The crack about the Chinese steel is petty and pointless, given that previous Westminster governments made sure (by accident or design?) that there was no UK capacity to make the type of steel required.
GoneAnon said:
I fear you may be right and I apologise.
It turns out that Labour scrapped Tory plans for a new bridge when they took over but, as that was to be paid for with PFI, it could turn out to have been a good decision for the wrong reason.
Nonetheless, his jumping on an "SNP BAAAD" bandwagon when the latest problem is down to an ahole that either can't read a sign, or thinks it doesn't apply to him, is shameful.
The new bridge might have been ready if the weather had been better or if Labour/Literals while in government hadn't shelved the plan, all the while sending millions of unspent pounds back to Westminster.
Of course, there is form here where they all criticised the lack of Scottish steel in the construction, in the full knowledge that the UK can no longer make the right kind of steel any more.
For reference, here is the tweet.It turns out that Labour scrapped Tory plans for a new bridge when they took over but, as that was to be paid for with PFI, it could turn out to have been a good decision for the wrong reason.
Nonetheless, his jumping on an "SNP BAAAD" bandwagon when the latest problem is down to an a
hole that either can't read a sign, or thinks it doesn't apply to him, is shameful. The new bridge might have been ready if the weather had been better or if Labour/Literals while in government hadn't shelved the plan, all the while sending millions of unspent pounds back to Westminster.
Of course, there is form here where they all criticised the lack of Scottish steel in the construction, in the full knowledge that the UK can no longer make the right kind of steel any more.
Doesn't look like SNP baaaad to me, although it's not a particularly helpful observation. Perhaps some people, including you, just expect that sort of behaviour because you know you do it yourself re the English/Westminster?
scotsman said:
The Queensferry Crossing will not now open in May, economy secretary Keith Brown has admitted to MSPs
Completion of the £1.35 billion replacement for the Forth Road Bridge has been put back by "adverse weather conditions".
However, Mr Brown would not be drawn on reports that contractors had asked for the completion date to be extended to September.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/queensferry-crossing-opening-delayed-for-a-second-time-1-4405543Completion of the £1.35 billion replacement for the Forth Road Bridge has been put back by "adverse weather conditions".
However, Mr Brown would not be drawn on reports that contractors had asked for the completion date to be extended to September.
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